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The Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition - Obsidian's first-person sci-fi RPG set in a corporate space colony

toro

Arcane
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Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,077
Btw before anyone starts taking CohhCarnage too seriously and giving him too much credit for liking inclined RPGs like Elex, Pathfinder or Greedfall:



"MEA is one of my favourite Mass Effects. It combines the great world of the original trilogy with pioneering spirit of the old Star Trek. I loved the characters, I loved the story. The only thing preventing MEA to be my GOTY were the animations."

So yeah, this guy is basically a high-functioning idiot.


We agree to disagree.

Cohh is a smart cunt. Of course his taste is shit but the guy earns more than codex combined because he sucks corporate dick.

So, don't confuse natural retardation with intended retardation. After all, it's a victimless crime, nobody dies because MEA sold more copies.
 

Riddler

Arcane
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Messages
2,354
Bubbles In Memoria
Why would completion rates be low, when even here most people can't seem to be able to quit?

I mean, judging by the last 50 pages, the internal monologue of TOW's biggest haters looks like this:


This is so bad.
You've gained a new level!
Why is everything so vapid?
You've opened a new container!
I don't want to play this anymore.
You've gained a new level!
I need to stop playing this.
You've opened a new container!
What is happening to me?
You've gained a new level!
FUCK THIS GAME!
You've opened a new container!
FUCK OBSIDIAN, FEARGUS AND MICROSOFT
You've gained a new level!
FUCK THIS GAY EARTH!
You've opened a new container!

The gameplay loop never really gives you time to breathe, let alone stop playing. Although I suspect all the lootwhoring is going to become intensely irritating during subsequent runs.


You haven't noticed the obsessive nature of the commentariat here?
 

cvv

Arcane
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Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
We agree to disagree.

Cohh is a smart cunt. Of course his taste is shit but the guy earns more than codex combined because he sucks corporate dick.

So, don't confuse natural retardation with intended retardation. After all, it's a victimless crime, nobody dies because MEA sold more copies.

I have seen many of his videos, I know his schtick. He does stroke corporate dick but only gently. He's not robotically praising everything, he does say things like "it's not entirely my cup of tea but if you like XYZ you'll love it". THAT's something smart cunts say, yes.

But saying Andromeda is one of his favourite ME games, that the writing is phenomenal and the only problem with the game are the animations crosses the line of smart cuntery into the territory of genuine retardery.
 

Seethe

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Messages
967
Tools of capital cannot criticize capitalism, they can only set up a caricature of it which they can attack. SJWs are the SocDems of today in terms of ideological incoherence and lack of self awareness.

If you participate in a capitalist society due to being born in it, or in a capitalist system due to a lack of other options, it means you cannot criticize capitalism, got it. The people who wrote this game aren't executives or shareholders. Just grunts who took their freedom to make a caricature of capitalism. Why is this a problem exactly? You think that everyone who has a job now is a capitalist that lacks self awareness because they hate capitalism? That's some galaxy brain shit right there.

50 pages in post release, and snowflake libertarians/ancaps still foaming at the mouth and spouting retarded shit. The roles in the triggering culture have switched. Some of you were foaming at the mouth due to Jim Sterling's video, and the reasons were mainly chimp noises. It's called having an opinion, snowflakes.
 
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Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,485
Location
California
Me: I'm not entirely convinced, how bout I give you an interview

Felix: uhhh ok

Me: What's the value of pi?

Felix: Ummmm...it's delicious?

TBfgUrq.png
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
17,900
Location
大同
Tools of capital cannot criticize capitalism, they can only set up a caricature of it which they can attack. SJWs are the SocDems of today in terms of ideological incoherence and lack of self awareness.

If you participate in a capitalist society, or in a capitalist system due to a lack of other options, it means you cannot criticize capitalism. Got it. The people who wrote this game aren't executives or shareholders. Just grunts who took their freedom to make a caricature of capitalism. Why is this a problem exactly?
As far as the game is concerned, there is no problem. The quality of the setting speaks for itself.

Now as far as a critique of capitalism is concerned, Marxists were participating in the system, including some in high socio-economic standing (up to the likes of Marx himself and Engels which many liberashkas like to bring up). The problem with Social Democrats is that they were not proposing a different solution to the issue of capitalism (as were Fascist Syndicalists and Corporatists), but instead betraying the revolutionary idea in favor of rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's - accepting the capitalist status quo and renouncing not the practical viability of revolution (as were plenty of Marxists either by choosing to pragmatically stay on the sidelines or simply out of political impotency), but the castration of political Marxism itself by renouncing revolution itself and eliminating it from the doctrine of socialism. If you are a SocDem, you aren't a socialist; you are simply a liberal that is either pragmatic and wants to avoid the proles and peasants getting too uppity or a bleeding heart faggot such as the modern SJWs and champagne socialists.
 
