Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Pink Eye]

Okay, seven hours in, a couple of restarts later. The first few hours I was kind of wishy washy about it. I liked the weather system, the music but sadly the writing seemed terrible.

And indeed these are the worst companions I've ever seen in an IE style game. It's really a pity because their models, animations and art are fantastic but they are written so flat and really feel soulless. The writing outside of the companions is perfect for the setting and sets the scene really nicely so it's a shame that this didn't carry over to a few of your cohorts. I got my hopes up at the introduction of Nassim but I guess that was just a fluke because he never did anything like that again. The undead elf was also a major disappointment as I really liked her concept, was hoping for a Kai from Lexx "the dead do not have feelings" thing. But oh well.

That said, as time passed something about the setup did draw me in hard, I grabbed a few mercenaries to water down the meh and it's starting to click. The "fight, loot, camp" loop is powerful and it feels good to be into a game like this again! Combat is so crunchy and the character building is as pornographic as everyone said.

Definitely going to get stuck into this one.

It's a hundred hour game, you're seven hours in. You haven't even met half the companions yet, let alone heard more than a fifth of the stories of the ones you have. Mercenaries are gimped. If you don't like those companions, there are more to come.

Might and Magic create your own party is fine. That's not how these games are designed to work. At least do one playthrough as designed so you can make an informed decision.

Sadly I hated the companions so much I opened up the wiki to check if there was any that interested me. Assuming this list is complete, I've read through their bios and they all seem terrible. And don't get me started about having an Evil aligned character and a Good aligned character as lovers, way to make the whole system a joke.

How are mercenaries gimped?

Mercs have a less stat buy than story companions. They also get a penalty for being advisors.

 

[Daidre]

How are mercenaries gimped?

They get penalty in Kingdom Management advisory positions but clearly superior in anything combat related due to customization. Less of stat buy than couple of companions but all this points is where you want them.

 

[AdamReith]

Mercs have a less stat buy than story companions. They also get a penalty for being advisors.

 

[Pink Eye]

Mercs have a less stat buy than story companions. They also get a penalty for being advisors.

Stick with the story companions. Their interactions amongst each other, is pretty fun to listen to.

 

[Daidre]

Mercs have a less stat buy than story companions. They also get a penalty for being advisors.

You can use mercs for combat and story chars for Kingdom Management. Also, starting pool of companions is a bit on the bland side, especially their initial dialogue trees. It is not as bad as it seems on first look, and chapter 2 companions is widely acclaimed as pretty cool.

 

[Pink Eye]

Oh yeah. The companions also act quite mature when assigned as advisors. Don't know if that would concern you, or not. Yet, I did enjoy how they acted when becoming advisors.

 

[AdamReith]

I realise it's early to write them off like I am, I just really hate it when characters info dump their back story and act really familiar for no reason to my character irregardless of the level of social retardation I'm "role playing".

I will heed thine advice once more RPGCodex and stick with them for a bit, maybe they'll click too given some time.

 

[Desiderius]

How are mercenaries gimped?

They get penalty in Kingdom Management advisory positions but clearly superior in anything combat related due to customization. Less of stat buy than couple of companions but all this points is where you want them.

It's not clear at all. Companions get boosts from their quests. Stats are cheap in any case and dumpstating isn't really a thing. Mercs are gimped full stop. You may not like it, but trying to make mercs happen isn't going to change it.

 

[Desiderius]

Sadly I hated the companions so much I opened up the wiki to check if there was any that interested me. Assuming this list is complete, I've read through their bios and they all seem terrible. And don't get me started about having an Evil aligned character and a Good aligned character as lovers, way to make the whole system a joke.

Sinners and tax collectors. You can influence them. Well, it can happen in game. If you're so quick to hate I doubt that would interest you.

 

[Pink Eye]

I realise it's early to write them off like I am, I just really hate it when characters info dump their back story and act really familiar for no reason to my character irregardless of the level of social retardation I'm "role playing".

I will heed thine advice once more RPGCodex and stick with them for a bit, maybe they'll click too given some time.

Yeah. I understand. For what's worth, you can influence them to act differently, through their quests, and when you talk to them.

