Diablo IV

[Cryomancer]

You can make all kinds of aRPG games but they are not Diablo likes. Diablo likes are made around murdering lots of monsters and getting lots of random loot.

Not true. Diablo 3 is a gauntlet like barbie dressing game. But Diablo 1 and 2 are different.



On pre alfa version of D2, instead of dropping random items, monsters drop organs and you use it to craft items. Unfortunately was considered "too creepy"(in a game with skills like corpse explosion) and was replaced by an worst version of looting, aka monsters drop weapons and armor that they are not wearing. Something that makes no sense. I an not saying that is bad, a lot of people love this "mechanism", but if you look to more traditional RPG's, on VtMB, if you kill someone using an shotgun, he will drop the shotgun, not an baton or an revolver. The same happens on Fallout New Vegas, no deathclaw or similar high level non humanoid enemy would ever drop an anti materiel rifle or explosive .50 ammo. And in medieval RPG's too, On Morrowind is possible to get the best medium armor in the game easily at lv 1 with spellcrafting and a little strategy. On non isometric aRPG's like Dark Souls, certain weapons are obtained by "challenges" like cutting an boss tail. Diablo would be extremely different if wasen't by "too creepy".

I also can beat Diablo 1 and 2 naked without any problem.

 

[Shadenuat]

monsters drop organs and you use it to craft items. Unfortunately was considered "too creepy"

Witcher spilled his beer and laughed.

 

[ArchAngel]

You can make all kinds of aRPG games but they are not Diablo likes. Diablo likes are made around murdering lots of monsters and getting lots of random loot.

Not true. Diablo 3 is a gauntlet like barbie dressing game. But Diablo 1 and 2 are different.



On pre alfa version of D2, instead of dropping random items, monsters drop organs and you use it to craft items. Unfortunately was considered "too creepy"(in a game with skills like corpse explosion) and was replaced by an worst version of looting, aka monsters drop weapons and armor that they are not wearing. Something that makes no sense. I an not saying that is bad, a lot of people love this "mechanism", but if you look to more traditional RPG's, on VtMB, if you kill someone using an shotgun, he will drop the shotgun, not an baton or an revolver. The same happens on Fallout New Vegas, no deathclaw or similar high level non humanoid enemy would ever drop an anti materiel rifle or explosive .50 ammo. And in medieval RPG's too, On Morrowind is possible to get the best medium armor in the game easily at lv 1 with spellcrafting and a little strategy. On non isometric aRPG's like Dark Souls, certain weapons are obtained by "challenges" like cutting an boss tail. Diablo would be extremely different if wasen't by "too creepy".

I also can beat Diablo 1 and 2 naked without any problem.

But we didn't get that game. And being able to finish a game in certain way does not make it core gameplay. Core gameplay and one enjoyed by 99% of its players is killing and looting.

 

[Covenant]

On pre alfa version of D2, instead of dropping random items, monsters drop organs and you use it to craft items. Unfortunately was considered "too creepy"(in a game with skills like corpse explosion) and was replaced by an worst version of looting, aka monsters drop weapons and armor that they are not wearing. Something that makes no sense.

It makes more sense that a memorable character in the first game was a blacksmith, yet monster-goo produces weapons that are more effective than any steel? I don't remember Griswold the Taxidermist.

Besides, it's tedious when monsters drop 'realistic' equipment. The gameworld quickly fills up with a billion iterations of common crappy armour and weapons that are of no use or interest. I know some people are into their immersion/realism and love that if you go in some random peasant's bathroom you can find his toilet paper, so I guess they're the audience for shit like that, but it does nothing for me.

Overall, I feel like 'Less is more' is a good maxim where loot is concerned. ARPGs where you constantly have to empty out your pack because you've got 20 rares that are all about 5% worse than the rare you're already using (though you have to really eyeball them to work that out) get pretty fatiguing once you start approaching the higher levels. Grim Dawn had that issue.

but if you look to more traditional RPG's, on VtMB, if you kill someone using an shotgun, he will drop the shotgun, not an baton or an revolver. The same happens on Fallout New Vegas, no deathclaw or similar high level non humanoid enemy would ever drop an anti materiel rifle or explosive .50 ammo.

Let's go even more traditional - if it was good enough for Wizardry and Rogue, it's good enough for Diablo.

