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From Software The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

Hyperion

Arcane
Joined
Jul 2, 2016
Messages
2,120
every other Souls game beats it in gameplay
Maybe it's because I like dungeon crawlers, but I really missed the inventory management of DeS. I liked that you needed to keep an eye on your weight. Even though you could carry 99 of every grass, it added up and certainly could cause some hindrance picking stuff up if you didn't plan out how much of each grass, or what shields to bring with you. Maybe it's because DeS was the first of its kind, but playing DS I never once felt the type of terror I did turning a blind corner in The Tower of Latria and getting stunlocked by a Mindflayer because I didn't pay attention to the chimes. I also don't obsess over the connectivity of DS1's world (nor did DS2's 'illogical' world design of having a lava castle over a valley of fart clouds bother me), and find stage-selection works better overall, while still keeping the game cohesive since you can start at 1-1, and run straight through to 1-4 once you reach the appropriate point in the story arc. While the Tower of Latria's first area was a masterclass of atmospheric dungeon design, Boletaria may very well be my favorite Souls area. I like it even more than the Old Iron King DLC.

It's weird that I know DS1 is beloved, but I don't hold it as dearly in my heart as DeS, have far fewer fond memories of it, and was honestly quite frustrated playing it most of the time because I kept comparing it to DeS. Sen's Fortress was great though, I'll give it that.
 
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LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ls-modders-figure-out-how-to-make-custom-maps

Eight years after release, Dark Souls modders figure out how to make custom maps
Happy Bonfire Night.


It might be surprising, but until this point it's been pretty much impossible to import a custom map into the original Dark Souls. According to Souls modders, the closest you could get was importing maps from Demon's Souls - and while modders have worked on custom maps for some time, problems with the specific file format used for collision detection in Dark Souls 1 meant that progress was stalled.

Until now, that is, as several modders have figured out a way to import working custom maps into the game.

As explained by modder Zullie, progress began in earnest when modder Meowmaritus created a tool to import models, but without collision detection (in layman's terms, the physics required to make things actually solid). The next step was carried out by modder Horkrux, who recently developed a way to create collision maps.

ladder_min.gif


Why was it so hard to get to this point? As modder Katalash explained on Reddit, all Dark Souls games use the proprietary (essentially secret) file format Havok to store collision data, with FromSoftware adding their own customisations on top. "To further complicate matters, the file format and stored data change drastically between game to game," Katalash added. But Horkrux figured out that using an old version of Havok Content Tools (that were released publicly for only a short window of time before Havok stopped distributing them) would allow them to create collision maps in Dark Souls 1, Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition and Dark Souls 2.

"Simply put, we were apparently way overthinking it," Zullie told me over Discord.

"We had initially thought we'd have to reverse engineer the collision format that Dark Souls uses in order to be able to generate custom collision, but Horkrux figured out how to do it just by using official Havok tools. It turns out FromSoftware didn't make anything especially fancy, Horkrux just needed to make a template for Havok."

After Meowmaritus and Horkrux figured out the framework, Dropoff undertook the final stage by working to import the Half-Life map Crossfire as proof of concept (something Zullie told me took considerable work to get to a usable state). Check it out in the video below:



While this is a significant breakthrough for the Dark Souls modding community, both Katalash and Zullie believe there's still a long way to go before importing custom maps becomes an easy process.

"The Souls modding community is lacking any sort of formal support, but more than makes up for it in passion," Zullie said. "A few years ago it was a Herculean effort to just put a new model for a weapon into the game. We're continually picking the game apart and then developing the tools to streamline it."

"However, I don't imagine anyone's likely to make an automated process for this while navmeshes remain an obstacle, since the practical applications would be pretty scarce," she added. (Navigation meshes are necessary to help NPCs and enemies pathfind around a map - and like collision data, navmesh data varies wildly between the Souls games.)

"Without them, the best we can essentially make would be strictly PvP focused arenas. With them, we could create entirely new, fully functional levels for the game - player published DLC, for all intents."

