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Dragon Age Dragon Age: Origins is ten years old today

Dishonoredbr

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
2,095
Did EA take over Bioware in the middle of the development?

Yep. That's somethings feels quite unfinished and shit like this shitty DLC deal exist.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Oh yeah, how did that happen again? Did EA take over Bioware in the middle of the development?
Yeah. It happened on October 11th, 2007, and it was some sketchy shit involving Elevation Partners selling VG Holding Corp. (which was originally billed as a partnership between BioWare and Pandemic protecting them from publisher influence by opening them up to outside investment from Elevation Partners, which became the legal owner of the partnership as the stakeholder of a $300 million investment; this all happened on November 3rd, 2005) to Electronic Arts as part of a fucking massive $860 million deal. It's important to note that the guy who orchestrated this deal (John Riccitiello) was the former COO and President of EA, who left to become a Founder and Managing Director of Elevation Partners, who then became CEO of EA in March of 2007 (the same month that he ceased to be Managing Director of Elevation Partners). On October 11th, he finalized the deal between EA and Elevation Partners to buy BioWare and Pandemic Studios to EA for $860 million. I can't help but wonder if he wasn't playing as both buyer and seller of that transaction, selling other people's companies, buying it with other people's money, and cutting himself a check both ways (as a stakeholder in Elevation Partners and as CEO of EA, plus some stock-related stuff).
 
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Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
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Messages
35,653
Sounds like LARPing to me. There is no good reason to side with Werewolves unless you really just want them for your army. You're not presented any reason at all to do it, so you're really just picking mass murder for shits and giggles, because you felt like it.

LARPing is when you do things that aren't acknowledged in-game. Role playing is when you role play a specific character concept, which is what you're supposed to be doing.

Nope. This wasn't "enslave nations with necromancy" grade bullshit we knew was never going to happen. This stuff was cut very late. It was planned out pretty heavily. The Orzammar questline is very blatantly a continuation of the events of the Dwarf Noble questline, and the Dwarf Noble makes perfect sense as a third contender. You were flagrantly set up for a revenge plot and even promo pictures reinforced that:


All the way into 2009 they were still selling the Dwarf Noble revenge route as part of the game. People looked forward to it. People were disappointed.

If it was a late cut, it must have been a painful one for them.

Mostly Obsidian/Troika/Interplay and Bioware (especially under EA) really. There are some pretty massive bugs in DAO and the patches were extremely half-assed. Instead of pumping out really shitty DLC and that Awakening expansion cruft, they should've just worked on adding in missing content (even if they had to bill it as DLC) and fixing the game's numerous issues. You need mods to play DAO, honestly. Just to fix the broken content and all the mechanics that don't work properly.

Patches don't pay the bills when it's "good enough." I didn't need any mods my first time through, which was also completely unpatched.
 

Grumpy Grognard

Inn Between Worlds
Developer
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Dec 5, 2013
Messages
103
Location
Grizzled Gnoll's Gorge
+ Full Party Control
+ Tactics Framework
+ Reactivity
+ Lore

- Encounter scaling
- Itemization scaling
- Console UI
- gift-giving
- voiced NPC dialogue
- The Fade

I reckon the DAO encounter scaling systems & design were well thought out, for a scaling system *shrug*

Had some logic to it - not without flaws, however it wasn't as bad as meeting level 40 bandits in glass/daedric armour, looking at you oblivion...

This link works, although the embedded diagram/map is broken, from Georg Zoeller's old site IIRC https://web.archive.org/web/20100305211930/http://dragonage.gulbsoft.org/doku.php/challenge_scaling

From memory/paraphrasing:

Key encounters were hand-tuned (lieutenants, etc), & scaling was done on a fairly granular scale, to 'brackets' (not just like: all of Denerim is level 10 all the time, nor are they always 10+2).

It had idiosyncrasies, but it still kinda made sense: certain areas/enemies were easy early game, and tough bastards were going to be tough until late-game, etc. The variability in level scale was clamped (Denerim doesn't exceed level 10, Deep Roads is whatever, etc).

Areas also had hand-scripted gating encounters, designed to test you a bit - something like 3-5 levels above the average level scale in the area you were approaching.

