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Diablo IV

Gregz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
8,540
Location
The Desert Wasteland
If this kind of game appeals to you, play Diablo II with Median XL mod.

It's the pinnacle.

I've received some PMs about this, here's more info if anyone is interested

---PM snippet---

Yes, the Forumer incident... :(

I actually haven't finished the entire mod with any character, I think. I finished vanilla LoD and all vanilla LoD ubers with a Summonmancer and a Trapsin. With Median, I started many different characters, but didn't finish all ubers with any of them.

Median had so many great changes, it's amazing. Spells like Fortress, Lorenado, Singularity, a shitton of great RWs, SSUs, tiered unituqes, signets... I remember having a Treewarden Druid with Nimmenjuushin axe. Nimmen got nerfed at some point due to the Tornado procs lagging the screen, but the nerf just made the build even better because now it lagged less :)

Trying to do ubers for the first time ever was epic... Tran Athulua with amazons casting Phalanx...

It seems Sigma went more in the direction of D3 with the addition of Rift levels, and more D3-esque graphics.

I checked their guides for current patch chars, but there's barely any around...

It's the best mod I've ever seen. Prophesy of Pendor and JA2 1.13 are probably my next favorites.

On my last playthrough I leveled a summoner necro and then a pouncesin.

The last two or so uberlevels are just impossible, you have to level a character with a specific build just to do them (Barbarian), so that's usually when I quit playing.

Nimmen got nerfed at some point due to the Tornado procs lagging the screen, but the nerf just made the build even better because now it lagged less

You can scan for patch changes and nerfs here: http://modianhelp.anhei3.net/MXLU_vXVc_Doc_v2.94/log.html#

guide: http://modsbylaz.vn.cz/
 

typical user

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Messages
957
Perhaps they intended it to be so. Did you notice symbols in Arcane Sanctuary where Summoner is? Maybe it could have worked as a hint; but testers derped out so devs just gave the correct one.

That game is about clicking your enemies to death. And suddenly you have to think - on Normal difficulty? Anyway imagine brute-forcing yourself through six different levels. Only recently I have found out half of fake tombs are short and just farming material on Hell difficulty.

For casual who just want to finish Normal this is overkill. You want to have something to brag about then let me tell you the end location with Baal and/or Nihlahtak have 3 sets of dungeons and based around key elements you can guess where are stairs for the next level. 3 different routes compared to 7 different levels which all have transitions/loadings killing the momentum. They did the right call on Tal Rasha tombs IMO.
 

Generic-Giant-Spider

Guest
You're right, choosing the wrong tomb should have the doors close on you and the room filled with scorpions until you die.
 
Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
On my last playthrough I leveled a summoner necro

Here is my summon necro:

mxl%2Bsummons.jpg

Due to massive +FCR, can summon all that in about 10 secs.

What I like about MXL is that it's not enough to have good gear and be maxed level: you need to understand the systems and get gud. It's also not enough to just summon shit and watch it rip everything a new asshole, because it doesn't work like that. We need to invest time and experiment a lot, first.
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
13,304
Location
Eastern block
Has anyone tried Path of Diablo mod for D2 ?

I have, but it's not a mod. It's an online community with servers around the world. They stick to vanilla as much as possible while providing balance fixes, wider build viability and reworking forgotten useless uniques.

They have a decently purist approach, but also added some PoE things such as melee splash jewel, online Armory and an endgame collectible map system.
 
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Wirdschowerdn

Ph.D. in World Saving
Patron
Joined
Nov 30, 2003
Messages
34,574
Location
Clogging the Multiverse with a Crowbar
https://www.dsogaming.com/news/rumo...nch-beta-in-2020-diablo-2-remaster-cancelled/

Rumour: Diablo 4 will also have Paladin & Amazon at launch, beta in 2020, Diablo 2 Remaster cancelled
November 11, 2019 John Papadopoulos 24 Comments


Last week, Blizzard officially announced Diablo 4. Diablo 4 will have a similar style to Diablo 2, and will be darker and grittier than ever. And while Blizzard has announced only three classes, it appears that two more will be announced in the near future.