It seems like a difficult but promising future for Dark Souls modders - and with Katalash (author of the Unity-based visual map editor DSTools) and others looking into making tools to create navmesh files, we could see some truly exciting mods in the coming years.
 

yellowcake

Arcane
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
2,907
Location
Alas! in my skull
Stray demon is a bastard at first, but once you find the exploit he becomes really easy.
This is what you do-

See his huge ass? Pound it like a cheap whore. No, really, just hit his ass. His AoE attacks only really hit the front of him, so if you stay behind him he won't hit you. I do recall there being a little bit of a shock wave that can reach behind though, so you might have to back off now and then. Shields with high magic resist tend to help as well, as his AoE is pure magical damage, iirc. Also, sometimes his AI will break and he'll just repeat doing the butt slam, so back off, wait for him to land and repeat. He's basically a big, more dangerous ogre from DS2.
Also, bleed is your friend. Unlike Dark Souls 3, Demons in Dark Souls 1 have shit bleed resistance.


Alright, he's done. Took me a week of two hour sessions to figure him out in the end this evening and then it became easy. Yeah you have to stay behind him, that's true, but you also have to be aggressive and hit him EVERY time he recovers from his magic attack. If you won't hit him right when the fumes from his attack are dispersing, he will change position thus depriving you of the opening and forcing to run circle. If you hit him at the right time you provoke next magic attack and thus next opening to strike. Got him first time when I figured this out. Before this, I was running circles around him screaming STOP FUCKING TURNIG! for a few days of attempts. Killed right shoulder button in my controller and replaced it in the meantime.
 
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Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,015
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...ls-modders-figure-out-how-to-make-custom-maps

Eight years after release, Dark Souls modders figure out how to make custom maps
Happy Bonfire Night.


It might be surprising, but until this point it's been pretty much impossible to import a custom map into the original Dark Souls. According to Souls modders, the closest you could get was importing maps from Demon's Souls - and while modders have worked on custom maps for some time, problems with the specific file format used for collision detection in Dark Souls 1 meant that progress was stalled.

Until now, that is, as several modders have figured out a way to import working custom maps into the game.

As explained by modder Zullie, progress began in earnest when modder Meowmaritus created a tool to import models, but without collision detection (in layman's terms, the physics required to make things actually solid). The next step was carried out by modder Horkrux, who recently developed a way to create collision maps.

ladder_min.gif


Why was it so hard to get to this point? As modder Katalash explained on Reddit, all Dark Souls games use the proprietary (essentially secret) file format Havok to store collision data, with FromSoftware adding their own customisations on top. "To further complicate matters, the file format and stored data change drastically between game to game," Katalash added. But Horkrux figured out that using an old version of Havok Content Tools (that were released publicly for only a short window of time before Havok stopped distributing them) would allow them to create collision maps in Dark Souls 1, Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition and Dark Souls 2.

"Simply put, we were apparently way overthinking it," Zullie told me over Discord.

"We had initially thought we'd have to reverse engineer the collision format that Dark Souls uses in order to be able to generate custom collision, but Horkrux figured out how to do it just by using official Havok tools. It turns out FromSoftware didn't make anything especially fancy, Horkrux just needed to make a template for Havok."

After Meowmaritus and Horkrux figured out the framework, Dropoff undertook the final stage by working to import the Half-Life map Crossfire as proof of concept (something Zullie told me took considerable work to get to a usable state). Check it out in the video below:



While this is a significant breakthrough for the Dark Souls modding community, both Katalash and Zullie believe there's still a long way to go before importing custom maps becomes an easy process.

"The Souls modding community is lacking any sort of formal support, but more than makes up for it in passion," Zullie said. "A few years ago it was a Herculean effort to just put a new model for a weapon into the game. We're continually picking the game apart and then developing the tools to streamline it."

"However, I don't imagine anyone's likely to make an automated process for this while navmeshes remain an obstacle, since the practical applications would be pretty scarce," she added. (Navigation meshes are necessary to help NPCs and enemies pathfind around a map - and like collision data, navmesh data varies wildly between the Souls games.)

"Without them, the best we can essentially make would be strictly PvP focused arenas. With them, we could create entirely new, fully functional levels for the game - player published DLC, for all intents."

It seems like a difficult but promising future for Dark Souls modders - and with Katalash (author of the Unity-based visual map editor DSTools) and others looking into making tools to create navmesh files, we could see some truly exciting mods in the coming years.

