Diablo IV

[Lilura]

As I thought. Wanted Fend zon focusing on Passives with Valk but heard also of the Fend bug (that dodge breaks the animation).

Yeah, when engaged with mobs, the dodge anims have the potential to lock us down, and we can't fend, which means we might actually get killed. I won't play with that potential in Hell mode /players8, so I don't take that line of skills. Valkyrie doesn't do shit when we're talking that mode of play, anyway, so it's not a huge loss (but it does indeed suck, and we need godly gear to compensate).

Fend is badass with ethereal Hone Sundan socketed with IAS jewels. But it won't get us through /players8 Hell. For that, we need ethereal Breath of the Dying.

 

[Shadenuat]

the +1 light radius (no more, +2 would be too much) was obviously necessary balancing feature on that rune recipe.

 

[Lilura]

the +1 light radius (no more, +2 would be too much) was obviously necessary balancing feature on that rune recipe.

har. har. srsly, though, ever played /players8 Hell mode in single-player? The runeword is not OP even on Frenzybarbs.

 

[Shadenuat]

I played /8 sure, as a challenge, but long time ago. I am more interested in challenge of running gimmicky dumb builds though since it's more interesting.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Looks like King Content Lilura just likes to cheat her way through. Huge summoned mobs and probably console commanding sets in her inventory. Very large decline, very large.

 

[Shadenuat]

How players have fun in single player is their own business.

If anything, I'd add even more console commands for the players if I was developer, to allow them test builds and do what the fuck they want.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

How players have fun in single player is their own business.

If anything, I'd add even more console commands for the players if I was developer, to allow them test builds and do what the fuck they want.

Sounds boring to me, but you're right. To each their own. I just expected King Content to be more prestigious than that.

 

[luj1]

1.10 rune words ruined Diablo 2.

Not the runewords themselves, but them being OP as compared to other items in the game. Not a huge deal though, as there could have been far worse things. Synergies are fine. Overall, Diablo II: Lord of Destruction remains the best game of this type.

 

[Lilura]

I am more interested in challenge of running gimmicky dumb builds

Just play a Druid then.

 

[Reapa]

Not sure why D2 is supposed to be decline. To me it's the best Diablo game (never played D3 but let's be honest...).

On RPG and atmosphere is a SMALL(tinny) decline.

A sorcerer becoming better at thowing fireballs by reading tomes is better than him becoming better by investing skill points. Anyway, both systems are far superior to him becoming better by finding a bigger and sharper axe.

But in longevity, action combat, etc improved a lot.

PS : You are not missing anything with "never played D3"

Here is why

he says there's so much stuff and none of it feels important but when one piece of equipment breaks then he does 0 dmg.
how the fuck can the stuff not be important when it's literally the only thing that matters???
how retarded are you to post such a video?
and what's with these people getting money during their shows and thanking people for their measly 1 dollar contributions? what does that do for me as a viewer? why would i want to watch you break a line of thought and/or argument to thank some retard for a fucking dollar like a fucking beggar? the guy doesn't even take off his clothes after getting money so it's even inferior to chatturbate shows.

 

[DraQ]

Decline in nutshell.

From D1 to D2, you see some decline on RPG value and atmosphere, but the game got more longevity. From D2 to D3, was a pure decline.

And D1 remains the only one you could describe as "tense".

Plus WTF is this retardation with 10^9 damage numbers in 3?

How roleplaying systems die: illustrated.

Cue internal screaming.

Damage numbers and Stats should works as a measurement. Eg, a 8 STR guy in D&D has bellow average physical strength. I can't expect him to be able to fully draw a warbow. If they become too inflated, they lose his meaning. Like currency and D3 numbers are more inflated than Zimbabwe currency and Weimar republic combined not that Diablo 3 din't already have killed all meaning of stats by making you muscle mass an IQ scales with how "shine" your boots are...

Quoted for emphasis.

Also, someone please finally fucking send Larian the fucking memo.

 

[Cryomancer]

he says there's so much stuff and none of it feels important but when one piece of equipment breaks then he does 0 dmg.
how the fuck can the stuff not be important when it's literally the only thing that matters???

None feels important because unless you find a specific set piece who can boost your damage by +564376537456437653%, nothing that you find matters.

