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World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

AdamReith

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
The guys that did Bloodlines 1 strike me as classical liberals.

Why do you people say this about anyone with a potentially offensive sense of humor? Classical liberalism is just libertarianism with less marijuana. Classical liberals are committed to free markets, free trade, limited economic regulation and low taxes above all else—I really didn’t get that vibe from Bloodlines. They’re also called 19th century liberals because in the 20th and 21st centuries they are simply conservatives (sometimes people who’ve been raised in an anti-conservative environment will call themselves classical liberals to avoid cognitive dissonance).

Neither Mitsoda nor Boyarsky come off as libertarians. Bloodlines was made by Southern California Democrats with a bit of a gen X anarchist streak. The game is laced with straight political partisanship. It’s just that the game was made in 2004 so the issues that were salient then are not necessarily salient now. And stuff that was merely normal then—a little racism, a little sexism—comes off as a lot more politically charged than it was fifteen years ago.

Brian Mitsoda hired Cara Ellison, so I really doubt he considers her politics antithetical to the spirit of the franchise he created.

Whatever flavor of liberalism they adhered to it definitely felt grounded in common sense. Honestly I don't care what a persons politics are if they are capable of intelligent, clever writing that is able to immerse me. That Generation X stuff for example has always really appealed to me and fits so well into an RPG despite the fact that I would find anyone holding those opinions in real life incredibly naive and unbearable company.

Cara Ellison does not seem grounded in common sense or capable of separating a fantasy world from her own issues based on this interview. That's before I apply all my personal bias against people like her of which there is a lot in fairness.
 

Chippy

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The guys that did Bloodlines 1 strike me as classical liberals.

Why do you people say this about anyone with a potentially offensive sense of humor? Classical liberalism is just libertarianism with less marijuana. Classical liberals are committed to free markets, free trade, limited economic regulation and low taxes above all else—I really didn’t get that vibe from Bloodlines. They’re also called 19th century liberals because in the 20th and 21st centuries they are simply conservatives (sometimes people who’ve been raised in an anti-conservative environment will call themselves classical liberals to avoid cognitive dissonance).

Neither Mitsoda nor Boyarsky come off as libertarians. Bloodlines was made by Southern California Democrats with a bit of a gen X anarchist streak. The game is laced with straight political partisanship. It’s just that the game was made in 2004 so the issues that were salient then are not necessarily salient now. And stuff that was merely normal then—a little racism, a little sexism—comes off as a lot more politically charged than it was fifteen years ago.

Brian Mitsoda hired Cara Ellison, so I really doubt he considers her politics antithetical to the spirit of the franchise he created.

It's just an assumption based on the overall content of the game - you've got the radio ads at the expense of republicans, the owner of the gothic bar in downtown - bit and pieces like that. I don't think there was much fun being poked at lefties from the right, but it didn't matter becasue the game was grounded. The thing is that with "classical liberals" you could be centre-right (or even more to the right) and still sit in a bar and have a pint, a conversation, and take the piss out of each other. These are the ones that would be 40+ now.

But you've got this Carrie Ellison type of liberal that's doing an interview, and instead of talking about an IP that allows her to use any human from any time in history - her priorities are in letting everone know immidiately that "It's an amazing challenge" for writers to provide a level of quality by not offending people with her use of the/any ugly word.

Kyl Von Kull I'm not directing this specifically at your post to contradict it, just using it as a way of responding to the overall discussion on the thread - and that other poster a while back who said something about people reading too much into Carrie Ellison's interviews - and discounting the entire game.
 

Roguey

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And stuff that was merely normal then—a little racism, a little sexism—comes off as a lot more politically charged than it was fifteen years ago.
D2RQw1oXcAIjz2r

I'm sure they've changed their minds about newspapers.
 

Zombra

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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
But you've got this Carrie Ellison type of liberal that's doing an interview, and instead of talking about an IP that allows her to use any human from any time in history - her priorities are in letting everone know immidiately that "It's an amazing challenge" for writers to provide a level of quality by not offending people with her use of the/any ugly word.
As an experiment, I googled "Cara Ellison Bloodlines 2 interview" and skimmed the first three articles that came up. Not a word about inclusiveness, inoffensiveness, or modern politics. She does say "politics are at the center of our game", referring not to modern liberal politics, but to the genre bedrock trope of vampires manipulating humans.

Seriously, we all know she talks about liberal politics sometimes, but to deny that she ever talks about anything else is really dumb. You are cherry picking.
 

fantadomat

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Chippy

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
But you've got this Carrie Ellison type of liberal that's doing an interview, and instead of talking about an IP that allows her to use any human from any time in history - her priorities are in letting everone know immidiately that "It's an amazing challenge" for writers to provide a level of quality by not offending people with her use of the/any ugly word.
As an experiment, I googled "Cara Ellison Bloodlines 2 interview" and skimmed the first three articles that came up. Not a word about inclusiveness, inoffensiveness, or modern politics. She does say "politics are at the center of our game", referring not to modern liberal politics, but to the genre bedrock trope of vampires manipulating humans.

Seriously, we all know she talks about liberal politics sometimes, but to deny that she ever talks about anything else is really dumb. You are cherry picking.

