Vapourware RPGs that can legitimately be called masterpieces

[Dodo1610]

Gothic 2 + Night of the Raven addon

 

[Sigourn]

I have played four RPG masterpieces:

• Fallout
• Gothic
  
• Deus Ex
• Dark Souls

What's more impressive to me is that Deus Ex lived up to the hype.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Warband as in Mount&Blade: Warband?

Because if it is, then the list is invalid.

 

[Master]

Knights of the Old Republic 2

The RPG is not even complete. A masterpiece is a complete work that invokes a degree of awe. It is more arguable that KotOR 2 is worthless.

Kotor 2 does inspire a kind of "awe", more than Kotor 1, which was complete. Doesn't really matter if not everything is tied up perfectly.
I would say
SS2, Gothic 1 and FO1 are top 3 Rpgs

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Ultima Underworld

It's not my favorite game, but after thinking a bit and having to choose something I consider to be a "masterpiece", that's probably what I'd go with.

 

[King Crispy]

None. Zero.

There are no RPG "masterpieces". There are only flawed gems.

Up there are Fallout and ToEE. Wizardry 8. PS:T. But all of these are deeply imperfect. Nowhere near being masterpieces by any stretch of the term's definition.

I suspect one of the things that intrigues me most about the RPG genre is that the perfect RPG has yet to be made. More to the point, I doubt it ever will. And that keeps me constantly searching.

Always searching...

 

[Gregz]

There are not many masterpieces. Off-hand, and in no particular order:

- Fallout (PC)
- Deus Ex (PC)
- Jagged Alliance 2 (PC)
- Warband (PC)
- Diablo (PC)
- Darklands (PC)
- Wasteland (C=64)
- Captive (Amiga)
- Hired Guns (Amiga)
- Dungeon Master (Atari ST)

I can call any of these masterpieces with a straight face. There are others, of course, but that's what I can think of, off-hand.

So what, to your mind, are examples of genre masterpieces?

Based on your criteria, I agree that's a good list. I can see why you omitted Bloodlines, the combat, but Darklands has combat problems also.

Why did you omit Knights of the Chalice and Diablo II?

 

[Gregz]

Disappointed that no one's mentioned System Shock 2 yet.

I would, but the last level felt rushed.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Lilura you know I love you and everything, but your list is pretty horrible.

Diablo a masterpiece? Of what, dumbing down deep roguelike Nethack-type gameplay into a mindless clickfest? They literally copied Nethack (dungeon with many floors getting harder as you descend, some objective, loot, etc) but replaced all the deep interesting interactions and learning with a clickfest.

The real masterpieces:

Ultima Underworld - most intelligent RPG type game ever made
Ultima VII: The Black Gate - not so much fun to play now, but back in 1992 what it attempted to do was quite amazing
Fallout
PS:T
Gothic/Gothic 2
Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Disco Elysium
Operation Flashpoint
Dark Forces 2: Jedi Knight
Europa Universalis 2
Dark Souls

 

[LudensCogitet]

A lot of people putting Disco Elysium on these lists but I reckon it's waaay too soon to declare that one a masterpiece.
I always have nothing but great things to say about a good game right after I'm finished playing it.

 

[Nines_Anarch]

Only masterpiece I've played is called

Suikoden 2

 

[Chippy]

Dunno. I've spent all day getting sawdust blasted in my eyes, so not thinking clearly in terms of what "masterpiece" means. There isn't a game that's that great, but there is a game that is the best at what it does.

I'm playing bloodlines again and I'd call that a masterpiece of immersion into the world it created.

And I'd say BG1 was a masterpiece in that it's the primary RPG that made me feel like I was roleplaying an alter ego in another setting. People don't often talk about what that entails, and I think it flew over the heads of the devolpers (may be purposefully) as well. It also inspired me to play other RPG and hope / take them seriously that they might continue to evolve.

Spoiler

yes, really

I suppose by my logic, people who liked Skyrim would think it's a masterpiece because they got +250 jerks out of it with nude mods - but I stand by my statements.

 

[undecaf]

There are no RPG "masterpieces". There are only flawed gems.

Up there are Fallout and ToEE. Wizardry 8. PS:T. But all of these are deeply imperfect. Nowhere near being masterpieces by any stretch of the term's definition.

I suspect one of the things that intrigues me most about the RPG genre is that the perfect RPG has yet to be made. More to the point, I doubt it ever will. And that keeps me constantly searching.

Always searching...