Is that hard to understand that he is criticizing that armor on D3 doesn't looks nor act like armor? That combat sucks, char progression sucks, leveling sucks, itemization sucks and the game is a wow cloen?

 

[DraQ]

Diablo 1 was a very finite progression roguelite.
The decline set in D2 where it tried to take turn it into an infinite progression MMOLite Skinnerian grindfest.

In D1 you had to adapt - to the finite stuff you found, finite stuff you could buy and to the (thankfully also finite) enemies that were randomized.
In D2 you could just grind diablo- and later bhaalruns until stuff you wanted fell out, so you could complete your dream build(TM).

TBH D2 is also badly inflated, especially itemization.
I reached level 50 with my necro on NM. I have +3-4 all skills and some items with +3 on some other skills. Amu, dagger, OrtSol, shield, that kind of thing.

There are a HUGE difference between D2 post runewords inflation to D3 inflation. D2 inflation is more akin to modern Argentina, D3 inflation is more akin to Weimar Republic or maybe Zimbabwe inflation. Even with all OP runewords of D2, i never saw a build dealing more than 30k damage while on D3, you complete a set and start to do dozens of millions of damage

So what you're saying is you want the difference between playing for 1 hour and 50 hours to be not quite doubling your stats.

See dark souls, is the ARPG with best character progression that i saw. Most stats has diminishing returns and leveling up becomes much more expensive.

Progression via number inflation is the least kind of progression. Progression via added capabilities is better.
HP and damage/DPS is the least kind of number inflation.

If you have to progress by number incrementing, you need a cap of some sort.
Numbers only mean anything in relation to each other.
When your numbers are 9 fucking orders of magnitude from one another they no longer relate meaningfully.

For energy this is about the difference between an assault rifle bullet and a fucking Hiroshima.
For range it's about the difference between a rat's bite and an ICBM.

This is not the kind of numbers that meaningfully relate to one another when put on supposedly the same time of objects (like sword VS sword).

IF you do need to have infinite progression, you can base your mechanics on opposed stats.

 

[Shadenuat]

Infinite progression means that eventually your early and midgame choices (and every choice ever, really) become overriden and so lose any meaning. So your character, which is a result of your choices and sometimes mistakes loses what made it yours too.

Like my Necro who used white +3 Golem headshield because it was useful to me to have high slow on golem. Only 40+ levels later I replaced it with imbued head with +2 Lower Resist curse, a skill I do not actually have, but can increase with other +skill items, so now I have options between +physical damage curse, a cc curse and -resists curse meaning I can use poison damage on enemies resistant to it (like undead; before it was corpse explosion and mercenary job).

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I'm so happy I found this great item in Diablo 1.

Really will go a long way in helping me. So, what item did you find in D2? Anything as good as-

Oh.

Oh okay.

 

[J1M]

Do as I do, play LoD expansion with 1.09 patch. Problem solved. Also spares you the retarded synergy system. Now if only I could mod it so the weaker spells and skills get a boost to be more worthwhile. Also the game needed more magic immune as a big middle finger to Hammerdin.

I don't think that synergies are a problem. I mean, if you become better at casting fireballs, makes sense that you will also becom better at casting firebolt. The problem is that they implemented synergies in the most retarded way possible. I only liked it on Druid, eg, fire elemental skills increase fire claw(other tree) damage. Cyclone armor increase hurricane duration. IMO bone skills should buff skeleton survivability because if you learned how to materialize a stronger bone wall, why not use the knowledge/power to create a better skeleton? In other words, synergies should been implemented to increase the build diversity, immersion and role play, not to reduce. Immunities are also a problem in D2 - Hell not because immunities are bad, but because is too common. A fire elemental immune to fire is fine. Regular weak imps are not fine. Do you know how many fire immune mobs are on Dark Souls 2? Only one. Demons are high resistent vs fire but not immune.

What you propose sounds like the exact opposite of build diversity. In order to have good fire damage you'd have to give up everything else.

They should have went with something simpler and more flexible, such as "+1% effectiveness per character level to each skill".

 

[Shadenuat]

Oh.

Oh okay.

 

[J1M]

I am very confused by people posting screenshots from Diablo 2 mods with highly inflated stats as criticisms of the game.

It just makes you look retarded and like you never played the game.

 

[GrainWetski]

I'm so happy I found this great item in Diablo 1.