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Anthedon

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Messages
4,510
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
No pressure is necessary. Writing in general is becoming a pink-collar profession in the West, and there are aspects of video game writing that probably make it particularly suitable to women (lots of "secretarial" fill-in-the-blank tasks as opposed to stream of consciousness writing, lots of collaboration and teamwork, etc).
What?

Helen Hindpere wrote a lot of Disco Elysium and her work is top.

64466380_2397460087149122_1085888734542430208_n.jpg




:love:

Downright normal looking people writing my video games? What?!


Inb4 redheads are not people.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,806
https://www.pcgamer.com/disco-elysium-has-ruined-the-outer-worlds-for-me/

It's hard to go back from that to "[Persuade] Please let me have more money for the quest I did" straight away. OK, so The Outer Worlds is better written than that, but the function of skill checks in dialogue is largely to get out of fights or get extra cash, and often your choices will have no bearing on conversations at all. Any insight you get will probably be freely offered moments later. Conversations, then, feel like they're on rails, and while you can pretend that your character has a personality and certain traits, it's rare that the game will acknowledge that beyond some throwaway dialogue options. It's like nobody is listening to me—my worst fear, aside from spiders.
To be honest with all of you, I'm reading this thread out of morbid curiosity rather than a genuine interest in TOW. This article is interesting though, and I think it paints a picture of my and others malaise towards games like TOW. It isn't a feeling unique to OEs newest creation though.

I thought it was funny that, in the middle of the article while the author was comparin'n'contrastin' the two titles, the reader is treated to a screenshot of DE and then of TOW. DE is, obviously, isometric but also contains those painterly qualities and the specific image is fairly well framed. In contrast, the TOW image just screams MONSTER!!! at 11, done in the style of what appears to be a 12 year old's imagination.

rJJzzCGUpYpxra7sPearZk.jpg
It's kitchen-sink++ design, especially with the poor overly-saturated color palette. So my hat is off to PCG, that article was surprisingly truthful, and reflects a very codexian point of view, if not diplomatically. As diplomatically as a codexian PoV could be represented, at least.

edit: typos
 

Bad Sector

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Messages
2,224
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
My sense is that the developers who perform tasks associated with "area design" in the past would have also done the writing for those areas. Professional game development have evolved towards separating and specializing those roles.
Isn't that inherently connected with said areas becoming 3d, thus requiring professional graphic artists with actual modelling skills and understanding, instead of writers just dropping general ideas about an isometric area. Verticality and traversability are no longer as banal as they used to be.

Not really, in both cases the designers would use prefabricated modular pieces - for 2D games it would be tiles and sprites, for 3D games it would be static meshes and other prefabs. Though of course it largely depends on the studio, engine and their workflow. In some games the area designers use prefabs/meshes/etc directly (e.g. Bethesda does that, they have made detailed presentations about how they build their worlds at recent GDCs) whereas in other games the area designers use editor primitives (boxes, brushes, etc) to block out the area before giving them to environment artists. In either case (and in 2D case too), the environment artists are those who will do the artwork, not the area designers.

Also FWIW most 2D games mentioned around here (Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment, Arcanum, etc) also used 3D modelling and needed those skills.

And IMO the verticality in most 3D games, especially (A)RPGs, isn't that special anyway. In TOW almost everything is a single floor, with some things (mainly individual houses) being two floors. There might be some with more but i can't think of any right now.
 

Bad Sector

Arcane
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Also two things i didn't notice anyone mentioning before about TOW compared to FNV that are missing from TOW are the NPC's equipped items and... grimaces :-P.

The former is really a thing FNV inherited from Bethesda's engine from back when they actually put some effort in it (i mean Morrowind) but i always liked how whenever i killed someone in FNV i can take their actual equipment instead of whatever random drop the game feels like giving me and when i did take their clothes and/or weapons those would disappear from the NPC's body.

The latter is also something Bethesda's engine has (since Oblivion IIRC) but more importantly it is also something they (Tim and Leonard) had in VtMB: when you are talking with someone, their feelings towards you affects their facial animations (it can be a bit comical how these switch from happy to angry almost instantly but i think nowadays we have the technology for blending facial animations :-P). Of course this also assumes the game keeps track of such feelings (though if nothing else they could use your overall standing with the faction/company of whoever you are talking to).

