George Ziets opening a new RPG studio - Digimancy Entertainment

[Sentinel]

G Ziets were you under the effects of any sort of drugs while writing Myrkul's dialogue in MotB? If not what did you draw inspiration from? What came first - the artwork of the area or your writing? Bonus: who decided on that camera angle?

 

[J_C]

Ziets knows how to say all the right things :D

Maybe we should retire MCA as the Codex darling and appoint the new Codex Messiah, MGZ?

 

[Lyric Suite]

Speaking of graphics again, what do you think of realistic implements (armors, weapons etc) as opposed to those cartoony fantasy ones we see in games all the time?

Say what you will about the Diablo series, but i think the way they designed the armors, weapons, both in game and in inventory is almost unmatched by most other games:

I'm tired of the way object looks in fantasy games. It just feels plebeian at this point.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The entire idea that one can not be apolitical is a terrible misunderstanding. Every act is a human act. It is a product of human belief. Political is a subset of those acts where one tries to leverage their position in society specifically to gain influence over it as a whole. To try and claim that every theft, every expression of love, hate, belief is political is itself a political act to change the discourse of society to push a specific narrative. Don't fall for it.

This is an abuse of language you guys are engaging in, because a world view is one thing, but political action is another, because the latter will always have a "meta" aim.

Thus, Linda Hamilton in T2 was a product of a world view, one which was based on the 2+2=5 notion that men and women are the same, but the character itself was organic to the story and was not thus "political". Linda Hamilton's screed in the same movie about how "men" don't know what it actually means to create was however political, because it expressed a specific ideological talking point that was completely inconsistent with both the character and the story (i'd like to think that scene was Linda Hamilton's own idea because i refuse to believe Cameron was that retarded).

I am not sure how exactly you are disagreeing with me. All I am saying is that when something is done to specifically influence people, then it is political. If a creator creates art because they believe in it, it is not politics but artistic license.

Maybe i read you wrong, but in that case we are in agreement.

With that said, there some things that may be artistic license which in the climate of tension we live today might actually be mistaken as being political, but i think in the main if Ziets wants to avoid controversy he should avoid getting involved in the two aspects of current year political activism i elucidated. Thus, don't start making all male characters who are bad or worthless only because you want to "teach" a lesson to the patriarchy, or anything like that. THAT ought to be easy i would think, no?

 

[Lyric Suite]

Ziets knows how to say all the right things :D

Maybe we should retire MCA as the Codex darling and appoint the new Codex Messiah, MGZ?

Only if he delivers the goods.

 

[Life of the Party]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14qeRZB2qxXpP29tVc5GTKugUo4XLpVjI/view

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Damn, even Lyric Suite can perceive some incline in this thread.

Looks like Kali-Yuga has been postponed for a while, guys, good job I guess.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

I have to second this. The problem with Planescape and Dark Sun is that we already have great games in those settings, so anything George could do would feel like a bit of a retread. And Ravenloft just has too much B-movie schlock in it. And none of those settings have any real surprises for old PnP gamers. But Symbaroum is a very well designed and written modern dark/weird fantasy setting that lets you dungeoneer with artistic flair. Probably the best PnP setting from the last decade, and gives a lot of the same vibes as MotB so right up GZ alley.

I think your concerns are valid, but I'm sure you'd agree at least a little bit that Ziets could make a Planescape/Dark Sun game that isn't a retread, and a serious Ravenloft game. Also, I think even if the games did turn out to be somewhat retreads, as long as they were quality, I still don't think I'd mind.

I think what Jack wrote on twitter about Dark Sun having never had a real chance to shine is a good point. Planescape: Torment has gone down in crpg history as something unique and special. The Dark Sun games haven't. The Dark Sun setting has some really interesting areas, and ideas. Imagine if we could play as a Preserver/Defiler and could affect the game world on micro and macro levels. Or imagine playing a game set in the Last Sea area where the Mind Lords rule and we get a well developed psionics system, or along the Jagged Cliffs the halflings inhabit, or out on the Crimson Savannah where the thri-kreen thrive. Maybe become a dragon or avangion. There are quite a few possibilities: http://digitalwanderer.net/darksun/

Having said that, that Symbaroum setting looks awesome! I get a bit of a, I dunno, gothic? Mirkwood vibe from it. The map (layout of the world) makes the forest feel incredibly vast. It's pretty creepy and cool. I'm going to check it out based on your recommendation.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14qeRZB2qxXpP29tVc5GTKugUo4XLpVjI/view

Thanks!

