Incline Chris Avellone Appreciation Station

[Bester]

Of course they all lost it. They sold it. And got a lot of money for it too.

MCA could've sold it, but he wasn't owner anymore.

 

[Sukhāvatī]

Back in 90's a PC Zone (popular English game magazine, Charlie Brooker maker of Black Mirror started there) editor tried to start scoring games more realistically with a five being average etc. Think it lasted a couple of issues and shortly after bloke got shitcanned. Don't think its journalists only favouring scoring scale.

Yeah, to give credit where it's due, Angry Joe actually uses the proper 5 = average metric. He's the biggest videogame personality that does so afaik.

 

[Squid]

Back in 90's a PC Zone (popular English game magazine, Charlie Brooker maker of Black Mirror started there) editor tried to start scoring games more realistically with a five being average etc. Think it lasted a couple of issues and shortly after bloke got shitcanned. Don't think its journalists only favouring scoring scale.

Yeah, to give credit where it's due, Angry Joe actually uses the proper 5 = average metric. He's the biggest veideogame personality that does so afaik.

I respect that he's fairly more honest than other reviewers even though his opinions and my opinions don't jive. He seems mostly consistent with what to expect from him, he still uses an older style of humor for his videos that makes it feel corny in the current year, but hell he is straight up about shit. I'd rather hear a solid honest opinion than a "oh please don't take away my review copies for your next game" opinion.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

nd also mentioned an Icewind Dale short story for WOTC, which is news to me.

Did he ever actually do this?

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

It isn't surprising how quickly written sample dialogues are worse than what we got in the fully developed game, yet it's nonetheless exciting to peek into Avellone work in progress. It would be so much fun to look through few different drafts of the same dialogues he had written, from the first draft to the final version. I assume you don't have anything like that in your collection?

 

[The Great ThunThun*]

Men, my appreciation of MCA went through the roof when I recently learned that he wrote the Targos docks of IWD2. That entire first sequence is probably the best IE game encounter design. Like ever. I used to think that this was Josh and gave him credit for it, even grudgingly. Thankfully, I do not have to do that anymore. Thanks again, Fairfax .

 

[Fairfax]

nd also mentioned an Icewind Dale short story for WOTC, which is news to me.

Did he ever actually do this?

Yes. https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...hris-avellone-icewind-dale-short-story.99836/

Men, my appreciation of MCA went through the roof when I recently learned that he wrote the Targos docks of IWD2. That entire first sequence is probably the best IE game encounter design. Like ever. I used to think that this was Josh and gave him credit for it, even grudgingly. Thankfully, I do not have to do that anymore. Thanks again, Fairfax .

MCA worked on other areas as well. Here's the complete list:

I tried to find out who designed each area in IWD2. Old interviews and Roguey's review had most of it, but some were still unknown. Thanks to Chris Avellone, here's the complete list with what he remembers (plus some comments):

• Targos – Avellone (Steve Bokkes did the initial area summary, inc. summaries of characters, then I did a lot of the content after he quit to go to Troika, I think – I added a lot of characters, wartime quests, and turned the opening area into a fight zone to get to the action quicker)
• Shaengarne - Deiley
• Horde Fortress - Foletto, Parker
• Western Pass and Glacier - Holloway
• Ice Temple - Holloway
• Wandering Village and Fell Wood - Maldonado
• Black Raven Monastery - Maldonado
• Underdark and Citadel - Maldonado
• Kuldahar – Avellone (Josh did initial area summary, he didn’t have time to finish, so I fleshed it all out)
• Chult - Avellone, Deiley(?) (Josh may have done initial area summary, he didn’t have time to finish, so I worked on it – Deiley may have helped, I honestly can’t recall – Deiley was doing a lot of work across the project, he was a workhorse just like on Fallout 2).
• Dragon's Eye - Holloway
• Fields of Slaughter - Foletto
• Severed Hand and Endgame - Foletto, Deiley

Other info:

Severed Hand could've been a bit different:

