Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

The PS5 and Xbox 2 thread - it's happening

soulburner

Cipher
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
809
Makabb - the power of the PS5 only means one thing for certain. When PC versions come out, they have higher draw distances, better SSAO/HBAO, higher resolution shadows, proper antialiasing, ability to run at 60 Hz and up instead of 30 with drops... and stuff like that. PS5 and Scarlett will now be able to have games that are pretty much on par with the PC editions. And this is huge for console users.

Bad PC ports will still come, which will perform poorer than current bad ports. Good ports will most likely have higher requirements (how much - we'll see) on a PC equivalent.

Although I *think* the RDNA GPU in the new consoles will be a newer generation than the current RX5700 boards, there's also both Nvidia and AMD releasing new GPUs in 2020, even before the consoles' release. I expect cards such as RX5700 to drop in price in the coming months and replace the current low/middle end things like an RX570 or GTX1060. Even if the new consoles get prettier games with greater performance than their PC ports, the PC will not lag behind for too long... aaaand PC gamers who currently have strong GPUs and CPUs (like an RX5700 or, I don't know, an RTX2080 paired with at least a 6 core i5 or Ryzen) should be able to sleep well and not worry about it (but bad ports ;)).
 
Last edited:

commie

The Last Marxist
Patron
Joined
May 12, 2010
Messages
1,865,249
Location
Where one can weep in peace
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Next-gen shaping up to be a real game changer - ......3d audio......
Exciting. :shittydog:

Wow 3D audio in games! Welcome to 1996!

Aureal_A3D_%28logo%29.png
 

DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
- the architectural differences between the consoles and PC (low latency and fast 8 GB HBM is not a negligible thing) will cause a situation when many games will run slower on a similarly configured PC (let's say, a Ryzen 3700 and an RX5700), even if coded "right"
- additionally, the inability of programmers to properly code games for the PC (even though DX12 on the Xbox is not that different to DX12 on the PC, coders will still have a weird amnesia and make a DX11 renderer instead) will increase the gap between consoles and PC even further. Bad ports will become "badder", at least during the first months of the consoles' lives

This is spot-on, and has been true of the last few console generations where most games have been multi-platform. There's a lot of grey area though, as you suggest, which makes coming up with a general rule pretty impossible. If a console version runs at 30fps you might be able to turn some things down and run at 60 if you want. If the console version tries to achieve 4k native and sacrifices framerate or draw-distance maybe you can play at 1440p and see trees for miles. That's something the "herp derp PC has bad frame pacing" people don't understand about PC gaming: it's a varied experience depending not only on your rig and the game, but also your priorities. The consoles will do certain things better for a year or so, until nVidia and AMD release new cards, but they'll also do some things worse depending on your priorities and rig, and over time they'll start doing everything worse quite quickly.

It's been the same story for what... 15 years now? And yet every time we have forum debates like this one and clickbait articles about the failures of PC, because that's the world we live in. Meanwhile most people are console gamers or PC gamers and couldn't care less.
 
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
4,092
Wow 3D audio in games! Welcome to 1996!

Aureal_A3D_%28logo%29.png
The depressing thing is that Creative managed to single handedly kill 3D audio, since they bought out all the competition and made a monopoly with their own EAX, then got blacklisted by Microsoft since their terrible drivers and software were behind a lot of the instability of Windows Vista.
 

Makabb

Arcane
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
11,753
Last Of us 2 has been delayed to spring, they probably want to show it earlier on the ps5 event to showcase differences in ps4 and ps5 .
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
11,922
Wow 3D audio in games! Welcome to 1996!

Aureal_A3D_%28logo%29.png
The depressing thing is that Creative managed to single handedly kill 3D audio, since they bought out all the competition and made a monopoly with their own EAX, then got blacklisted by Microsoft since their terrible drivers and software were behind a lot of the instability of Windows Vista.
And thanks to Creative the audio technology in games is mostly on the same level as it was 20 years ago, except you can now have 256 sounds at the same time instead of 64.
It is the perfect example of why lack of competition is bad.
 
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 20, 2017
Messages
4,092
I really hope 3D audio makes a comeback next gen just so it can trickle down to PC. AMD made an attempt many years ago with Trueaudio which never really went anywhere, Nvidia had a few tech demos with 3D audio and now they're allowing RTX cores to be put to use for 3D audio in VR, but the boost that consoles will make will be the only thing that could make it something developers have to take serious. There's a lot of games with depressing audio processing out there.

(Funny that competition is good until it's Steam vs Epic, but that's something for another thread.)
 

Makabb

Arcane
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
11,753
New GPU info, it will be 'big navi', RDNA 2 that releases in 2020, better than expected, PS5 will have a top end card :dance:


https://wccftech.com/new-amd-gpu-spotted-rra-big-navi/

How did he made the leap that this chip will be in the consoles, for all he knows this is 5800/XT.

Because the current navi (5700) has no ray tracing.... so it's pretty logical that next lineup of cards from AMD will have ray tracing as PS5 has ray tracing, so it must have the 'big navi', if AMD will release it 6 months from now, that's just in time for PS5 announcement.
 