 

[Wunderbar]

This thread should be renamed into "George Ziets appreciation thread"

 

[G Ziets]

G Ziets for a question on the more practical side of development, what are your thoughts on how to avoid the Fidelity Trap?

By which I mean the tendency to stuff games with more and more high fidelity presentation: 3d in place of simple 2d, more complex 3d models, more voiceacting, and so on, until (a) the budget balloons together with devtime and (b) ironically, the game becomes less immersive than it would have been without all these superfluous elements.

The best recent example is Battle Brothers versus Phoenix Point. Battle Brothers’ graphics are more immersive than Phoenix Point’s despite probably costing one tenth or less. Battle Brothers has to pay one artist, Phoenix Point has to feed 30+ Bulgarian slaves that still produce a worse result than the single 2d artist. And this issue has been a curse on games for decades, with too many examples to mention. Imagine if KODP or its sequel had gone with 3d models instead of 2d screens. Imagine if RimWorld had been 3d: it would have taken twice as long to make, run like shit, lost its hyper-moddability and still looked far worse than it does. If you add any element to the game, it has to be excellent, otherwise it will detract from the game, so if you can’t make it excellent then it’s better to leave it out. And yet this is the type of design decision that gets made all the time. Keeping shit simple is one of the developer’s most important skills and it’s strange that it so often gets forgotten.

How do you propose to keep your representation lo-fi enough that it stays in the ‘sweet spot’ of immersion? (And budget)

Edit: And I should emphasize that the main problem with this Fidelity Trap is that higher fidelity forces you to *cut back features* both for direct budget/time reasons and because you need to dumb down the game to recoup the bigger budget with a bigger and dumber market. For instance, Phoenix Point is far inferior to 1994’s X-Com in terms of features. In fact, there hasn’t ever been an X-Com clone that has feature parity with the original, besides, arguably, Apocalypse. I can only assume this is because they all had to sacrifice some core gameplay to the ‘awesome’ (shit) 3d graphics. Imagine how mechanically deep Phoenix Point could have been if it had Battle Brothers style sprite graphics.

You describe the problem pretty accurately. In the industry, there’s a perception (which I suspect is mostly true) that higher production values lead to better mass-market sales. For large companies with big, expensive teams, chasing mega-hits is essential. The only way they can sell enough units to maintain their massive overhead is to make blockbuster titles that will capture the attention of the casual audience with their graphical fidelity, full VO, big name actors, and so on. (Rarely, a unique low-fi game like Minecraft becomes a mass market hit, but those are extremely difficult to predict.)

Mid-sized companies that are seeking a wider audience often follow a similar strategy, but as you point out, there’s a major tradeoff because it takes much longer, causes major headaches for the team (see Josh Sawyer’s talk where he discusses adding full VO to PoE2) and is more expensive to produce.

If you’re a smaller studio, you don’t need a mass market hit to be profitable, so you don’t have the same pressures. A lot of games from smaller studios employ a more stylized presentation that is cheaper to produce but can still look cool (and ironically can make their games more distinctive and memorable than big-budget titles). Also, if your core gameplay is focused and tight, you can sometimes pull off higher production values because your scope is limited. Darkest Dungeon is a good example – it has a distinctive, atmospheric style, but the characters aren’t running around in an expensive, 3D world. Battle Brothers is actually another example - you may or may not like the presentation of their characters, but it's distinctive - as soon as I see a screenshot, I know it's Battle Brothers.

 

[G Ziets]

G Ziets were you under the effects of any sort of drugs while writing Myrkul's dialogue in MotB? If not what did you draw inspiration from? What came first - the artwork of the area or your writing? Bonus: who decided on that camera angle?

Haha! No, I was not, but it took a lot of time to write and polish that dialogue (about a week, I think), and I was listening to a lot of Planescape: Torment music and other appropriately atmospheric tracks. It also took a while to find that character’s voice. I’m not sure there was any specific inspiration – I just wrote lots and lots of lines until I started coming up with something that sounded right for him. (I don’t ordinarily do that for most characters. When I have a day or so to write a dialogue – as is typical – I need to develop a voice much more quickly, so I fall back on my usual repertoire of archetypal characters, with a mild twist. Creating a more unique voice takes some time.)

The writing came before the art, but I had the visual in my head before I started writing. I wish I could remember how I came up with the idea of the skeletal god floating in the Astral Plane and the player standing on his spine… probably something I jotted down while reading D&D sourcebooks during preproduction.