Yes I am - that's my whole point. Even though I've only read the article Infinitron posted and 3 others where she wasn't even mentioned. It's irrelevant because - as I said - you establish she's a textbook modern lefty, and they censor themselves by prioritizing their politics over their art.

The logic behind it (to me) is like someone making a porno - with every possible taboo included - and then insisting that they have to recruit all actors, directors, writers, etc...from an Amish village.

And then people say: "You're over-reacting and discounting the entire product becasue of your perceptions of libruls". Ok - but show me a librul game that's as good as the classics. Show me an Amish porno. ;)

image.jpg

 

santino27

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
But you've got this Carrie Ellison type of liberal that's doing an interview, and instead of talking about an IP that allows her to use any human from any time in history - her priorities are in letting everone know immidiately that "It's an amazing challenge" for writers to provide a level of quality by not offending people with her use of the/any ugly word.
As an experiment, I googled "Cara Ellison Bloodlines 2 interview" and skimmed the first three articles that came up. Not a word about inclusiveness, inoffensiveness, or modern politics. She does say "politics are at the center of our game", referring not to modern liberal politics, but to the genre bedrock trope of vampires manipulating humans.

Seriously, we all know she talks about liberal politics sometimes, but to deny that she ever talks about anything else is really dumb. You are cherry picking.

Yes I am - that's my whole point. Even though I've only read the article Infinitron posted and 3 others where she wasn't even mentioned. It's irrelevant because - as I said - you establish she's a textbook modern lefty, and they censor themselves by prioritizing their politics over their art.

The logic behind it (to me) is like someone making a porno - with every possible taboo included - and then insisting that they have to recruit all actors, directors, writers, etc...from an Amish village.

And then people say: "You're over-reacting and discounting the entire product becasue of your perceptions of libruls". Ok - but show me a librul game that's as good as the classics. Show me an Amish porno. ;)

image.jpg

8/10... would do that milkmaid if I was 20+ years younger. :P
Would prefer not to have an audience of cows, but there are good and bad aspects to the pastoral life.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
You establish she's a textbook modern lefty, and they censor themselves by prioritizing their politics over their art.
You're doing exactly what I said. You see pink hair and say "Well I can't play this then" because anything "they" do will automatically ←important never be good enough for you.

Show me a librul game that's as good as the classics.
Rolleyes. You're suggesting that "the classics" (whatever that subjective list is in your mind) were only made by conservatives? And ditto for every quality game of more recent make? I think there'd be a rude awakening if we had some kind of mental x-ray machine to call up lists of devs of games you like and map their politics on a spreadsheet.

Honestly I don't obsessively track the politics of game devs, but offhand I'll name The Witness since Jonathan Blow is well-known for his goofy personal beliefs. That game is fucking brilliant. Go ahead and move the goalposts now ... "But that isn't a first person vampire RPG!!" I'll wait.
 

Chippy

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You establish she's a textbook modern lefty, and they censor themselves by prioritizing their politics over their art.
You're doing exactly what I said. You see pink hair and say "Well I can't play this then" because anything "they" do will automatically ←important never be good enough for you.

Show me a librul game that's as good as the classics.
Rolleyes. You're suggesting that "the classics" (whatever that subjective list is in your mind) were only made by conservatives? And ditto for every quality game of more recent make? I think there'd be a rude awakening if we had some kind of mental x-ray machine to call up lists of devs of games you like and map their politics on a spreadsheet.

Honestly I don't obsessively track the politics of game devs, but offhand I'll name The Witness since Jonathan Blow is well-known for his goofy personal beliefs. That game is fucking brilliant. Go ahead and move the goalposts now ... "But that isn't a first person vampire RPG!!" I'll wait.

I've made my points, and the goalposts are clearly marked. Autism isn't really a positive hobby of mine. :decline:
 

Ibn Sina

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Jul 12, 2017
Messages
921
Strap Yourselves In
The black woman looks like man. I am not sure anymore with those western developers. They design men who look like women, and women who look like men. May allah have mercy upon us!
 

AdamReith

Magister
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Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
2,109
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
The black woman looks like man. I am not sure anymore with those western developers. They design men who look like women, and women who look like men. May allah have mercy upon us!

I'm impressed how they managed to produce characters without the slightest hint of personality. It's like something from the poser default library.

As much as I love hate trains I better bow out of this thread, it's not going to do my blood pressure any good to follow the development of this game.
 

vota DC

Augur
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
2,258
The black woman looks like man. I am not sure anymore with those western developers. They design men who look like women, and women who look like men. May allah have mercy upon us!
Also shouldn't be Josephine a blonde white midget?
 

Lemon

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2002
Messages
4,563
The black woman looks like man. I am not sure anymore with those western developers. They design men who look like women, and women who look like men. May allah have mercy upon us!

Well that only makes sense, we're teaching our men to be women these days.
 

Riddler

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Jan 5, 2009
Messages
2,353
Bubbles In Memoria
The black woman looks like man.
that's the only thing they've gotten right, negroid women display little neoteny and are commonly found the ugliest of all races

when they're not found the ugliest, it's because someone remembered abos exist

I see you haven't been reading the ASS thread.
 

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