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Diablo IV

Artyoan

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 16, 2017
Messages
652
Innovation has so thoroughly stagnated that compliments are relegated to changes in specific old abilities from Diablo 2, whether to have cooldowns or not, and the existence of changing weather.

'Diablo 3.5: Better lighting and contrast edition'. 60 Dollars plus mtx please.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,780
Location
Frostfell
His reasoning is dumb. You still have to consider which skill is better to use when they have cooldowns, and it's a more complicated decision because it has to account for not just what is best right now, but what will be best for the next 20 seconds or whatever is applicable to the cooldown. Only a moron would use all his skills as soon as they come off cooldown without regard for when they'll be most effective and then bitch about how he has no choices to make.

Completely wrong. Compare firearms on Fallout New Vegas VS in Anthem.

On Anthem, most cool stuff are unlimited but with cooldown. On FNV, you can purchase .50 BMG high explosive rounds, but there are few vendors who sells, in very limited amount at high price. So, if you like, you can kill unarmored weak bandits with it but is a waste. On Anthem, due CDs, this weapons doesn't feel like weapons... 90s/earlier 00s RPG's had all types of spells. Ultima, Elder Scrolls and Baldur's Gate uses completely different magic system. None of then had cooldowns. Post modern AAA rpgs are just a bunch of wow clones.

Diablo 1 took things too far wrt chokepoints. So much of the game was spent popping moles in a doorway. Diablo 1 is a fantastic game, but I played it years after playing Diablo 2 and I think people might have rose tinted goggles. At least playing a warrior turns the last third of the game into a chore, and something I will never do again. It never got hard, but it sure was tedious.

In other games, mages sucks. I know because i played Gothic 2 as a Fire Mage, first. Become a fire mage is hard as hell, mainly because magic is only obtained at the monastery and the DLC despite additing a lot of water mages, you can't join then who are much cooler than fire ones IMO, you can't even try to persuade Xardas to teach you magic on beginning of the game. And after 15 hours of game, once you finally learned magic, you can trow two fire arrows per rest. Needs to spend points on melee as backup, on rune crafting, circle learning, mana, and gold on scrolls, on mana points, gear, etc and only the last last third of the game is barely playable with mages. But when you get spells that summon powerful creatures, you can just be at back firing your bow and winning 90% of fights or sinking enemies, freezing enemies and attacking then at range, mages are hard mode for 60% of the game, medium mode for 25% and easy mode for the rest 15%. Gothic 3 in other hands, i can in 4 hours ge Lightning bolt + 150 ancient knowledge + 300 mana(enough to cast my main spell 20 times) and once you reach 250 ancient knowledge, something not that hard, you can have constant mana regen and make rain fire at willl... This only looking to damage. Druid stones allow you to shapeshift without mana cost, bloodlust can turn a 5x1 into a favorable battle, summon golam/demon is too strong, open locks make most thief skills obsolete...

I saw a lot of people saying that the earlier game of D1 as a sorcerer is hard but the end game is easy. No, is not. You an easily find staves with charges, and level up your mage skills is not hard.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,780
Location
Frostfell
What an absolutely ridiculous comparison. You could start by comparing games in the same genre.

So, compare Battlefront with Battlefield.

On Battlefront soldiers has unlimited grenades on CD, on BF they have limited grenades without CD.
edit : or compare ultima online with wow.
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest


so, will we have this kind of anticipation and reaction in D4? :)


Reminds me when I saw a unique Unearthed Wand drop once from a random Pindleskin run and froze in my seat for a solid few minutes staring at it on the ground. After confirming it was indeed Death's Web I proceeded to flaunt my huge e-cock in every trading game I could.
 

coldcrow

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2009
Messages
1,659
Any suggestion for similar games to play actually? I've played a lot Grim Dawn and i like it but im not sold about the apocalypse setting. Would like to see a game like that but fantasy.

Sacred 2 is really good. Endless character customization in a magical type of huge open world. Check it out if you've never played it.
Why don't you ingest some detergent, maybe that will fix your brain. Sacred 2 is a huge buggy mess full of shit. Seriously, are there even bad games you do not like?
 

Zerginfestor

Learned
Joined
Nov 11, 2015
Messages
251
Location
Wasteland.
MrLLamaSC impressions of D4.


Around 10 minutes, he talk about how he disagrees that the idea of being able to max out all skills is a good idea.

Around 24 min - He mentions the difficulty curve and talks that he prefer when Druid shapeshift is more "constant" like D2, i agree with then. He also liked that he doesn't like scaling because it kills the possibility of the player engaging harder content. Around 27 min, Oblivion is used as a example of game with awful scaling and i strongly agree.

33 min - Starts to play as Druid. In nutshell, liked the Tornado changing the weather, and he loved the "molten boulder without the fire", he mentioned that he loved the cast time and roll time. He also mentions that he personally doesn't like cooldowns(like myself)

55 min - Started Sorceress and mentions that sorceress tee looks better than Barb because offers more choices. And he thinks that trees should have more things.

definitely agree on these terms, D2's limited skill points was great in the fact that you can specialize into a whole route with pros and cons, like the Summoner builds that can do amazing physical damage or have a great tank, but once a Physical immune unique monster came in, you were up shit creek without a paddle until you got a very specific runeword to compensate for the falloff, or Fire Druid that did massive absolute damage, but it tends to be random on where it hits, and that being fire damage can be completely ignored in Hell difficulty. The option to be Jack of All trades is also there, and while it's not as amazing as specialized roles in terms of damage, you can have a ton of utility and some folks have a good laugh about it.

The boulder physics are awesome in the gameplay footage, it actually responds to the environment around it, like hitting a wall and crumbling, the pieces flying about in random directions from the impact instead of just outright disappearing into the wall or some shit.

The trees are just shitty passives, I mean I'm all in favor of passives to mix with an active build, but with such extremely low bonuses and some being "What if" scenarios, the tree is just shit. Would've been great if trees had greater bonuses or unique things happening in branches, like one focusing on Lycanthropy, like every successful Maul increases the attack speed of it like back in D2, a talent that allows the Werebear trample to be directional (though with rough steering) and the werewolf the ability to leap and close the distance before slashing, Or a talent that keeps you in werebear/wolf form at all times until you cast a human spell like Cataclysm (though it would be much cooler to see the were forms roaring into the sky before all hell breaks loose).
 

Tehdagah

Arcane
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
9,340
Apparently Allen Adham, founder of Blizzard and one of the most important figures of WoW Classic is Executive Producer on Diablo IV. Apparently he actually liked Diablo 3. A lot. It may be time to panic.

He's one of those old guys on the management track I mentioned. This is the same guy who rejoined a few years ago after leaving around 2004~, the same guy who last year during the Diablo: Immortal blizzcon said in an interview that their best devs are not only making mobile games, but also playing them, and was proud of that. Money money money.


"but also playing them"

That's like, everyone today.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,628
Nearly 2 hour gameplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZtmNAMxwMM
Verdict: Decline

1:50 - Druid
23:15 - Sorceress
44:30 - Barbarian
44:20 - David Kim appears and starts to talk

I agree with him. Druids looks much more like Celtic Druid than WoW Druid and i particularly love it. As for cooldowns, i was thinking that cooldowns would ruin any shapeshift skill/build but despite cooldowns, druid shifting skills looks amazing. Don't get me wrong, are not amazing like D2. As for elemental druids, one thing that i loved is that Druids no longer have redundant skills with sorcerer(ss), his boulder for eg, now is pure earth, I miss around the caster spells like Hurricane but since the game is not read yet, i guess that they will be in final game.

I also loved the bonus of certain items, like the lightning when he shapeshift effect. Something that can be amazing for a shifter druid but useless for a wind druid.

As for runewords, they are back. See 31:50

Barbarians now can have 4 weapons, i din't payed much attention since Barbarian was my least favorite class on D2. And sorceress is the same thing of aways.

-------------------------

My opinion? Amazing for Blizzard Irvine standards, but could be better. still not good as a RPG compared to Blizzard North Diablo 1/2. I will probably purchase but ideally i wanna see Diablo 1 or 2 remade with this graphics and no change on his mechanics.

This game is a huge incline in relation to D3 and huge decline in relation to D2.
A brief history lesson for those still confused as to how Blizzard can't seem to divine a sequel to a genre they started.

Jay Wilson was hired to lead Diablo 3 after a career of working on mediocre RTS games. He thought the genre was about slot machines spitting out piles of shiny items.

David Kim, the asian guy with the high-pitched voice who is the lead system designer for Diablo 4, was a very good StarCraft player that Blizzard brought in-house to balance StarCraft 2 because he was able to articulate himself.

Someone very high up at Blizzard seems to think that Diablo is a sub-genre of RTS. Perhaps due to the similar camera angle? :lol:

Blizzard of yore would have bought the company that makes Path of Exile and told them to make a sequel to PoE called Diablo 4, then provided support and feedback to smooth out the controls, net code, cinematics, and introductory experience. Literally just like they did with Condor Entertainment (Blizzard North). Instead, you have multiplayer RTS devs designing your RPG stats/items/skills.
 

Machocruz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
4,374
Location
Hyperborea
Maybe explains why D3 looked like esports to me with the UI. Gotta have information popping up on the screen at all times.
 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,204
Do people still care about this online shit? (Edit: I am speaking about Diablo)
 
Last edited:

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,780
Location
Frostfell
A brief history lesson for those still confused as to how Blizzard can't seem to divine a sequel to a genre they started.

Jay Wilson was hired to lead Diablo 3 after a career of working on mediocre RTS games. He thought the genre was about slot machines spitting out piles of shiny items.

David Kim, the asian guy with the high-pitched voice who is the lead system designer for Diablo 4, was a very good StarCraft player that Blizzard brought in-house to balance StarCraft 2 because he was able to articulate himself.

Someone very high up at Blizzard seems to think that Diablo is a sub-genre of RTS. Perhaps due to the similar camera angle? :lol:

Blizzard of yore would have bought the company that makes Path of Exile and told them to make a sequel to PoE called Diablo 4, then provided support and feedback to smooth out the controls, net code, cinematics, and introductory experience. Literally just like they did with Condor Entertainment (Blizzard North). Instead, you have multiplayer RTS devs designing your RPG stats/items/skills.

I don't think that is impossible for a strategy developer to make good RPG's. In fact, look to Might & Magic / Heroes of Might & Magic developers. New World Computing also made Nuclear War and tons of other strategy games.

The problem is that blizzard irvine doesn't have experience with diablo like RPG's or any non wow """rpg"""".

Blizzard hired the top guy from CD projekt ( https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/n...er-cyberpunk-2077-away-cd-projekt-red-1178412 ) but looks like they din't fave him a bigl eading role.

But IMO they should hire David Brevik again.


Druid on D2

iu
latest

Druid on D4
iu

sources https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Druid_(Diablo_II)?file=Druid_Artwork.jpg and https://diablo.fandom.com/wiki/Druid_(Diablo_IV)
edit : "
In the short BlizzCon demo, the Druid’s transformations are on a timer and a cooldown; however, this could change sometime before the game launches in the future. https://www.vg247.com/2019/11/02/dr...o-4s-demo-blizzard-playing-different-options/
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,870


If everything they said is true and they won't reverse this, then true Diablo is back people.

CHARACTER PROGRESSION:
- Skills have levels much like D2. You unlock new tier of skills once you level up high enough.
- Those skill levels seems to increase damage and effects which means that at minimum damage is partially scaled from weapon rather than everything being scaled from weapon which was huge mistake in D3
- Talents are passive skills.
- Combined Skills and Talents pretty much are like D2 skill tree which had both skills and passives on those trees.
- Overall there will be more stuff in D3 than in skills trees in D2. And this completely doesn't take into account itemization which can completely change how skills work.
- Each class has specific change that isn't just reskin of other class with just different abilites. For an example Barbarian can equip 4 weapons instead of 2. Which gives him the most slots to use enabling more builds.
- Skills and talents have max level which can be like in D2/POE/Grimdawn broken by equiping gear providing bonuses to skills and talents. so you can have 5/5 passive skill and equip stuff that will get you 10/5

ITEMIZATION:
- runewords are something like POE socket system. You have trigger runes and effect runes. For example you can trigger shield absorbing 500 damage when you freeze enemy etc.
- there will be normal affixes like more attack speed or crit but they focus now mostly on providing build capabilities. So you will have items that will have passive skill on them and more or affixes that will change how you are using some skills.
- legendaries focus is on providing build capabilities. For example Teleport has cooldown normally but with one legendary item you can change it into normal spell you can cast as much as you want but it will now use mana. Then they showed few other legendaries where using teleport will give you shield, using teleport will create sphere in which you will have more crit damage etc.
- legendaries are equal or better in power than sets not worse.
- mytic items are limited to 1 in equipment but they are really powerful.

960x0.jpg



WORLD:
- world is mixed with random generation and hand made stuff. The idea is that reaching some dungeons etc will be static but dungeons or even parts of overworld will be randomized.
- No loading screens. If you go from LEVEL 1 of mine to LEVEL2 you will just take stairs and there will be no loadings.
- Morph system. You can have dungeon that will go from cave into tomp finally to reach some woods and their random generation system support transforming environments and joining them together to look good.
- 100s of dungeons, some of those dungeons will have unique bosses.
- Once you reach end game keys will start to drop which will be D4 end game content. Those keys will have affixes and thanks to those keys you will be able to upgrade dungeons to their end game form. Those keys will have power level to them so difficulty of area will depend on key power. Those keys will be for specific dungeons.
- There will be random dungeon events. For example they have shown that there is random chance of getting Bishibosh summoning event in woods they were exploring
- World events. This time they won't be hidden but they will be something that multiple people can join in and fight. They have shown boss battle with huge monster where more than 4 people were attacking it. Those bosses can stagger and players can for example break talons of monster so it won't use some attacks. Looks to me like more interesting raid system from MMOS.

ENEMIES:
- Enemies are now in logical groups. So if you go into cave you won't meet goat men and skeletons just hanging around. So each area of sanctuary will have its own enemies types or more prevelant than other so specialist builds can still play game instead of every build trying to be safe against everything. So if you specialize in poison defense you could just farm poison areas etc.
- Elites will have much more interesting affixes and some of better D3 one will come back.
- Elites will have also "enchanced" type of affix which will improve their default abilities. So demon summoner instead of summoning one demon minion he will summor 3, Skeleton balista instead of 1 shot will do 3 etc
- Enemies are designed so they can complete each other. For example skeletons are trash mobs but they work with skeleton balista which will shoot at your from outside of screen forcing you too choose between handling first skeletons and dodging those bolts or going after those balistats but you could agro more enemies which can be fatal etc.
 

MuscleSpark

Augur
Patron
Joined
Apr 12, 2011
Messages
369
In the short BlizzCon demo, the Druid’s transformations are on a timer and a cooldown
What? From what I saw that was not the case at all. It's entirely based on which ability you use (left click is werewolf swipes, right click is werebear slam) and you could switch back and forth.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,870
In the short BlizzCon demo, the Druid’s transformations are on a timer and a cooldown
What? From what I saw that was not the case at all. It's entirely based on which ability you use (left click is werewolf swipes, right click is werebear slam) and you could switch back and forth.

The cooldown stuff is also something you can modify with items. For example teleport has cooldown but if you equip some item it can become instant with no cooldown but with mana cost. Coulple that with runes and you can have teleport that will freeze enemies once used as normal skill instead of cooldown ability.
 

Morkar Left

Guest
Hi guys I heard it's always online and the overworld is always shared with other players? Isn't that coooool?
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
The character design is much more realistic in Diablo IV.

The barbarian female look perfectly natural, like a real tough woman with real proportions. Not huge like D3.

Even the male is muscular but not huge like D3. If feels more like real life proportions. I love that
 

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