However, when I got assigned to work with a fellow designer (John Deiley) on IWD2’s end game area, Severed Hand, I let loose my chains (as much as I could) and tried to be as freewheeling as possible. Originally, I wanted the player to have the option of not only siding with the evil god, Iyachtu Xvim, but also taking over Severed Hand and using its power to overtake the Ten Towns for themselves. Unfortunately, this was a bit too ambitious for our very tight schedule, so you got what shipped instead – a very slight nod to evil options. Some people thought Severed Hand was too spread out and not “actiony” enough, others really liked all the different quests and options they had while exploring Severed Hand. I can’t please everyone, but I’m really proud how Severed Hand turned out given the very restricted amount of time we had to flesh it out.

Maldonado was used to PS:T's IE code, which is why he struggled with his areas a bit. [thanks, Roguey]

A lot of the coherency issues came to light relatively late in the project, when we started doing extensive playthroughs. By that time, we could recognize that there were problems, but we didn't have time to overhaul the areas. For example, Targos and Shaengarne and the Ice Temple all feel very different and had many different problems during the course of development. It probably would have taken a long time to get those three areas to feel "right" and to better establish the story and characters in them.

Areas like the Fell Wood and Black Raven Monastery were the victims of vision exceeding grasp -- not because Dave made bad inherently bad designs, but because he kept running into engine and scripting limitations. There were aspects of the engine with which he was familiar on PS:T that were different in IWD2's code base, but he often didn't realize the difference until he had put a certain amount of time and effort into going down a particular path. He was disappointed with how he wound up having to implement those areas.

Chris thought the Mortuary was too slow and didn't have enough combat, which he corrected in Targos:

The beginning is very slow and exposition-heavy, and I don't think that helps get the player into the mystery of his character. This is something I tried to correct in future opening levels of Black Isle games (notably Icewind Dale 2, where you're in trouble the moment you step off the boat in Targos).

Examine pacing and expectations. As an example, Torment was an extremely dialogue heavy game, and I do believe (I can hear pitchforks and torches being gathered) it could have benefited from more dungeon exploration, more combats, in addition to the dialogue depth it had. I tried to correct that when doing Targos in IWD2… I started off with a lot of fights and exploration rewards that immediately highlighted the threat the city was facing, then moved into dialogues (punctuated by a few fights), then a blast-off at the end.

 

[Nano]

Agree to disagree. The Mortuary was one of my favorite areas in Torment. Probably because of the slowness, but also because of how 'intimate' it felt (just you and Morte for the most part, skeletons and zombies aside).

 

[Squid]

Agree to disagree. The Mortuary was one of my favorite areas in Torment. Probably because of the slowness, but also because of how 'intimate' it felt (just you and Morte for the most part, skeletons and zombies aside).

Dude, having to stitch up like a zombie and not run anywhere or do something to give away that I wasn't a zombie was insanely NEAT. When I did that, I knew I was playing something special.

 

[DeepOcean]

Agree to disagree. The Mortuary was one of my favorite areas in Torment. Probably because of the slowness, but also because of how 'intimate' it felt (just you and Morte for the most part, skeletons and zombies aside).

Dude, having to stitch up like a zombie and not run anywhere or do something to give away that I wasn't a zombie was insanely NEAT. When I did that, I knew I was playing something special.

Even better is to only discover that after playing the game 3 times.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

 

[Ezeekiel]

Agree to disagree. The Mortuary was one of my favorite areas in Torment. Probably because of the slowness, but also because of how 'intimate' it felt (just you and Morte for the most part, skeletons and zombies aside).

I really liked the morbid art with the dissected corpses and Ei-Vene working on one as a way to create an alien world rather than a real horror aspect etc.
When I first played the game, I was completely unfamiliar with the Planescape setting and thus ended up expecting the whole thing to be so morbid and strange... Still waiting for games which embrace that sort of thing as a major part of their setting without devolving into cringy hollywood-horror garbage.

That floor you wake up on is probably one of my fav areas in a game for atmosphere purposes.