 

[AdamReith]

Sadly I hated the companions so much I opened up the wiki to check if there was any that interested me. Assuming this list is complete, I've read through their bios and they all seem terrible. And don't get me started about having an Evil aligned character and a Good aligned character as lovers, way to make the whole system a joke.

Sinners and tax collectors. You can influence them. Well, it can happen in game. If you're so quick to hate I doubt that would interest you.

Hate is a strong word. I guess when everything else is, all things considered, pretty flawless the issues with the companions stick out in harsh relief. I mean they are in another league to the characters in for example PoE or Tyranny but certainly in chapter 1 there weren't any hooks to get me invested in them over a character I rolled myself.

 

[Trashos]

I realise it's early to write them off like I am, I just really hate it when characters info dump their back story and act really familiar for no reason to my character irregardless of the level of social retardation I'm "role playing".

I will heed thine advice once more RPGCodex and stick with them for a bit, maybe they'll click too given some time.

The writing is good, but it is going to take a while before it convinces you. I had similar thoughts as you at the beginning, but now (dozens of hours later, in Act 3), I have changed my mind. It takes a while to pick up, which is not our fault. But it is good.

That said, the companions, and especially the early companions, are the weakest side of it. I still can't stand Val and Amiri, even though Amiri's quest just became interesting.

My advice is: Stick to the companions, have the companions that you find fun replace the ones you don't like (my two favorite companions are met in Act 2), but do everyone's quests.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Amiri

Has her moments of dumb hilarity. Her VA does deliver.

 

[ArchAngel]

No matter what you think about others but Linzi is just the cutest..

Spoiler

except when she robs you :D

Spoiler

Or leaves you in endgame :D

 

[Pink Eye]

No matter what you think about others but Linzi is just the cutest..

Spoiler

except when she robs you :D

Spoiler

Or leaves you in endgame :D

I never understood that though. Why a damn book. WHY A BOOK! WHHHY! BEST BARD! A BOOK! Still pissed about that.

 

[ArchAngel]

No matter what you think about others but Linzi is just the cutest..

Spoiler

except when she robs you :D

Spoiler

Or leaves you in endgame :D

I never understood that though. Why a damn book. WHY A BOOK! WHHHY! BEST BARD! A BOOK! Still pissed about that.

In my first run of engame I had her in my party

Spoiler

and didn't really have a replacement for her heh. I got used to massive bonuses from Good Hope+Bard Song. I also multiclassed her into archer EK and she did very good damage. I had to take Ekun instead and while his ranged output was similar he had none of the party wide buffs she would provide

 

[Pink Eye]

No matter what you think about others but Linzi is just the cutest..

Spoiler

except when she robs you :D

Spoiler

Or leaves you in endgame :D

I never understood that though. Why a damn book. WHY A BOOK! WHHHY! BEST BARD! A BOOK! Still pissed about that.

In my first run of engame I had her in my party

Spoiler

and didn't really have a replacement for her heh. I got used to massive bonuses from Good Hope+Bard Song. I also multiclassed her into archer EK and she did very good damage. I had to take Ekun instead and while his ranged output was similar he had none of the party wide buffs she would provide

Yup.

Spoiler

Losing her crippled my first playthrough, as she was by far my best bard. She had access to all the good buffs and spells. It wasn't very fun losing her like that. I couldn't even get a replacement because I had grown so dependent on her. I mean how could I not? I used her through the whole game.

 

[Desiderius]

Sadly I hated the companions so much I opened up the wiki to check if there was any that interested me. Assuming this list is complete, I've read through their bios and they all seem terrible. And don't get me started about having an Evil aligned character and a Good aligned character as lovers, way to make the whole system a joke.

Sinners and tax collectors. You can influence them. Well, it can happen in game. If you're so quick to hate I doubt that would interest you.

Hate is a strong word. I guess when everything else is, all things considered, pretty flawless the issues with the companions stick out in harsh relief. I mean they are in another league to the characters in for example PoE or Tyranny but certainly in chapter 1 there weren't any hooks to get me invested in them over a character I rolled myself.

That’s fair in retrospect. All ch. 2 chars are very good.