Fluff piece on it which doesn't tell you much: https://dragonage.fandom.com/wiki/Challenge_scaling
 

Grumpy Grognard

Inn Between Worlds
Developer
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103
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Grizzled Gnoll's Gorge
Oh yeah, how did that happen again? Did EA take over Bioware in the middle of the development?
... I can't help but wonder if he wasn't playing as both buyer and seller of that transaction, selling other people's companies, buying it with other people's money, and cutting himself a check both ways (as a stakeholder in Elevation Partners and as CEO of EA, plus some stock-related stuff).

...Dodgy games industry deals, you don't say, although it's not just old JR...
https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...-profiting-from-selling-stock-during-buybacks
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
trying to inform Lilura

Look, just because I mention scaling in DA:O, and this causes you to look things up in lame-o wikis because YOU don't know how it works off-hand, doesn't mean I need you to quote it back to me, and "inform" me, as if I don't know.

Do you know who I am? I'm someone who doesn't quote any other authority than my own. When I research something, I research within the game, and then I post my findings on my blog as an authoritative source. I don't check wikis and I don't even take into account what the devs say.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Developer
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Messages
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Location
Pannonia
Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
trying to inform Lilura

Look, just because I mention scaling in DA:O, and this causes you to look things up in lame-o wikis because YOU don't know how it works off-hand, doesn't mean I need you to quote it back to me, and "inform" me, as if I don't know.

Do you know who I am? I'm someone who doesn't quote any other authority than my own. When I research something, I research within the game, and then I post my findings on my blog as an authoritative source. I don't check wikis and I don't even take into account what the devs say.
images
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Warden's Keep. The DLC salesman shit was infamous. Only EA could consider garbage like that to be a good idea. Honestly all the DLC in DAO was fucking terrible, with the exception of the Stone Prisoner which was just a shitty form of gutting game content to turn it into "free" DLC so second-hand copies are fucked. Promo items also fucked the difficulty curve. Not that there was much of one, but still. Promo and DLC items made it worse. EA was really on the fast-track of wrecking brand value in order to make a quick buck.

Nowadays it doesn't garner as much controversy because anyone trying out DAO is getting some Ultimate Edition shit and EA has fully unlocked all the DLC for free many years later, because they couldn't be fucked to keep running the old systems and no one was buying it anymore. So the salesman problem isn't as noticeable when they actually lead to the DLC in question instead of telling you to go buy DLC.
I liked all the DLC :M
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
I was like: "You have got to be fucking kidding me! What is this shit?" I was so pissed at the way the DLC was incorporated into the game (basically an in-game advertisement) that I dropped DA:O immediately and never touched it again. Fuck EA and fuck Dragon Age.

Hear! Hear! Fuck LucasArts and the Secret of Monkey Island, too.


Capitalist pigs!
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
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Messages
35,653
I reckon the DAO encounter scaling systems & design were well thought out, for a scaling system *shrug*

People here hate any scaling system that boosts enemy stats. Replacing enemies with stronger creatures (as BG2 did) is acceptable.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
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Messages
8,600
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Deutschland
I reckon the DAO encounter scaling systems & design were well thought out, for a scaling system *shrug*
It wasn't as bad as DA2. In Da2 when you leveled up your armor DR decreased (because enemy attack rating increased) your To-hit became lower (because enemy defenses became higher) etc. You literally leveled up and became weaker for it.
 

normie

️‍
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Insert Title Here
jeez, replaying it now, I didn't remember the Anvil of the Void dilemma being as cringe as it is

they were really really reaching to tack on moral moral bad bad feelings to the decision of keeping it, which'd be a nobrainer in all circumstance

getting pozzed with darkspawn blood suspect but necessary to become a Spectre, creating golems bad because it's a slippery slope of literally Hitlur and Caridin just ain't feeling it anymore; it's like they took Dreadnoughts and worked out a way to make it gay
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
Level scaling is an abomination in all its forms. Yes, I'm aware that many of my fave RPGs employ some degree of scaling (BG, Arcanum etc.) - I despise it in them, too. Doesn't matter how subtle it is or if the nature of the enemy doesn't change; I don't want to see it.