 

[Desiderius]

ARPGs where you constantly have to empty out your pack because you've got 20 rares that are all about 5% worse than the rare you're already using (though you have to really eyeball them to work that out) get pretty fatiguing once you start approaching the higher levels. Grim Dawn had that issue.

Same thing killed both of my D:OS2 playthroughs. Original LotRO had rare drops that could then be crafted (along with precious metals) into best gear. Don’t know why you couldn’t go that way.

 

[typical user]

Funny thing is in Diablo 2 swarms of mosquitos have increased chance of dropping runes and gems because armor and heavy weapons are big and the developers deemed it ridiculous.

Well here I go farming Act 2 again.

 

[Cryomancer]

But we didn't get that game. And being able to finish a game in certain way does not make it core gameplay. Core gameplay and one enjoyed by 99% of its players is killing and looting.

I enjoyed much more Diablo 1 because gear is not that OP. The best unique longbow is not exponentially better than the normal longbow

h, yet monster-goo produces weapons that are more effective than any steel? I don't remember Griswold the Taxidermist.

I believe that would be nice to 'fuse" a salamander fire demon scales with your plate mail in order to produce a armor more effective vs fire and slashes. Anyway, if a pit fiend drop a "hell ore" who combined with a hell forge can produce a hellfire greataxe, it can be interesting too.

Funny thing is in Diablo 2 swarms of mosquitos have increased chance of dropping runes and gems because armor and heavy weapons are big and the developers deemed it ridiculous.

Diablo 2 logic -
Can create skeleton from mosquito corpses
Can't create skeleton from bone walls

Anyway, IMO a in between "only drops what he is wearing and fully random loot" is increased chance to drop, eg, Oblivion Knights have increased chance of dropping wands/staves, pit fiends, two handed weapons, etc. Wen i mean morel ikely, is not 5000x more likely. Is jus like 2~3 times more likely.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Diablo 2 logic -
Can create skeleton from mosquito corpses

If they fixed this, you'd then bitch that you can get human skeletons from quadrepeds. And if they fixed that, you'd start bitching about how the skeletons from the fallen aren't shorter than others. And then you'd bitch theirs stats should all be different, or the female skeletons need wider hips.

Fuck off and leave game design to people who understand the concept of opportunity costs.

 

[Cryomancer]

Fuck off and leave game design to people who understand the concept of opportunity costs.

I was just joking. For a more "consistent" representation of the mob's corpse, there are the revive skill.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Were you also joking about going through a bestiary of over 100 monsters and assigning each of them slightly different loot tables to match their appearance without regard for how it would impact balance? Because that was even more retarded.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Isn't killing the Countess the best way to farm for runes or am I outdated?

 

[Shadenuat]

It is, although she only drops up to a particular level depending on the difficulty. Getting runes other than her basic set is very rare.

 

[Cryomancer]

Were you also joking about going through a bestiary of over 100 monsters and assigning each of them slightly different loot tables to match their appearance without regard for how it would impact balance? Because that was even more retarded.

No, all casters receive +X percent of dropping magical items. All undead +X of necromantic items. All demons, from fire skills, all melee fighters for melee weapons.

 

[Cryomancer]

Guys, any mod who adds necromancer to Diablo 1 but doesn't give cooldowns to spells and make your minions actually useful? I mean, Belzebub was interesting. But the late stages, my skeletons was useless. They was with less than half of the damage, hit points, armor class and numbers of enemies. The end game becomes another sorcerer run thanks to that(actually i prefer the regular . And the hell 2, 5 seconds cooldown on basic spells? Sorry, i respect the hard work of the modder, but i rather play hellfire... At least on hellfire, guardian, nova, etc has no CD...

I din't finished Belzebub mod because i don't know how to face diablo.

Belzebub screens

 

[Beastro]

And about the crime rate? Does Putin place a bullet on the head of criminals as it should be done or Russia is fillied with weak ass "Mah human rights", here on Brazil the goverment protects criminals... well... actually the goverment is made by criminals so they are only protecting their friends, even the judges on the supreme court are criminals.

from what I've heard Russia prefers random dates of execution where the person is abruptly taken out of their cell to a sound proof one and given a bullet behind an ear.