Last edited:

BlackAdderBG

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
3,045
Location
Little Vienna
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
How does he knows that this chip will have a ray tracing? How is the logic flowing with this article- AMD registered a chip in korea-> this guy already know it's for consoles and supports tracing :roll:.
 

Makabb

Arcane
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
11,753
How does he knows that this chip will have a ray tracing? How is the logic flowing with this article- AMD registered a chip in korea-> this guy already know it's for consoles and supports tracing :roll:.

He is speculating, but if there is no ray tracing GPU from AMD currently and PS5 will release in late 2020 and this will come in 2h 2020, they have to make one, otherwise AMD wouldn't have ray tracing which is confirmed to be in ps5 by Sony.

And if it has ray tracing, it will be also in ps5, because it will be the first AMD gpu with ray tracing, but no other AMD gpu has ray tracing.

So most likely he is correct.
 

Achilles

Arcane
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
3,425
This thread will be a fun read in a year. Makabb will be enjoying his cinematic 20 fps while trying to convince himself that he's having a premium experience.
 

soulburner

Cipher
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
809
Well, I suspected the PS5 and Scarlett will have a newer revision of the RDNA architecture from the very beginning. From planning to manufacturing - it takes a bit of time. PC users got RDNA 1.0 in the form of the 5700 cards, the consoles might have something like RDNA 1.0b or RDNA 1.1 - even if their dev kits are already available for a while, they could be slightly more advanced than what was already released for the PC.

It is unclear how ray tracing will be implemented. Will it be in the form of additional transistors specialized in that form of calculations, like in Nvidia's RTX cards, or will it be just overgrown shaders, being capable of only something similar to what Crytek showed in their demo, which did not use RTX cores and ran more or less fine on Vega. So for ray traced reflections here and there, and maybe a nice light bouncing off of surfaces in some areas - that's possible without "RT" cores.

Releases such as Quake 2 RTX, which use "full" ray tracing, not just for a few reflections, show that this process is very computationally expensive. Quake 2 is simple, there aren't many polygons out there. I imagine nobody is even teasing something more modern, because it runs like shit. I suspect somebody, somewhere began experimenting with the Doom 3 source code to implement full ray tracing and pretty much left it for later, better times, because no graphic card can handle it today.
 

Makabb

Arcane
Shitposter Bethestard
Joined
Sep 19, 2014
Messages
11,753
God of programming John Carmack himself descended to finaly put rest to the console and pc conondrum

'For the same given paper spec, a console will deliver twice the perf of a PC, and a PC will deliver twice the perf of a mobile part'

So if PS 5 will have a 3.2 ghz Zen 2 and a RTX 2080 performance and 16gb ram, you will need double the PC specs, that would be a over 6ghz CPU that does not exist a 30 Tflop vidya card and 32gb ram..... that's why I've been saying that PC will be choking on PS5 ports.


https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/436012673243693056
 

taxalot

I'm a spicy fellow.
Patron
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
9,613
Location
Your wallet.
Codex 2013 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
God of programming John Carmack himself descended to finaly put rest to the console and pc conondrum

'For the same given paper spec, a console will deliver twice the perf of a PC, and a PC will deliver twice the perf of a mobile part'

So if PS 5 will have a 3.2 ghz Zen 2 and a RTX 2080 performance and 16gb ram, you will need double the PC specs, that would be a over 6ghz CPU that does not exist a 30 Tflop vidya card and 32gb ram..... that's why I've been saying that PC will be choking on PS5 ports.


https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/436012673243693056


John Carmack has been irrelevant for years. And his last performance on the Joe Rogan show was a strong argument of why he should stay clear of gaming companies.

Current consoles have weak CPU. Check CPU usage while playing your favorite game : it's a fraction of it. While consoles benefit optimizations, they are currently far less than what they used to be.
 

soulburner

Cipher
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Messages
809
God of programming John Carmack himself descended to finaly put rest to the console and pc conondrum

'For the same given paper spec, a console will deliver twice the perf of a PC, and a PC will deliver twice the perf of a mobile part'

So if PS 5 will have a 3.2 ghz Zen 2 and a RTX 2080 performance and 16gb ram, you will need double the PC specs, that would be a over 6ghz CPU that does not exist a 30 Tflop vidya card and 32gb ram..... that's why I've been saying that PC will be choking on PS5 ports.


https://twitter.com/id_aa_carmack/status/436012673243693056
This Carmack's post is from 2014, no matter if John himself is still relevant or not, this quote isn't. 2014 was way before both Vulkan/DX12 released and AMD Mantle was in its infancy. All of these APIs main goal was to reduce driver overhead and be a little closer to the metal. With DX12 and Vulkan available today the gap between consoles and PC is a lot, lot smaller than in 2014. Additionally, in 2014 we barely had PC games that could utilize more than 2 cores - more recent games on the PC have much better multithread optimization, often performing best with a 6+ threaded CPU, while still using DX11 as their rendering path.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom