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Diablo IV

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,780
Location
Frostfell
Magic, traps, it's all so overpowered and combat is such a routine. I had more fun playing Diablo 1 again with no mana regen and slow walking.

Like someone posted here D2 channel with speedruns. I checked on assa speedrun. Burst of speed + boots = no monster even comes close to player speed. Enemies are worthless.
This is where action RPGs died and combat became just a formality. Just something you test your new skills and builds on.

Diablo 1 was made with turn based in mind then changed to real time.

-------------------

Anyway, one thing that i wanna quote from Diablo forums

"
If we allow players to swap their character as fluidly as D3, then we lose out on the RPG fantasy of playing a Character and we end up playing a class, we end up playing a set of items.

This is why Sets are so prevalent in D3. The Devs are trying to create the Character Building from Diablo 2, but using items isntead of Skill Trees. This leads to a game that is item-focused, and not focused on Character Building.

Items should support skills, not the other way around. In Diablo 3, you get items and you just swap your skills to whatever OP drop the game throws at you.Items should support skills, not the other way around. In Diablo 3, you get items and you just swap your skills to whatever OP drop the game throws at you."

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d...ill-system-a-case-for-character-building/5584

Is long, but he nailet it. In short, there are nothing with "simplistic rpg elements", the problem is no RPG element.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,969
Location
Russia
Diablo was designed to be a game for casuals from the very first entry.
Also, the original design document from Diablo essentially had the idea of DLC with full intent of selling the game piecemeal to milk as much money as possible.
A573mhH.png
Note the very interesting inspiration: MTG

And people loled at me when I said that MTG inspired loot boxes. And here you are.
 
Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
3,535
https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/46709-everything-we-know-about-diablo-4-so-far/

Also:

Reddit said:
Subtle but extremely important artistic/atmospheric aspects that should be included in D4

1. Light Radius

Anyone who plays through D2 will understand that light radius plays an extremely important role in terms of the gothic horror experience. It is fear of the unknown, the light radius allows monsters to scare you, it allows you to be truly ambushed, darkness coupled with proper, appropriate environment design (claustrophobic spaces, thick wilderness, gothic and medieval architecture, etc) allows the Diablo mood to set in, without paying attention to lighting, that mood can easily be lost.

2. Monster lighting

Somebody else brought this up earlier, when you hit a monster in D3, they light up slightly, in the D4 demo this also exists but it’s not as obvious. It’s very important that monsters not be well lit, unless they are carrying candles or if it is an important part of their design. Monsters should be visible and readable, but when a monster is dark and not completely in the light, they appear more imposing and scary then they are otherwise. Make sure that the light generated from skills dosen’t illuminate monsters too well, and be sure to strike the balance between realistic lighting physics and enough darkness that the mind of the player can add onto the monster design in the sense of the mind filling in the gaps put in place by the darkness.

3. Non player humans not being completely weak

In D3, townsfolk are almost COMPLETELY inept compared to the player and the monsters they face, while this isn’t as true in D2. When townsfolk and regular humans are worthless, the world honestly feels surreal and it takes away from the fact that the player in D4 should feel mortal and not godlike. There should be a clear gap between the player and most humans, but regular humans should be at least a little competent even if they are getting owned by demons.

4. VERY IMPORTANT - Not being godlike throughout and starting off relatively weak and getting more powerful as you level.

In D3, even your first abilities like the Barbarian’s bash the Wizard’s magic missile, Demon Hunter’s rapid fire, etc feel overwhelmingly strong, they don’t feel like they were designed for being the first few abilities you get. In D2, it’s sort of the opposite. You start of with a valuable but basic spell, sorceresses get firebolt, Necromancers get raise skeleton, Barbarians and Paladins just melee. It’s not until you start to really level up that you can put skill points into better spells and really get strong. This reinforces the sense of being mortal and the RPG sense of starting off weak and earning your way to strength. In a Diablo game (and all Blizzard games) these things are inextricably linked.

5. UI not being too bright, distracting.

In Diablo 3, the UI has a lot of light in it. When you click on the ground you see a yellow/orange pulse. The mini map, time, chat, and objectives all feel a little too modern and it almost feels sci-fi at times, it feels too obvious you’re playing a game and take away from immersion. I think it’s good in a close up MMORPG like WoW but in an isometric RPG like Diablo, I think it’s the wrong approach. In D2 the AI is much more gothic, minimally invasive and fits the theme of the game. The screen isn’t taken up by the mini map or other elements. To the contrary, everything but the bottom of the screen is free, and the UI is artistic but not an excessive source of brightness and distraction.

6. World building, narrations, and voice overs.

In D2 it was pretty common that you would find those lore books that had that epic dark narration, it was a major tone setter, you felt like you had a glimpse into the larger story but it still felt distant and vague, it left you food for thought. In D3, you get a lot of monster journals and stuff like that, I do like these, as much as Abd Al Hazir is an awesome character and is my boy, I think that for D4 the narrations can’t be light hearted as some in vanilla D3 were. They need to be be dark and foreboding, like you’re finding an ancient tome of demonic lore. They should have a sense of mysteriousness surrounding them.

Bottom line, narrations need to follow the same gothic theme as everything else, and should weave a larger story behind theme, they need to be scary, they need to serve to make you afraid of hell and the foes the game throw at you. They need to play up to Diablo’s atmosphere.

What else do you guys think are critical artistic, atmospheric things to be included?
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
Oh God, they still got that mega gay "beam of light" thing when a unique item drops.

And they still don't use the proper Diablo font for items.
 

Grotesque

±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
9,019
Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
5313840814_c91aa0ab5c_b.jpg
NIQ3011_1200.jpg



I hope they make the electric discharge effects more realistic
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,969
Location
Russia
I hope you can remove flashing, numbers and healthbars. The new style is nice but when combat begins I can't understand for shit what is happening.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,041
-Lilith is bad gal for some reason.
She always was. The nephalim were created to help her fuck Heaven & Hell and rule over creation. That's why she protects humans at all costs, not because she loves them.
That dude in there was NOT Rathma
That's not entirely surprising. Rathma fucking hates Lilith with a passion. it'd be weirder if it was him resurrecting her.

Since when was her urge was to rule over creation? I thought she just wanted to wipe out Burning Hells and High Heavens because of the constant warring is just never ending and so tiresome.
Ever since she went nuclear on Inarius for even considering killing the nephalem - her tool to end the eternal conflict.
I only played vanilla D3, I don't remember this lore there. Is this from expansions?
no it's from the sin war books.
Someone reads Diablo books? :backawayslowly:
 

Dr Skeleton

Arcane
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
817
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Reddit said:
In D2 it was pretty common that you would find those lore books that had that epic dark narration, it was a major tone setter, you felt like you had a glimpse into the larger story but it still felt distant and vague, it left you food for thought. In D3, you get a lot of monster journals and stuff like that, I do like these, as much as Abd Al Hazir is an awesome character and is my boy, I think that for D4 the narrations can’t be light hearted as some in vanilla D3 were. They need to be be dark and foreboding, like you’re finding an ancient tome of demonic lore. They should have a sense of mysteriousness surrounding them.
There are no books in D2 (unless you count that one that gives you a quest in act1). Lore books in the dungeon were in D1.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,041

After playing D3 30 minutes the other day I can see that in this video they are using same font and way to display loot on the ground. Also Rare enemies and their supports look and fight the same.
There is 0 chance they are using new engine for this like they claim, unless to them new engine means taking D3 engine and upgrading graphics a bit. Kind of like how Bethesda claimed each new game of theirs used "new" engine while we all knew it is same but with better graphics.
 

Sentinel

Arcane
Joined
Nov 18, 2015
Messages
6,668
Location
Ommadawn
-Lilith is bad gal for some reason.
She always was. The nephalim were created to help her fuck Heaven & Hell and rule over creation. That's why she protects humans at all costs, not because she loves them.
That dude in there was NOT Rathma
That's not entirely surprising. Rathma fucking hates Lilith with a passion. it'd be weirder if it was him resurrecting her.

Since when was her urge was to rule over creation? I thought she just wanted to wipe out Burning Hells and High Heavens because of the constant warring is just never ending and so tiresome.
Ever since she went nuclear on Inarius for even considering killing the nephalem - her tool to end the eternal conflict.
I only played vanilla D3, I don't remember this lore there. Is this from expansions?
no it's from the sin war books.
Someone reads Diablo books? :backawayslowly:
I didn't.
 

BlackAdderBG

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
3,081
Location
Little Vienna
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker

After playing D3 30 minutes the other day I can see that in this video they are using same font and way to display loot on the ground. Also Rare enemies and their supports look and fight the same.
There is 0 chance they are using new engine for this like they claim, unless to them new engine means taking D3 engine and upgrading graphics a bit. Kind of like how Bethesda claimed each new game of theirs used "new" engine while we all knew it is same but with better graphics.


I don't believe the new engine bullshit too, the enemies fly of screen when killed the same as D3 so physics part looks the same. Animations for attacks and skills looks the same. Maybe slapping a filter is now "new engine".
 

Daedalos

Arcane
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
5,571
Location
Denmark
Oh no the diablo 4 engine has SOME of the things that Diablo 3 had, SHIT G AEM LEL!?!?

Diablo 3s combat is one of those things that the game actually does better than all the other arpgs, u fucking morons.
Diablo 4 borrowing stuff from diablo 3s combat is GOOD.

Now skills, talents, itemization and sall that is a different story, but the combat itself was solid in D3

Crisp, looked great (if u liked the artstyle obviously) played fluid, smooth and fast like an arpg should, feels rewarding and packs a punch, and animations were top notch
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,628

After playing D3 30 minutes the other day I can see that in this video they are using same font and way to display loot on the ground. Also Rare enemies and their supports look and fight the same.
There is 0 chance they are using new engine for this like they claim, unless to them new engine means taking D3 engine and upgrading graphics a bit. Kind of like how Bethesda claimed each new game of theirs used "new" engine while we all knew it is same but with better graphics.

Claiming a new engine is a weird attempt to signal quality when announcing a new product.

It is obviously an upgraded engine in some respects, but to claim it is new as they have been telling streamers is a misleading lie.
 

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,628
I dont understand why they have so many item qualities in something like this when the majority of them are only used for a couple of hours.
 

Artyoan

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 16, 2017
Messages
652
Itemization is following in D3's footsteps which is a bad sign. Blizzard's philosophy on loot has been to constantly deprive the player of open ended judgement making.

Diablo 2 did not force an Attack+ and a Life+ stat on the vast majority of items. You could have an item with '+30% fire resist and +life' and have to make an open ended comparison with another item having '+mana and +life stolen per hit'. Which is better? Its your judgement for your build. And your character becomes yours because you made those decisions.

If the choices are made for you and/or have no lasting consequence, you played someone else's template. They should remove 'Attack/Defense' off of every single item and have it primarily be attributes the player picks during level ups and only on some items. Balance it so having 'Strength' on every item is not necessary for it to be any good for a Barbarian. The same stat should not need to be nor even be capable of being on every single slot item. That makes for a boring stat.

Making open ended judgements is why Diablo 2's loot is so much more appealing. They did a good job of giving the player a large variance in making decisions of loot that were sometimes Apples to Apples and sometimes Apples to Oranges. See how these don't have the same stats holding your hand for you:

zL7e5ft.jpg
 

abija

Prophet
Joined
May 21, 2011
Messages
2,909
It trivializes combat since you don't even have to aim at enemies.
Is there any decent PoE build that would require you to "aim" even remotely close to an enemy model for it to work?

Note the very interesting inspiration: MTG

And people loled at me when I said that MTG inspired loot boxes. And here you are.

https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/timmy-johnny-and-spike-2013-12-03 This is the core philosophy behind all balance decisions in Blizzard PvP games. MTG bullshit affected much more than lootboxes.
 

typical user

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Messages
957
Itemization is following in D3's footsteps which is a bad sign. Blizzard's philosophy on loot has been to constantly deprive the player of open ended judgement making.

Diablo 2 did not force an Attack+ and a Life+ stat on the vast majority of items. You could have an item with '+30% fire resist and +life' and have to make an open ended comparison with another item having '+mana and +life stolen per hit'. Which is better? Its your judgement for your build. And your character becomes yours because you made those decisions.

If the choices are made for you and/or have no lasting consequence, you played someone else's template. They should remove 'Attack/Defense' off of every single item and have it primarily be attributes the player picks during level ups and only on some items. Balance it so having 'Strength' on every item is not necessary for it to be any good for a Barbarian. The same stat should not need to be nor even be capable of being on every single slot item. That makes for a boring stat.

Making open ended judgements is why Diablo 2's loot is so much more appealing. They did a good job of giving the player a large variance in making decisions of loot that were sometimes Apples to Apples and sometimes Apples to Oranges. See how these don't have the same stats holding your hand for you:

zL7e5ft.jpg

Diablo 3 has +Attack, Diablo 2 has Dellirium. /thread
 

Swigen

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
1,014
-Lilith is bad gal for some reason.
She always was. The nephalim were created to help her fuck Heaven & Hell and rule over creation. That's why she protects humans at all costs, not because she loves them.
That dude in there was NOT Rathma
That's not entirely surprising. Rathma fucking hates Lilith with a passion. it'd be weirder if it was him resurrecting her.

Since when was her urge was to rule over creation? I thought she just wanted to wipe out Burning Hells and High Heavens because of the constant warring is just never ending and so tiresome.
Ever since she went nuclear on Inarius for even considering killing the nephalem - her tool to end the eternal conflict.
I only played vanilla D3, I don't remember this lore there. Is this from expansions?
no it's from the sin war books.
Someone reads Diablo books? :backawayslowly:
I didn't.
I lieked this one...

Legacyofblood-large.jpg
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,969
Location
Russia
I remember soj + soj / raven if you don't have other antifreeze + mara

Big chunk of equipment was simply outclassed by rune words

And stats people like were: str for items, dex for block or items, no magic, all the rest > vitality

Surprisingly I found stats matter more in D1 because there is a limit to how much you can invest per class and because Magic is needed to learn spells.
But between no stats or D2 stats I actually don't see big difference.

Blizzard MUST hire MrLLamaSC


I loled a this one



actually I now want to make a fighter necro. Always wanted to but played too much helicopter druids and never did.
 
Last edited:

Grotesque

±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
9,019
Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
It is very hard to capture the the gameplay feeling of a 2D game like Diablo 2 with a game that is 3D, to make a 3D game that behaves like a 2D game. That's why many think that is not a new engine in Diablo 4.

3:31 onward


edit : on the other hand, the biggerst giveaway that D4 has an "enhanced" D3 engine is the way maps/dungeons are structured
 
Last edited:

J1M

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
14,628
Who the fuck would want a Diablo 2 remake to be done in 3D?

Just fix the resolution and render the sprites again.
 

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