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Interview The Outer Worlds is a commercial success, patches and sequel on the way

mindfields

Learned
Joined
May 26, 2017
Messages
156
It's kinda sad seeing the decline. I remember lurking the dex during the WL2 and PoE Kickstarters and I couldn't help myself be caught up with the positivism and hope for the future of CPRGs, it seemed that the genre had a silent, sleeping fanbase that had reawakened and we were assured of incline in the future. As it turned out, "Hardcore CRPG" was just another video game fad, and once the normies had got their dose and realized they didn't actually like these games, they stopped buying them. And here we are, just like in 2008 with Fallout 3 the genre has come back to FPS games with "RPG" elements tacked on.

:dead:
 

Fenix

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
6,458
Location
Russia atchoum!
There was nothing hardcore in PoE, and nothing of what made BG cult classic game.
The main goal of PoE is - as I see it - to promote SJWism and feminist fascism.
The main goal of BG series - make fun game with fun adventures.
 

toro

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
14,031
It's kinda sad seeing the decline. I remember lurking the dex during the WL2 and PoE Kickstarters and I couldn't help myself be caught up with the positivism and hope for the future of CPRGs, it seemed that the genre had a silent, sleeping fanbase that had reawakened and we were assured of incline in the future. As it turned out, "Hardcore CRPG" was just another video game fad, and once the normies had got their dose and realized they didn't actually like these games, they stopped buying them. And here we are, just like in 2008 with Fallout 3 the genre has come back to FPS games with "RPG" elements tacked on.

:dead:

Torment: Tides of Numerera $4,188,927 - stinker
Pillars of Eternity $3,986,929 - stinker
Wasteland 2 $2,933,252 - mediocre
Divinity: Original Sin 2 $2,032,434 - actually good and a commercial success
Shadowrun Returns $1,836,447 - actually good and a commercial success
Dreamfall Chapters: The Longest Journey $1,538,425 - stinker
The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep $1,519,680 - absolute stinker

Pathfinder: Kingmaker
$909,057 - brilliant
Underworld Ascendant $860,356 - absolute stinker
The Banner Saga $723,886 - mediocre

Normies pledged for these games, they got shit and now they have precautions about what the developers are promising. As you said, it's definitely their fault. /s
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2016
Messages
2
So many boomers in this thread. Imagine thinking a game can't be fun unless there's 600-page rule books and every time you encounter a sewer rat you have to stop everything and clunkily roll 40 different dice while socially awkwardly describing how you're swinging your dorky-ass sword for 45 minutes to some lame DM with a garbage beard.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
It's kinda sad seeing the decline. I remember lurking the dex during the WL2 and PoE Kickstarters and I couldn't help myself be caught up with the positivism and hope for the future of CPRGs, it seemed that the genre had a silent, sleeping fanbase that had reawakened and we were assured of incline in the future. As it turned out, "Hardcore CRPG" was just another video game fad, and once the normies had got their dose and realized they didn't actually like these games, they stopped buying them. And here we are, just like in 2008 with Fallout 3 the genre has come back to FPS games with "RPG" elements tacked on.

:dead:

Er... are you saying that WL2 and PoE were "hardcore" RPGs?

Man, it's crazy how perspective can change so wildly, even among people in the same niche. To me those games are the definition of mainstream.

Anyway, about your point about action-RPGs being more popular: this has always been like that... remember when Diablo 1 came out and "Revolutionized" the genre? Yeah. ARPGs dominating is nothing new. Mind you, not saying ARPGs are bad or anything (I enjoy quite a few of them); just stating a fact, that "normies" prefer games that are easier to play and have better instant-gratification mechanics. Nothing that complicated about it, tbh.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Sure, but then I wouldn't really consider Skyrim or Witcher 3 to be "real" RPGs to begin with so I would never be talking about them in a discussion about what is or isn't a hard-core RPG.
 
Last edited:

mindfields

Learned
Joined
May 26, 2017
Messages
156
It's kinda sad seeing the decline. I remember lurking the dex during the WL2 and PoE Kickstarters and I couldn't help myself be caught up with the positivism and hope for the future of CPRGs, it seemed that the genre had a silent, sleeping fanbase that had reawakened and we were assured of incline in the future. As it turned out, "Hardcore CRPG" was just another video game fad, and once the normies had got their dose and realized they didn't actually like these games, they stopped buying them. And here we are, just like in 2008 with Fallout 3 the genre has come back to FPS games with "RPG" elements tacked on.

:dead:

Torment: Tides of Numerera $4,188,927 - stinker
Pillars of Eternity $3,986,929 - stinker
Wasteland 2 $2,933,252 - mediocre
Divinity: Original Sin 2 $2,032,434 - actually good and a commercial success
Shadowrun Returns $1,836,447 - actually good and a commercial success
Dreamfall Chapters: The Longest Journey $1,538,425 - stinker
The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep $1,519,680 - absolute stinker

Pathfinder: Kingmaker
$909,057 - brilliant
Underworld Ascendant $860,356 - absolute stinker
The Banner Saga $723,886 - mediocre

Normies pledged for these games, they got shit and now they have precautions about what the developers are promising. As you said, it's definitely their fault. /s
Except WL2 and PoE 1/2 were great CRPGs, not perfect but very fun.
 

mindfields

Learned
Joined
May 26, 2017
Messages
156
You cannot honestly think that a party-based RPG with 14 classes, 7 attributes, hundreds of spells, abilities and feats along with multi-classing (heaps of possible builds), which requires you to micromanage up to 5/6 characters can be considered "mainstream", I don't think you even understand what mainstream means, the average zoomer would take one look at PoE's character creation screen and never play the game again.