This information comes from a leak about Diablo 4 that surfaced on Reddit four whole months ago. That leak got a lot of things right, like the game’s art style, its classes, its combo system and more. As such, it’s really interesting looking back at it (after the game’s official reveal).

Back in July, the leaker claimed that the game will have five classes at launch. These classes are: Paladin, Barbarian, Sorcerer, Amazon and Druid. Therefore, it’s safe to assume that Blizzard will reveal the Paladin and Amazon classes at a later date. Furthermore, the leaker claimed that we’ll be getting the Necromancer after the game’s launch.

What’s also interesting is that Blizzard has more likely cancelled the Diablo 2 Remaster/Remake. Instead of creating a remaster/remake of Diablo 2, Blizzard will focus on making Diablo 4 as close to a Diablo 2 Remaster as possible. This most likely explains the similar art style these two games will be sharing.

As the leaker claimed:

  • Blizzard will be treating Diablo IV as a reboot of the franchise. Those who wanted a Diablo II Remake and a brand new Diablo game will be pleased. Basically, it’s a combination of both for the modern era. Best way to think of this is the latest God of War that was released in April for the PlayStation 4 in 2018.
  • Diablo II Remake/Remaster was planned, but they later realized that it would be much better to give the franchise a complete reset and put majority of the fans requests into 1 giant package.
Furthermore, the leaker revealed some additional and interesting new information. For instance, a server will be able to host 100 players and players will be able to trade items.

  • You can trade items in the game with other players such as gold, basic crafting materials (but not special crafting materials as they are soulbound) and any kind of loot ranging from grey quality and all the way up to rare yellows. Blizzard is not sure yet what to do with Legendary items/weapons yet and if they should be tradeable or not as far as the game’s economy goes due to competitive fairness and end-game systems that have a lot of functionalities with the legendary loot.
Last but not least, Diablo 4 will be a GaaS (game as a service) with regular patches and free content. A beta phase may begin in 2020 and the game may come out in 2021.

As said, take everything you read with a grain of salt. Still, it’s worth reminding you that the leaker was spot on about the initial details of Diablo 4. As such, we are confident about this rumour. Question now is when Blizzard will reveal these new classes.

Stay tuned for more!
 

Artyoan

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 16, 2017
Messages
650
Probably wouldn't be Amazon but something almost identical to it so as to give it a male equivalent. Centurion, Myrmidon, Hoplite, Gladiator, whatever it is they determine would fit in the Diablo universe. Same thing they did with the Paladin and Crusader.
 

Machocruz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
4,350
Location
Hyperborea
Their monster designers are so wack now. No clue what makes something look fearsome and iconic. Can't believe the things people get paid for.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
They've also been a part of pretty much every game in the genre for the last decade or so.

You can't boil something like 'damage' or 'deadliness' down to a single number anyways. Is a water jet cutter more or less deadly than a hammer? Bullet vs arrow? Etc.
Why is that supposed to be my problem? I am not an advocate of simplistic HP-DPS damage models. They are shit.
On those rare occasions when HPs *are* an appropriate solution to a problem (when they are low-detail way to embody statistics of getting hit), neither HP nor damage inflation makes no sense and DPS is a worthless measure.

Physics and anatomy are complicated, games abstract them for a reason.
That's never an excuse to abstract poorly.
Abstraction is basically a black box put over part of a system, in which you are allowed to implement something simpler than the system itself. If the math works out and whatever comes out of the box looks like it came out of the actual system itself (within the limits of applicability of given abstraction), the abstraction works out. In this sense yes, it very much does make sense to talk about deadliness of a fireball VS a cannon even if the damage dealing mechanism happens to be different.

Damage numbers and hp don't get bigger because you sword or character is more deadly, they go up because if there'd be no difference between anything you fought during the entire game.
That's a piss poor and brain fucking dead retarded excuse. How exactly is bloaty shit for bloaty shit's sake a good idea?
No other genre suffers the cancer of players masturbating over the numbers going up. In most other genres players don't even see the actual numbers.
Take Doom for instance - no one has ever complained that you don't replace your basic shotgun by one that does a few millions damage but the enemies are bloated accordingly.
But if you really want to you might LARP that both numbers are going up at whatever rate you find satisfactory (linear? quadratic? exponential? Ackermann function on Graham's numbers?) so the overall result is the same.