I’m not sure who decided on the camera angle. It might have been Justin Cherry (lead artist on Mask) or one of the other artists.

 

[Alienman]

Think what you could write while being on drugs though!

 

[StaticSpine]

more voiceacting

Is there a place for a game with just text in current year? Because i can't think of anything that would limited writing more than having to voice act everything.

I think the best way to apply VO is similar to PS:T. You give a very limited number of voiced lines to a very limited number of characters.

 

[Steamboat Willie]

I think the best way to apply VO is similar to PS:T. You give a very limited number of voiced lines to a very limited number of characters.

This is how most nip RPGs are.

 

[Life of the Party]

 

[StaticSpine]

 

[Makabb]

gosh, [?????],

I believe he says Dark Sun.

I've read this as Dark Soy

 

[ERYFKRAD]

G Ziets what is your stance on barbarians? And what is your stance on elves?

 

[Roguey]

Think what you could write while being on drugs though!

Drugs are an overrated meme.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Think what you could write while being on drugs though!

Drugs are an overrated meme.

In the words of my psychiatrist: you haven’t lived until you’ve tried mushrooms. You, in particular, might benefit enormously the next time you get depressed given your diagnosis. It’s like hitting the reset button on your brain. Same for ketamine (but don’t buy the new on patent stuff from Johnson & Johnson—it’s highway robbery. get it from a vet, or a criminal, or a legitimate compounding pharmacy if your doctor will give you a prescription).

 

[Darkzone]

Think what you could write while being on drugs though!

Drugs are an overrated meme.

In the words of my psychiatrist: you haven’t lived until you’ve tried mushrooms. You, in particular, might benefit enormously the next time you get depressed given your diagnosis. It’s like hitting the reset button on your brain. Same for ketamine (but don’t buy the new on patent stuff from Johnson & Johnson—it’s highway robbery. get it from a vet, or a criminal, or a legitimate compounding pharmacy if your doctor will give you a prescription).

Stop spreading this retarded shit. I had friends who died, because of drugs influence on their mind, like Ketamine (is not so harmless as anyone thinks). Every drug destroys you mind, brain and the cognitive capabilities, there is nothing about enhanced creativity and you don't understand the universe on LSD.

 

[Life of the Party]

G Ziets what is your stance on Realms of Arkania HD?

And while you're at it, could you please make a comparison between RPGs and RPG games?

 

[Prime Junta]

Stop spreading this retarded shit. I had friends who died, because of drugs influence on their mind, like Ketamine (is not so harmless as anyone thinks). Every drug destroys you mind, brain and the cognitive capabilities, there is nothing about enhanced creativity and you don't understand the universe on LSD.

"Everything I like is either illegal, immoral, or fattening, or at least causes cancer in rats."

 

[lophiaspis]

[ELECTROCHEMISTRY: SUCCESS!]


In the words of my psychiatrist: you haven’t lived until you’ve tried mushrooms. You, in particular, might benefit enormously the next time you get depressed given your diagnosis. It’s like hitting the reset button on your brain. Same for ketamine (but don’t buy the new on patent stuff from Johnson & Johnson—it’s highway robbery. get it from a vet, or a criminal, or a legitimate compounding pharmacy if your doctor will give you a prescription).

 

[Plane Escapee]

G Ziets, it is very reassuring to know that you actually like and spend a significant time playing the same games as we do. I think one of the most deciding factors for how underwhelming most of the large crowdfunded RPGs ended up being, as well as recent AA+ throwback titles, is that so many of you don't actually play or enjoy that kind of games today that you set out to make, if ever in some cases.

I really hope you'll make that a bare minimum requirement when hiring people on for your projects. It doesn't matter how good your vision is if the other people you depend upon to realise it don't actually share that.

Playing The Outer Worlds this week really made me despair... There is some genuinely well thought ideas poured into setting and specific elements of that game's aesthetics that is definitely reminiscent of Tim and Leonards earlier work but the execution in the writing department, the character models... in so many areas of the game... it's clearly done by people who are completely disconnected from that. The world is clearly intended to be a satire but aside from bits and pieces of lore and the aesthetic design of vending machines, corporation logos and canned fish products, the satire is dead on delivery. The other writers' and artists' frame of reference with regards to film, books, games etc. is obviously so far removed from that of the people whose vision they're supposed to realise.

If you at any point don't have anything better to do, I'd like hear your take on miscommunicated ideas on the projects you've worked on and lessons you've learned during those projects. There ought to be some examples that don't break any NDAs or risk any relationships.