You gotta laugh at the ridiculous purity spiralling on the codex over what is a hardcore CRPG, you keep calling everything shit and you'll have nothing left to play.
 

Fenix

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
6,458
Location
Russia atchoum!
Except WL2 and PoE 1/2 were great CRPGs, not perfect but very fun.

Uh, they weren't.
To squeeze some fun from W2 I was need to play it as 2 man team, when one is melee and fight everything, and the other is pacifist that hide in every fight.
That's far from very fun is you need to do things like that.
PoE is like a chewed toilet paper.

You cannot honestly think that a party-based RPG with 14 classes, 7 attributes, hundreds of spells, abilities and feats along with multi-classing (heaps of possible builds), which requires you to micromanage up to 5/6 characters can be considered "mainstream"

There is a bit different thing.
Ifelogical content in game appealed to young players, like before 20 - all this fem-bullshit in setting, item descriptions and such.
And young audience is mainstream audience an mass.
Otherwise, problem with game in execution - what you describe were simply bad, RTwP combat being worse then in BG 20 which is 20 years old game, roleplay system is a joke where you get upon levelups things as uninspiring as +5 piercing damage. Loredumps, unsympathetic characters...
Fun for those who never played BG mostly, I think.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
You cannot honestly think that a party-based RPG with 14 classes, 7 attributes, hundreds of spells, abilities and feats along with multi-classing (heaps of possible builds), which requires you to micromanage up to 5/6 characters can be considered "mainstream", I don't think you even understand what mainstream means, the average zoomer would take one look at PoE's character creation screen and never play the game again.

You gotta laugh at the ridiculous purity spiralling on the codex over what is a hardcore CRPG, you keep calling everything shit and you'll have nothing left to play.

To me "hard core RPG" is something like Grimoire, or Elminage: Gothic, or Knights of the Chalice, which have almost zero appeal to a mainstream audience and are meant to appeal specifically to hard-core RPG players.

Games like PoE have a much broader appeal than that, meant for a broader audience.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Dude, did you buy all that nonce "long hairs are difficult to model, out artists just not crafty enough"?
Weird how devs just didn't have this issue until recently.
Must have been the advances in hardware and software that actually made their jobs more difficult!
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
To me "hard core RPG" is something like Grimoire, or Elminage: Gothic, or Knights of the Chalice, which have almost zero appeal to a mainstream audience and are meant to appeal specifically to hard-core RPG players.

Games like PoE have a much broader appeal than that, meant for a broader audience.

An audience of hundreds of thousands is a bigger niche than something with appeal to mere tens of thousands, but it's a niche nonetheless. Big publishers have been counting in the millions since the 00s.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
Patron
Joined
Jun 15, 2017
Messages
3,152
Location
Jamrock District
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
To me "hard core RPG" is something like Grimoire, or Elminage: Gothic, or Knights of the Chalice, which have almost zero appeal to a mainstream audience and are meant to appeal specifically to hard-core RPG players.

Games like PoE have a much broader appeal than that, meant for a broader audience.

An audience of hundreds of thousands is a bigger niche than something with appeal to mere tens of thousands, but it's a niche nonetheless. Big publishers have been counting in the millions since the 00s.

Not hardcore, not softcore. Medium core?
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
To me "hard core RPG" is something like Grimoire, or Elminage: Gothic, or Knights of the Chalice, which have almost zero appeal to a mainstream audience and are meant to appeal specifically to hard-core RPG players.

Games like PoE have a much broader appeal than that, meant for a broader audience.

An audience of hundreds of thousands is a bigger niche than something with appeal to mere tens of thousands, but it's a niche nonetheless. Big publishers have been counting in the millions since the 00s.

Not hardcore, not softcore. Medium core?
Mediocore.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
Alright, can't wait for the sequel of a game where the thing, most people remember, is an autistic asexual engineer female having a relationship with some random lesbian you find on a random ship stop and you having to arrange their relationship otherwise you are a bigot, boy, I'm jumping with joy, you guise don't know it. I remember on the past, being annoyed with the chosen one hero stories and imagining how the future of the storytelling in gaming could be. Now, being a hero is delivering cakes on gay weddings... what a joy.
 

Deleted Member 22431

Guest
It's kinda sad seeing the decline. I remember lurking the dex during the WL2 and PoE Kickstarters and I couldn't help myself be caught up with the positivism and hope for the future of CPRGs,
I think I started reading the Codex because of these Kickstarter projects! LOL Dear codexer, if you despise my guts, know this: I'm only here because of W2 and PoE! XD
 

Deleted Member 22431

Guest
You gotta laugh at the ridiculous purity spiralling on the codex over what is a hardcore CRPG, you keep calling everything shit and you'll have nothing left to play.
They are frauds. Most of them played and replayed TOW. It's only a facade of puritanism.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
5,875
You gotta laugh at the ridiculous purity spiralling on the codex over what is a hardcore CRPG, you keep calling everything shit and you'll have nothing left to play.
They are frauds. Most of them played and replayed TOW. It's only a facade of puritanism.

You've been here since 2016 and this surprises you?
 

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