Hand-crafted encounters and hand-placed loot is where it's at. I don't care how much it breeds imbalance or power-/meta-gaming. Some randomization in both can be interesting, providing it's drawn from hand-tailored pools.
 
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ScrotumBroth

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
1,288
Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
Wait what? Maybe my memory is too rusty, but can you bring up an example of level scaling in BG?
 

Vapid

Learned
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
72
Hear! Hear! Fuck LucasArts and the Secret of Monkey Island, too.

I'll take the bait. The Loom advert was just just a joke and we all know that. But, since you've mentioned SoMI, do you remember a different joke? The one with "Insert disk #22" when you try to look under the tree stump in the woods? EA would have made this shit real, but instead of that line, you'd be greeted with "Buy DLC #22".
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
556
I'll take the bait. The Loom advert was just just a joke and we all know that. But, since you've mentioned SoMI, do you remember a different joke? The one with "Insert disk #22" when you try to look under the tree stump in the woods? EA would have made this shit real, but instead of that line, you'd be greeted with "Buy DLC #22".

Yeah, pretty fucking obvious at the time that the Loom thing was a joke. BTW I think the "Insert Disk..." gag was removed from later releases because they had too many support calls over it.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
Level scaling is an abomination in all its forms. Yes, I'm aware that many of my fave RPGs employ some degree of scaling (BG, Arcanum etc.) - I despise it in them, too. Doesn't matter how subtle it is or if the nature of the enemy doesn't change; I don't want to see it.

Hand-crafted encounters and hand-placed loot is where it's at. I don't care how much it breeds imbalance or power-/meta-gaming. Some randomization in both can be interesting, providing it's drawn from hand-tailored pools.
That is why games like Might and magic and gothic are supreme in design!
 

Nano

Arcane
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Messages
4,647
Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In
That's lame. A single bandit attacking someone without help from his group doesn't even make sense.
 

Frozen

Arcane
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
8,303
jeez, replaying it now, I didn't remember the Anvil of the Void dilemma being as cringe as it is

they were really really reaching to tack on moral moral bad bad feelings to the decision of keeping it, which'd be a nobrainer in all circumstance

getting pozzed with darkspawn blood suspect but necessary to become a Spectre, creating golems bad because it's a slippery slope of literally Hitlur and Caridin just ain't feeling it anymore; it's like they took Dreadnoughts and worked out a way to make it gay

Its really a no brainer. I always keep it, who cares what BioWare is talking to you, there are no real bad repercussions as I remember. I think Oghren objects or something so you have to kill him if he is there and you didn't upgrade that persuasion tree to talk him out?
 

Frozen

Arcane
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
8,303
Great thing about this game that lacks today in gaming is that you can actually be evil.

It goes into absurdity levels at the beginning (when you can just kill random injured allies because it gives you the kick) but unfortunately later on they scale it down.

I love slaying Loghain in front of his bitch daughter, rubbing it in. His blood literally spills over her face.

There are a lot of these nice touches. Like end of that Werewolves/Elves quest where one option is to join in wiping out the faggots.
 
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Nano

Arcane
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4,647
Grab the Codex by the pussy Strap Yourselves In
Its really a no brainer. I always keep it, who cares what BioWare is talking to you, there are no real bad repercussions as I remember. I think Oghren objects or something so you have to kill him if he is there and you didn't upgrade that persuasion tree to talk him out?
No, Shale is the one that turns hostile if you keep the Anvil. Oghren is in favor of keeping it because it's what his wife wants to do.
 

Frozen

Arcane
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
8,303
Ah, yes.
I also love it how you can lie to Leliana straight into her face after destroying sacred ashes and just after you fuck.
Then you dump her for Morrigan, or the other way around.
 

Riel

Arcane
Joined
Apr 29, 2012
Messages
1,357
Location
Itaca
What I liked most Dragon Age was the mage lore. The thing with mages drawing their power from a plane filled with demons of sins and as such being tempted all the time into being possessed is really full of potential, it could have made a really mature game with great psychological depth. Then we got DA Origins, not a bad game as times went back then, but you could literally become an official Blood Mage and never ever be in any danger of becoming an abomination as all the rest of mages around you did at the slightest slip (especially in DA2 lol) it really soiled the setting for me. The most mature thing about DA and DA2 was nude mods lol.
 

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