 

[CoronerZg]

I kind of hate that some companions are forced upon you... I'm playing selfish no-nonsense evil MC and since Linzi picked team hobbit at the start of the game I left her in the Kobold prison and later told her to GTFO, but no, she's all funny and cute and won't leave and I can't do shit about her hanging around my throne room. And then she f...ing robs me and I STILL can't take her head off or at least banish her. Yay. And that everyone's favorite goblin at some point also got in the throne room saying I'm sitting on his throne so I told my guards to hang him and yet he is still alive and well, just chilling outside. And the game is generally pretty good at letting me play the way I want - I even hanged that dwarf artisan for making demands cause I didn't know about artisans and the cool items they make for you... and he's of course not well and chilling outside (well okay, technically, he is chilling outside )

 

[Desiderius]

No matter what you think about others but Linzi is just the cutest..

Spoiler

except when she robs you :D

Spoiler

Or leaves you in endgame :D

I never understood that though. Why a damn book. WHY A BOOK! WHHHY! BEST BARD! A BOOK! Still pissed about that.

In my first run of engame I had her in my party

Spoiler

and didn't really have a replacement for her heh. I got used to massive bonuses from Good Hope+Bard Song. I also multiclassed her into archer EK and she did very good damage. I had to take Ekun instead and while his ranged output was similar he had none of the party wide buffs she would provide

Yup.

Spoiler

Losing her crippled my first playthrough, as she was by far my best bard. She had access to all the good buffs and spells. It wasn't very fun losing her like that. I couldn't even get a replacement because I had grown so dependent on her. I mean how could I not? I used her through the whole game.

This game is Revenge of the Bard.

EK isn’t very good because you’re still stuck with slow spell progression and you lose song DC and the good high level songs. She can do damage fine on routine fights as a straight Bard. On hard fights she should be casting anyway.

 

[Desiderius]

I kind of hate that some companions are forced upon you... I'm playing selfish no-nonsense evil MC and since Linzi picked team hobbit at the start of the game I left her in the Kobold prison and later told her to GTFO, but no, she's all funny and cute and won't leave and I can't do shit about her hanging around my throne room. And then she f...ing robs me and I STILL can't take her head off or at least banish her. Yay. And that everyone's favorite goblin at some point also got in the throne room saying I'm sitting on his throne so I told my guards to hang him and yet he is still alive and well, just chilling outside. And the game is generally pretty good at letting me play the way I want - I even hanged that dwarf artisan for making demands cause I didn't know about artisans and the cool items they make for you... and he's of course not well and chilling outside (well okay, technically, he is chilling outside )

Selfish Evil people are all about forcing themselves and their shit on everyone else.

Suck it up, buttercup.

 

[Desiderius]

Dorf Relic Helm casts Good Hope and there are several wands.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Two more questions for +1,5K hours playas:

1. What's the selling point of an archaeologist? I see it mentioned a lot, but it seems kinda sucky compared to vanilla bard?
2. In your opinion, what would be the best base class for duelist? Sword saint?

 

[Desiderius]

Two more questions for +1,5K hours playas:

1. What's the selling point of an archaeologist? I see it mentioned a lot, but it seems kinda sucky compared to vanilla bard?
2. In your opinion, what would be the best base class for duelist? Sword saint?

1. Trickery per level, can take ten on Trickery checks, including ones for half mil EXP. Uncanny Dodge at lvl 2, Evasion later, Luck stacks with most everything. It’s not Archaeologist or Bard, it’s and.

Class is currently bugged since Archaeologists Luck doesn’t linger.

2. SS is a busted class, Duelist is overkill. Unfortunately both Duelist and Swordlord lose out to opportunity cost.

You could take some levels of Duelist on Eldritch Scoundrel to give you some extra AC and damage, but probably not worth it. I’ve tried to make Parry/Riposte work and it’s too much trouble for what you get.

Parry only triggers on an attack that would otherwise hit, which makes Riposte pretty bad but could theoretically stop you* getting hit even on Nat 20s if you can get your AB up high enough.

* - or someone else with Parry (other) at another minus 4.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Pardon monsieur, but what does "busted class" mean exactly? Yeah, eldritch scoundrel was my second bet, sneak attack is so hilariously op that taking a class without it seems like you're gimping yourself.