Or, you know, they could've spent that time and effort making a good souls-like game instead.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,135
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
It's weird that I know DS1 is beloved, but I don't hold it as dearly in my heart as DeS, have far fewer fond memories of it, and was honestly quite frustrated playing it most of the time because I kept comparing it to DeS. Sen's Fortress was great though, I'll give it that.

DS1 is closest to my heart and I've never even played DeS. But I've seen maybe 5 playthroughs, mostly by ENB and Lobos, and can absolutely see where the love is coming from. Sure, the game is clunky in many ways, way too clunky in some, but I think the fighting still holds up, including most boss fights.

And the vibe is so unique. I'm so torn over a potential remaster/remake. I don't know what would make me rage more - if they only scaled it up to higher rezzes and 60 FPS ála DS1R and keep all the UI clunkiness, the retarded world tendency system, the broken magic, the stupidly convoluted upgrade mechanics, unbalanced items and other shit. Or if they went the FFVII route and in the process bulldoze everything great too.
 

RoSoDude

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
730
I'm so torn over a potential remaster/remake. I don't know what would make me rage more - if they only scaled it up to higher rezzes and 60 FPS ála DS1R and keep all the UI clunkiness, the retarded world tendency system, the broken magic, the stupidly convoluted upgrade mechanics, unbalanced items and other shit. Or if they went the FFVII route and in the process bulldoze everything great too.
Keep all the bullshit please (UI improvements at maximum). I want to experience it for myself as God From intended.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,730
Location
Frostfell
Dark Souls good because doesn't have most modern BS, handholdings, cooldowns, carnival like wow armor, the difficulty is here but is fair and is not just a gear check wall, etc.
 

bat_boro

Arcane
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
1,532
I bought the Dark Souls Remaster for PS4 some time ago.

The question I have is the following, can I viably play and finish this in 40-60 minutes sessions in between feeding a baby and changing diapers usually between 6 - 7 am in the morning?

Serious question btw, it doesn't really seem viable from what I've heard about the game, at the same time, it looks and sounds awesome. Then again, I'm really hesitant to start it, since it seems that with the above in mind, it would be a chore to progress, let alone finish. What do you guys think?
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,933
Location
The Swamp
I bought the Dark Souls Remaster for PS4 some time ago.

The question I have is the following, can I viably play and finish this in 40-60 minutes sessions in between feeding a baby and changing diapers usually between 6 - 7 am in the morning?

Serious question btw, it doesn't really seem viable from what I've heard about the game, at the same time, it looks and sounds awesome. Then again, I'm really hesitant to start it, since it seems that with the above in mind, it would be a chore to progress, let alone finish. What do you guys think?

I think any game can eventually be finished with restrictions like that. Some games will simply take longer than others.
 

bat_boro

Arcane
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
1,532
I bought the Dark Souls Remaster for PS4 some time ago.

The question I have is the following, can I viably play and finish this in 40-60 minutes sessions in between feeding a baby and changing diapers usually between 6 - 7 am in the morning?

Serious question btw, it doesn't really seem viable from what I've heard about the game, at the same time, it looks and sounds awesome. Then again, I'm really hesitant to start it, since it seems that with the above in mind, it would be a chore to progress, let alone finish. What do you guys think?

I think any game can eventually be finished with restrictions like that. Some games will simply take longer than others.

True, it's just that I see how I may play for 40-60 minutes and not really progress, what with all the deaths and all. I suppose it would be more of a weekly progress than a daily one, especially in the beginning.
 

yellowcake

Arcane
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
2,907
Location
Alas! in my skull
I only do 2 hour sessions three - four times a week, although I spent a whole weekend with it at the start. I admit I watched a couple episodes youtube beginner's walkthrough that helped me learn the basics. I have made a few attempts at playing it before for some time and it felt impenetrable. Now I know it is perfectly OK to go in blindly provided the time necessary, the game doesn't punish mistakes. I appreciate it now very much, it is like a precious gem with its crystalline structure.
 

cruel

Cipher
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
868
Just remember to upgrade weapons and you will be OK. Reading too much ruins this magical first time Dark Souls experience

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
4,119
Location
Chicago, IL, Kwa
I bought the Dark Souls Remaster for PS4 some time ago.