Both aren't really big things (especially the second one), but they are still things that previous games (in the same subgenre even) made by people who worked on TOW already did. Though unlike other things that i think FVN/VtMB did better (like having interesting characters) these are things that most likely are affected by their available budget.
 

DalekFlay

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New Vegas


Short but sweet insights into one of the settings main problems. Lack of depth beyond corporations bad. There's hints at more... religion, order versus chaos, etc... but I haven't seen much really developed in 20 hours. Also the idea of a corporate run world feeling more like communism than anarchy. Shadowrun does this stuff much better.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,773
And he's just a part of tradition that goes back to the antiquity, because throughout history most writers were independently wealthy sheltered aristocrats, or at the very least, middle-class well educated upstarts. People with " rough life experience" didn't write fancy novels because they had fields to plow.

But anyway, let's go back to discussing how real writer needs to fight in a war and wrestle bears.

It is puzzling how middle class writers have become so terrible recently. It's not limited to games either, it's a decline that covers all media.

I thought Fenstermaker was the one with control over hiring decisions. Care to weigh in Roguey ?

Back when Fenstermaker worked there, only people who could get along with him were hired, yes.
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
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大同
I've got an entire fucking spreadsheet with everyone in here and their disparaging comments about TOW listed and am eagerly awaiting the release of Cyberpunk 2077 to cross check the list for inconsistencies, cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy.

You are on notice.
Duly noted, lad.
 

Nano

Arcane
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Joined
Mar 6, 2016
Messages
4,649
Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In
Your post was absolutely on point, Riddler. What I personally have trouble understanding is that important members of the current writing team were hired while MCA was still there. It is really-really hard for me to understand how he let that happen.
Carrie is Avellone-approved and she's one of the few Obsidian folk he still follows on Twitter.
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
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The land of ice and snow.
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Correct me if I'm wrong but the way I see it is that the financial success of TOW is mostly due to:

1. slow releases right now

2. anti-Bethesda current right now due to F76 being complete and utter garbage.

Is anyone/game critic with a balanced mind and clear rhetoric actually endorsing this game?
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,167
Well I finished it. Short review is this: Outer Worlds is a burger made of high quality ingredients, but chef forgot to add seasoning. It also makes zero excuses for being a burger, which is why I ended up liking it more than both Pillars, they aimed for the Michelin star only to end up undercooked.

One thing I gotta praise is that the game stays remarkably loyal to its advertised formula. I ended up clocking 26 hours, completionist run wouldn't take more than 30. Small amount of content in a $60 RPG was always going to be controversial, but throughout the game Obsidian avoids the temptation to add some cheap filler content. They stick to making well-crafted levels with multiple approaches and reactivity in the quests. There's something to commend about the game that is 30 hours long but stays consistent, focused and comes out polished and finished on launch. Josh could learn a thing or two about scope control from Tim and Leon.

Overall most of the game is done well, but two biggest offenders dragging it down are loot and writing. Loot is simply horrendous and made worse by the game constantly throwing trucks of items at you. Just sorting through that shit makes you want to find a different hobby. Writing has some high points, but most of the time it lacks flavor, fails to establish the factions, fails to flesh out the setting and memorable characters and quests are rare.

The biggest strength is the core gameplay - level design, exploration and C&C are excellent, and combat while not great, is enjoyable enough at the start and becomes more enjoyable throughout the game when some of the more funky items and abilities start opening up. It's certainly a Troika game in terms of gameplay - quest and world structures are similar to Fallout 1, there are Tim Cain's trademark hilariously broken abilities and weapons, and there's a traditional sneaker/talker/fighter gameplay triad.

After Pillars 1, 2 and now TOW, I think we can conclude that this is entirely new Obsidian we're dealing with. They became famous for games where everything was shit except for the writing, but with these last 3 games they've done a complete 180 turn. They've became a developer that is technically competent and makes games that look good, run well, launch without a million bugs, area and interior designers make some gorgeous looking locations, but the writing just isn't there anymore.

I wouldn't go as far as to call it a drastic decline. They've improved as a company in many ways and every once in a while it's fun to take off my top hat and eat a burger. But the old Obsidian is gone and the real innovation in the genre is coming out of indies these days. And perhaps that's how it should be.
 
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