 

[MRY]

Chris praying that the principals at Obsidian would lose their ownership and that being accomplished via Microsoft making them multi-millionaires with their names attached to the first really successful original IP Obsidian has produced is definitely a monkey paw kind of prayer. Still, dark clouds and silver linings.

 

[Average Manatee]

Agree to disagree. The Mortuary was one of my favorite areas in Torment. Probably because of the slowness, but also because of how 'intimate' it felt (just you and Morte for the most part, skeletons and zombies aside).

Agree, but then I also agree that Targos is a great starting area. IWD2 could really have done with one or two more areas like it to break up the dungeon crawling between Targos and the Hand. The Mortuary does a good job of showcasing what PS:T is about while Targos unfortunately doesn't do the same for IWD2.

 

[Riddler]

How did we go from this:

To that non-ass having shit in the poster.. Top 10 anime betrayals for sure.

 

[Roguey]

Time for the Depreciation Station

https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1198531172029980672

I take it you've already binged all of the new season? :D

I cannot unless my wife allows it, for she loves the series as well.

Doesn't even live in the same city as his wife, but she refuses to let him watch a new show unless she's watching with him. *sound of a whipcrack*

https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/status/1198539199911100416

Uh, but this is NOT endorsement of the shitty "fake news" philosophy, which makes me vomit. Just saying this? Is untrue, Cthulhu has a bar tab, and he needs to pay up, son.

"The mainstream media would never lie to me. It makes me physically ill to even consider the possibility!"--this guy right here

 

[Nano]

Doesn't even live in the same city as his wife

This is an odd arrangement. Hope it's working out well for them.

Edit: why are you guys rating this Funny? I'm serious.

 

[Sentinel]

Damn. Don't get married folks. That's some scary shit.

 

[Desiderius]

Damn. Don't get married folks. That's some scary shit.

More resources for the rest of us selfish genes, sucka!

 

[Darkzone]

Time for the Depreciation Station

I take it you've already binged all of the new season? :D

I cannot unless my wife allows it, for she loves the series as well.

Doesn't even live in the same city as his wife, but she refuses to let him watch a new show unless she's watching with him. *sound of a whipcrack*

Uh, but this is NOT endorsement of the shitty "fake news" philosophy, which makes me vomit. Just saying this? Is untrue, Cthulhu has a bar tab, and he needs to pay up, son.

"The mainstream media would never lie to me. It makes me physically ill to even consider the possibility!"--this guy right here

Since when are you going against the "woke" narratives?
In the first case he might be making jokes, because he wants to watch the series with his wife. The second case is not so good and would explain his decline. Fuck.

 

[Trashos]

Eh, when you are married, you jump onto every opportunity to watch something with your wife (when it happens to appeal to both). It is the least you can do (which is probably why you are doing it -EZ points).

 

[Desiderius]

Eh, when you are married, you jump onto every opportunity to watch something with your wife (when it happens to appeal to both). It is the least you can do (which is probably why you are doing it -EZ points).

Your job is to be the points judge for you both, not her. She'd rather not.

 

[Trashos]

I highly doubt that. Don't you ever get those "Remember that one time when you didn't do that thing I wanted you to do" talks? If I can partially avoid that, I am jumping on the opportunity.

For big picture decisions, I agree with you.

 

[Alpan]

I highly doubt that. Don't you ever get those "Remember that one time when you didn't do that thing I wanted you to do" talks? If I can partially avoid that, I am jumping on the opportunity.

For big picture decisions, I agree with you.

Yeah, I imagine this stuff really is the ultimate in C&C: Subtle, life-altering, and you don't get the consequences until ten years later when she finally wants a divorce.

 

[Desiderius]

I highly doubt that. Don't you ever get those "Remember that one time when you didn't do that thing I wanted you to do" talks? If I can partially avoid that, I am jumping on the opportunity.

For big picture decisions, I agree with you.

Nope.

If she wants me to do something, she asks respectfully. Sometimes a little too respectfully, and I let her know she's fine.