The question I have is the following, can I viably play and finish this in 40-60 minutes sessions in between feeding a baby and changing diapers usually between 6 - 7 am in the morning?

Serious question btw, it doesn't really seem viable from what I've heard about the game, at the same time, it looks and sounds awesome. Then again, I'm really hesitant to start it, since it seems that with the above in mind, it would be a chore to progress, let alone finish. What do you guys think?


I literally have been doing exactly that, and I just finished Bed of Chaos. Admittedly though, this is not my first play through for everything but the DLC, so it might be a pretty steep learning curve for you before you see real progress.

Also get ready to rage when you’ve gotten Ornstein and Smough almost completely defeated and the baby wakes up screaming in the next room with no way to pause.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,135
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
So the Youtube recommending algorithm threw this into my face again and god, what a great video, even tho it's only a parody of a RL skit.

Anyway, anyone has any idea how people do shit like that? Modders have full access to the engine and they somehow map the characters on motion captured people or some such? Baffling.

 
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Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,241
Fairly certain they are extracting the model and level data and importing them in something else to make the video in a much more friendly engine. Note how the lighting of the levels is all different (much more flat) and there's no distant background at the end. I have no experience with this but a quick search shows that you can download the models ready to import into source film maker.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,084
So the Youtube recommending algorithm threw this into my face again and god, what a great video, even tho it's only a parody of a RL skit.

Anyway, anyone has any idea how people do shit like that? Modders have full access to the engine and they somehow map the characters on motion captured people or some such? Baffling.



Garry's Mod + post processing.
 
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Kitchen Utensil

Guest
So the Youtube recommending algorithm threw this into my face again and god, what a great video, even tho it's only a parody of a RL skit.



Yeah, that video really is one of the best things ever created.
This one's also great:

 

overly excitable young man

Guest
Dark Souls 2 is starting to bore me. I am in this black white castle after you gathered all those big souls.

It's the exact same as DS 1.
Bonfires are on the other end of the map.
First you clear the level and take all items, which are mostly useless except Titanite and Human Effigies.
And then you just run through the level to the next boss, die a few times till you have seen every attack of the boss and win.
Rince and repeat 40 times.

Is DS 3 different or just the same as the first two?
 

Lutte

Dumbfuck!
Dumbfuck
Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
1,968
Location
DU's mom
DS3 has the best bosses of the series and the worst everything else, so if you are tired of both ds1 and ds2 it's unlikely to be appealing to you. DS3 levels are exceedingly boring to traverse, with a few exceptions (cathedral, irithyll), consisting of many large open spaces with mediocre enemies and enemy placement. Playing through DS3 felt like I was speedrunning the game going from boss to boss on my first blind run.

Build diversity is the worst of the series too and they made every weapon feel inferior in burning down bosses compared to just going straight sword or tWINblades.
 

Akratus

Self-loathing fascist drunken misogynist asshole
Patron
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
0
Location
The Netherlands
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
So the Youtube recommending algorithm threw this into my face again and god, what a great video, even tho it's only a parody of a RL skit.

Anyway, anyone has any idea how people do shit like that? Modders have full access to the engine and they somehow map the characters on motion captured people or some such? Baffling.


It's not made in the Dark Souls engine. I'd guess Source Film Maker, with models and levels and such ripped from the DS gamefiles. And I'd guess the use of a Kinect for budget motion capture, there's third party tools for such things on pc I believe.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
14,730
Location
Frostfell
DS 3, in my opinion, feels more like a celebration of everything souls. I think it's better than 2, but apparently I am in the minority.

Depends. I know that DS2 received a lot of hate. Sure, has bad mechanic. ADP and Soul Memory are awful, but

  • Best "fashion souls"
  • Best NG+
  • Most build diversity on PvP and PvE
  • Less gimmicky bosses
  • More open than 3 but still less interlinked than 1
  • Best character progression and building on the series.

Dark Souls 3 is too much focused on speed, not precision, has too much gimmicky bosses, is extremely linear and is extremely rare to see someone(mob or player) using non swords in the game,
 

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