 

[S.torch]

a bestiary of over 100 monsters and assigning each of them slightly different loot tables to match their appearance

Yes, many other games have coherent loot, is not hard for Diablo to have something like that. Yet you talk like it was the performance of a miracle, curious.

 

[Damned Registrations]

a bestiary of over 100 monsters and assigning each of them slightly different loot tables to match their appearance

Yes, many other games have coherent loot, is not hard for Diablo to have something like that. Yet you talk like it was the performance of a miracle, curious.

I talk as though I don't want to play a game where assassins are fucked over because enemies drop weapons that they wield but no enemies wield claws or naginatas. Or some set piece is incredibly rare because none of the high level unique monsters wield a matching type. Shit is hard enough to balance without making concessions to retards that are butthurt the game isn't a fucking simulation. Find me a game with perfect gameplay before whining for resources to be redirected towards trivial fluff elements like whether or not fallen shamans drop staves more often.

 

[Cryomancer]

I talk as though I don't want to play a game where assassins are fucked over because enemies drop weapons that they wield but no enemies wield claws or naginatas.

Implement enemies who use those weapons. A skeleton can technically use any weapon. A skeleton knight any armor... I an not saying that is ideal for a game like diablo. I only brought this because some people are reducing diablo as a just slot machine, when pre alfa d2 had a interesting idea involving organs and a naked run on D1/2 is a amazing experiences.

 

[Shadenuat]

If anything it would make farming items you need much easier and varied instead of just rushing a single area 100 times.

 

[ArchAngel]

If anything it would make farming items you need much easier and varied instead of just rushing a single area 100 times.

And this is why you play Path of Diablo where they added maps and uber dungeons and uber bosses.

 

[Grunker]

D2 already has lots of CONGRATULATIONS HERO.

It did. It also had story-telling elements that were way beyond anything D1 had. I didn't expect to, but I really like both the brevity in the way the story was told and the actual story of Marius.

I think my ideal Diablo story would have the themes, style and horror atmosphere of D1 but some of D2's storytelling tools.

Not that story is particularly important in these games, but I enjoyed D1+D2 atmosphere and story more than I thought I would

 

[Grunker]

If anything it would make farming items you need much easier and varied instead of just rushing a single area 100 times.

And this is why you play Path of Diablo where they added maps and uber dungeons and uber bosses.

Have you played the newer versions of Median XL? Looks surprisingly interesting

 

[Shadenuat]

Not that story is particularly important in these games, but I enjoyed D1+D2 atmosphere and story more than I thought I would

If it wasn't important people wouldn't be bothered with D3 so much, and Blizz wouldn't hire Witcher designer to try and bring back in D4 what was lost in D3.

 

[ArchAngel]

If anything it would make farming items you need much easier and varied instead of just rushing a single area 100 times.

And this is why you play Path of Diablo where they added maps and uber dungeons and uber bosses.

Have you played the newer versions of Median XL? Looks surprisingly interesting

Nah, Median changes too much. It is a different game. Also I don't know if Median has nice things like a trading site, item filters, global chat that is always accessible, separate servers from battlenet all around the world and lots of other cool features like patches with skill changes for every new league so meta changes each league. Path of Diablo is not just a mod, it is a live game. Unfortunately for some it is also an online only mod as many of its features don't work in singleplayer mode (like extra inventory space only being for charms; in singleplayer you can use whole inventory for charms if you want to).

 

[S.torch]

I talk as though I don't want to play a game where assassins are fucked over because enemies drop weapons that they wield but no enemies wield claws or naginatas. Or some set piece is incredibly rare because none of the high level unique monsters wield a matching type. Shit is hard enough to balance without making concessions to retards that are butthurt the game isn't a fucking simulation. Find me a game with perfect gameplay before whining for resources to be redirected towards trivial fluff elements like whether or not fallen shamans drop staves more often.

You understand that none of what you're saying is speacially hard to implement and will not make the game harder to balance? People already gave you some examples of games that do it right, like Dark Souls but even Bethesda games have coherent loot. Also, killing 40 monster to find the same +2 defense shield again and again is not fun. In fact, it looks like a MMORPG way of playing, which is what Diablo is transforming.

and Blizz wouldn't hire Witcher designer to try and bring back in D4 what was lost in D3.

Sadly they hardly bring anything. In a game that will be always online and always multiplayer, you will hardly know some atmosphere.