I agree, in general terms. But I would also argue that being a masterpiece and being "perfect" or flawless aren't synonymous. The way I see it, being a masterpiece doesn't concern flaws, a masterpiece does what it is supposed to in a spectacular way inspite of its inevitable flaws (because nothing is perfect).

I can't even imagine what a "perfect" RPG would look or play like. If it was a "perfect" emulation of PnP, I'd guess that - in a computer environment - it'd be boring and possibly even confusing. CRPG's kinda need those certain limitations and boundaries they have - not as much as they are limited in the market now, no, not even close to, though - because the presentation can not match imagination even if someone somewhere at some point found some "divine piece of code" that could provide the PnP level of situational and circumstantial reactivity.

Who knows, though...

 

[Serus]

The titles that i may consider masterpieces or at least borderline masterpieces:
Fallout 1
Fallout 2 (!!!)
Jagged Alliance 2
Betrayal at Krondor
Wizardry 7
Knights of the Chalice (?)

 

[Falksi]

Way I see it, a Masterpiece is a game that simply everyone must play, and which most people would come back having loved. So I'd say...........

Deus Ex
Baldurs Gate 2
X-Com (EDIT: Not an RPG, but seen it already mentioned, so chucked it in)
Morrowind
Phantasy Star 4
Your favourite Final Fantasy Game
Your favourite Dark Souls game (although they aren't RPG's, they're fucking action games, but whatever)
Your favourite Goldbox game


Flawed Masterpieces, which are very similar but appeal to less people because of the angle they come from are IMO...........

Life Is Strange
Dragon Age:Origins
Witcher 1 & 2
Mass Effect 1
Summoner 2

 

[Curratum]

Way I see it, a Masterpiece is a game that simply everyone must play, and which most people would come back having loved. So I'd say...........
Phantasy Star 4

Only Sega RPG I ever played but damn, I was not ready for that cool exposition and writing in an ancient console game. Played is much after its time, on an emulator in 2002 or whatever and loved it to bits. The TAKE OFF, LANDEEL theme I still remember and can hum.

 

[Gregz]

X-Com isn't an RPG

 

[Falksi]

Way I see it, a Masterpiece is a game that simply everyone must play, and which most people would come back having loved. So I'd say...........
Phantasy Star 4

Only Sega RPG I ever played but damn, I was not ready for that cool exposition and writing in an ancient console game. Played is much after its time, on an emulator in 2002 or whatever and loved it to bits. The TAKE OFF, LANDEEL theme I still remember and can hum.

Well said chap.

I replayed it around 4 years ago again, and it's still hardly aged. One of the best paced games out there.

Absolute masterpiece

 

[Junmarko]

Elex 2: Night of the Parrot

 

[Darth Canoli]

Wizardry 8
M&M III : Isles of Terra
Dark sun : Shattered Lands
ToEE
KotC
Fallout 1 & 2
PST
Arx Fatalis

Games with RPG elements i consider masterpieces
- HoMM 1, 2 & 3
- UFO

And the list is way longer if you only rate them as classics (Wizardry 6 and 7, M&M 6 and 7, KotOR 1 & 2, etc.)

 

[overly excitable young man]

Only Fallout is masterpiece. Everything else isn't Fallout and therefore no masterpiece.

 

[Darkzone]

Masterpiece: A work of outstanding skill, mastery or workmanship.

Hey according to this definition none off this games on your list are masterpieces.
Which outstanding skill and mastery of what? What workmanship? You provide no concrete arguments for any classification and further in to this thread you discard things based on no clear statement of this classification.
One the same basis you can discard anything that you don't like and declare anything that you like as a masterpiece.

Note how it says "a work". In other words, it isn't enough for an RPG to have great this or great that, but fail elsewhere. When taken as a whole, the RPG must equate to a masterpiece. Thus, Troika games are out despite my undying love for them.

There are not many masterpieces. Off-hand, and in no particular order:

- Fallout (PC)
- Deus Ex (PC)
- Jagged Alliance 2 (PC)
- Warband (PC)
- Diablo (PC)
- Darklands (PC)
- Wasteland (C=64)
- Captive (Amiga)
- Hired Guns (Amiga)
- Dungeon Master (Atari ST)

I'm not interested which games you liked in your youth, when everything was fine and dandy (1986-1999).
Alone the not inclusion of Ultima 4 - 7 invalidates your opinion.

 

[Surf Solar]

Flawed Masterpieces[...]

Life Is Strange

 

[Lady_Error]

In other words, it isn't enough for an RPG to have great this or great that, but fail elsewhere. When taken as a whole, the RPG must equate to a masterpiece.

- Darklands (PC)

Did you notice the atrocious combat?