Cosmetics not mattering has always been a load of shit. Affecting gameplay or not, nobody wants to walk around looking like some sort of mish-mash clown in intentionally ugly looking armor so they feel more enticed to "stand out" by dropping cash. These aren't games you just drive-by, beat in a playthrough and go on. They're designed for replayability and to keep you coming back. Sinking hours into a game by the hundreds or thousands will eventually make most people break and shell out. It's scumbaggery done with a smile because, "it's only cosmetics." Being fine with shit doesn't make it smell any better.
I disagree. As long as the baseline art design remains palatable and cosmetics are either not an eyesore or are not forced upon other players, having microtransactions for cosmetic shit is acceptable.
I don't give a fuck if some weak willed, borderline retarded twat caves in and shells out all his daddy's money to have pimped out armor with bling.

What is not acceptable for me is always online shit, but that holds even in the absence of microtxns.

My main problem with Diablo 2 isn't even with its inflation, though that doesn't help. But what really kills it for me is how different the atmosphere is. Diablo 1 really nailed it with the NPCs, the village, the music, the enemy design, the spell design, the way magic worked with you having to look for those tomes. A lot of it was really simple and people might say the healer or the blacksmith are hardly the epitome of drama. But that is besides the point, they worked within the setting and worked really well. Diablo 2 never has the same impact with the player, at least it didn't to me. I specially dislike the class selection. The necromancer might have worked, although obviously not as a hero. The sorceress is less interesting as a character than the wizard from diablo 1, which at least looked foreign without looking displaced. The barbarian and the paladin too didn't look like they belonged in the same setting as Diablo 1, altoughI suppose it could have been made to work. The amazon however looked bad, really breaking the gothic atmosphere, but I have a special hatred for the druid because after making it such a big deal the secrets that were supposed buried in the church in Diablo 1, Diablo 2 comes along with a class based on a completely different kind of magic from the one we had seen in the previous game, and this just makes it feel cheap somehow.
You could make the classes work if you adjusted the lore and magic system to better fit with 1. The issue is setting going full retard and purely point based ability system, not classes themselves.
The Barbarian is more prone to looking cartoony because this is Blizzard and they can't help but put gigantic glow sticks in the hands of big guys.
That's the problem with blizztard, though.

I liked the old sites showing they wanted to make Diablo a turn-based RPG. Guess that didn't fly (which is fine now).
It's not that it didn't fly but accidentally did something that kept auto-advancing turns and were surprised how well this worked.

I don't really think there is much point to TB with single character, BTW. First person Diablo would have been a potentially better idea even though it would go further from the original.

Meanwhile, in D1, the entire thing is more landed, more "realistic". Fighting multiple enemies at once is dangerous, having to use the architecture in your favour is often a must to survive (even gets silly sometimes, like door camping). The entire atmosphere is more grounded and darker.
This. Even though you do end up fighting huge mobs in D1, gangbang is an ever present threat and you don't have the huge speed advantage in the form of sprint afterburner that allows you to disengage and GTFO if overwhelmed. At best you can get some minimal breather out of specific pathfinding quirks of various monsters.

Tome Magic was far more exploration-focused than the magical skill trees of the new games.
The main advantage is that it relies on what you find. In D2 you can just plan your entire build because you develop by spending points. It's all deterministic.

D1 was less deterministic in all aspects than its successors, dungeon layouts and enemy composition included.
D2 is a world tour of fighting horror enemies, mummies in the desert, cannibal-pygmies in the jungle, abominable snowmen etc, the original feel of D1 gets lost somewhere but that's to be expected with a much bigger game. There are some new cool enemies but they got really lazy in some cases too, giant spiders, insect swarms, beetles, vultures, furry cat-people(?), evil porcupines shooting thorns, that's as shitty as it gets.
True. The world tour also works remarkably poorly due to how theme park it is. They could have executed the concept (after all journey east was hinted at since the ending of D1) if they stuck closely to what would work with quasi-medieval European setting.
Act 2 could have worked if they as much as dropped all the derpy shit in the desert.
Act 3 could have worked if they didn't necessarily make it the last act or Mesoamerican jungleswamp (temperate european swampy area could be worth it for example, so would the setting's equivalent of something near the Euphrate or Sud).