Really will go a long way in helping me. So, what item did you find in D2? Anything as good as-

Oh.

Oh okay.

None of those skills exist in Diablo 2. Silly to post Median XL or whatever it is.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I wonder why those retarded fan made items exist in the first place.

 

[Viata]

Plus WTF is this retardation with 10^9 damage numbers in 3?

Feels like some shitty MMORPG/JRPG. That was really shit. "Big numbers means amazing", I guess.

 

[Cryomancer]

Feels like some shitty MMORPG/JRPG. That was really shit. "Big numbers means amazing", I guess.

Progression via number inflation is the least kind of progression. Progression via added capabilities is better.
HP and damage/DPS is the least kind of number inflation.

If you have to progress by number incrementing, you need a cap of some sort.
Numbers only mean anything in relation to each other.
When your numbers are 9 fucking orders of magnitude from one another they no longer relate meaningfully.

Yes, like Dark Souls SOFTCAPS and diminishing returns. Eg, the VIT gain from 10 to 30 is much bigger than from 50 to 99.

Also, damage should work as a measurement. Eg, "this fireball is deadly as a cannon", so i expect that both have a similar damage, not exacly the same, eg, 10d8 vs 10* ( d6 + feat), will be difference on damage but not significant. Same on dark souls, i was comparing my Dark Orb HEX with Ballista shot, not only in damage but also in capability to break "poise" when i reached Iron Keep in my first Dark Sorcerer(Hexer) run.

But i love also non damage progression. Necromancer on D2 start with a single weak skeleton and end the game with a huge undead army is amazing. On D3, a necro learn how to create a skeleton and can create 7 skeletons scaling with the size and sharpness of his axe. After becoming level cap(like everyone else), unlocking above god nephalem power, etc, finding a amazing boot who increases his IQ by 564654765654643*10²³%, he can reanimate 7 skeleton who are strong as the weight and sharpness of his axe. The unique difference is that one can throw bigger numbers that means nothing and are inflated like Zimbabwe currency.

PS : Again about D2 LOD inflation. It exists? yes. It is silly? Yes, but is nothing compared to D3 inflation. Is like compare the modern Argentina Inflation with Weimar Republic or Zimbabwe inflation.

 

[Reapa]

he says there's so much stuff and none of it feels important but when one piece of equipment breaks then he does 0 dmg.
how the fuck can the stuff not be important when it's literally the only thing that matters???

None feels important because unless you find a specific set piece who can boost your damage by +564376537456437653%, nothing that you find matters.

Is that hard to understand that he is criticizing that armor on D3 doesn't looks nor act like armor? That combat sucks, char progression sucks, leveling sucks, itemization sucks and the game is a wow cloen?

the only way to know in advance what specific items you need to advance is to spoil yourself with wikis. if you do, you are to blame that the game sucks no mater what game you play. there's always a best in slot for any given build in any game.
i don't see how there's any difference between d2 and d3 in that regard and i don't see how it matters what armor acts as in that argument.
furthermore, sometimes what you need can be more crit dmg or more crit or more attack speed, so a specific piece of equipment may not be needed unless you copy some retarded ideal build from somewhere. if that is the case you both spoil the exploration and refuse to play the game the way it's meant: by incrementally getting better with the stuff you find. to me, someone that just throws away equipment without looking at it sounds just like what i have described and is better off doing something else because he doesn't understand playing.
you're not supposed to game(=cheat) the game, you are supposed to play it if you want a game to be fun.

 

[Cryomancer]

the only way to know in advance what specific items you need to advance is to spoil yourself with wikis. if you do, you are to blame that the game sucks no mater what game you play. there's always a best in slot for any given build in any game.
i don't see how there's any difference between d2 and d3 in that regard and i don't see how it matters what armor acts as in that argument.

Yes, there are no difference. A game who allow you to beat on max difficulty naked and a game where you can't kill the weakest imp with whites are equally gear dependent. Armor not working to deflect blows is amazing, there are no difference in the two games. /sarcasm

Now seriously. A wand with +casting speed can be amazing for a bonemancer and useless for a poisonmancer. Do you really don't see the difference of having tons of affixes to only caring about damage???

 

[DraQ]

Also, damage should work as a measurement. Eg, "this fireball is deadly as a cannon", so i expect that both have a similar damage

Quoted for emphasis.