Another difference is the quality of enemies, in D1 if you get surrounded or get into bad position where archers start hitting you, you can just die to some random low-level monsters. In D2 most normal monsters are just there to get killed, the threat comes mostly from elites and their modifiers, and you can always run away. D2 has much bigger areas so it wouldn't work without running, but it also changes the combat dynamics from D1 completely when you can just charge an archer or a mage and outmaneuver most monsters. The classes are different and more powerful than in D1 and fit the world of D2 but wouldn't necessarily fit the world of D1. D2 is still a great game but it's not really the same type of game as D1.
The thing is all those open spaces didn't add anything to the gameplay. A game like Diablo needs battlefield to be structured by all sorts of obstacles. Large featureless planes are boring.


As far as I agree with the point that D1 had an overall more consistent theme, and that the sequel abandons a lot of the tension by adopting globetrotting style of adventure, stylistically and atmosphere-wise D2 is still leagues above most things that followed. In my mind diluted awesomeness is still awesomeness. I could never quite get why the second act desert is what killed the mood for so many people.
Catgirls and demonic vultures.

But for me it really went downhill with act 3. Desert at least fit thematically into the journey east from quasi-medieval Europe.

Kurwast is where game just tells you to stop fucking around with your stupid character and just roll a Sorceress uninstall.exe.
Fixed it for you.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Durance of Hate was my favorite of them because it environmentally made Mephisto look like a huge badass. Piles of corpses everywhere, a blood moat, the portal to Hell right there, it was a good place to look at.
It also allowed you to forget that they fucking put setting's Vatican in fucking Mesoamerican jungle because reasons.

Seriously, don't pull this kind of shit if your setting runs on rough equivalence with medieval Europe and surroundings.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,008
As usual, DraQ complains that a game wasn't a 3 trillion dollar reality simulator in which the best way to play is to become a cobbler because adventuring in real life would be fucking suicide.
 

Dr Skeleton

Arcane
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
814
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
There are some new cool enemies but they got really lazy in some cases too, giant spiders, insect swarms, beetles, vultures, furry cat-people(?), evil porcupines shooting thorns, that's as shitty as it gets.

HEY MAN FUCK YOU MAN.
Skeletons > spiders.

Seriously though, there's nothing wrong with cliche fantasy monsters in appropriate settings, but Diablo is not that setting. They're not even demonic spiders, they're just some random fucking spiders minding their own business in the dungeon while the whole Diablo thing is going on. And they skipped a lot of cool monsters from D1. You could (and I think some mods did) import D1 monsters to D2 and they would fit alright in many places, can you imagine if D1 had yetis and porcupines in the cathedral? :lol:

The thing is all those open spaces didn't add anything to the gameplay. A game like Diablo needs battlefield to be structured by all sorts of obstacles. Large featureless planes are boring.
They didn't add anything, yeah, plus most open areas are rectangles with 1-2 tunnels that go the neighboring area. That's alright for dungeons but for open spaces not so much, especially when dungeons have things like corridors and doors. I remember some gaming magazine at the time being very excited that D2 was going to have fighting in outdoor areas, and that NPCs would have schedules (and they do, they walk 5 steppes back and forth randomly).
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
The main advantage is that it relies on what you find. In D2 you can just plan your entire build because you develop by spending points. It's all deterministic
Itemization makes up for this unless you Multiplayer.
There trade moves everyone too close to BIS meta.
Generally I think combination of deterministic and rogue-like skills would have worked.

Open areas I like the idea, but they should be more special and have more detail. Going out of Jail into semi-big Cathedral building with painted walls and stained glass is good. But then it's 3 levels of same grey walls again.
Going into desert is ok, but not if there are 3 levels of open desert to cross.
 
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