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What elements are desirable in the final showdown of an RPG?

Vatnik
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
6,704
Location
Mouse Utopia
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
I recently finished Avernum 1 for the first time, and I honestly think the final fight, assassinating Emperor Hawthorne in the Spire, was the best in any RPG I've played. There were two things special about it: after spending the whole game in the deep caverns, cast down as a criminal in the eyes of Hawthorne's Empire, you now ascend to the exact opposite location, a Spire towering above the surface. And the other thing that was cool was the understanding that this assassination was only the beginning of something, because the Empire would surely react with a devastating punitive invasion of the caverns.

So the important parts of the final fight or area in an RPG that I can think of right now, are:
1)Your motive to go there and fight the antagonist. This can be personal, or the antagonist is an enemy for the whole setting. Quite a few RPGs go with both, even Planescape asserts that TTO is slowly killing the planes.
2)The location's thematic aspect, such as Hawthorne's Spire.
3)The difficulty of getting there. Planescape probably tops the list for this one.
4)Special allies or artefacts that can be brought to bear, such as confronting the Master in Fallout with the research demonstrating mutant sterility.
5) Interesting things happen as a result of both success or failure. I don't think ''Normality is restored'' is a great outcome as far as an interesting ending is concerned.

What did I miss?
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
Patron
Joined
Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,759
What did I miss?
The final dungeon itself should be particularly notable, relative to the other dungeons or wilderness areas that you have traversed to reach the culmination of the game, e.g. the Mantellan Crux of Daggerfall or the Citadel of Doom of Faery Tale Adventure. This is not merely related to a thematic aspect,; the entire presentation and substance of the final dungeon should create a memorable experience for the player.

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Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
I expect that everyone is going to disagree with me on this one, but here it goes. I like endings that are:

a) Relatively short. By the time I reach the ending, I am already thinking about my build for the next playthrough. I don't want to spend too much time at the ending. The ending is definitely not a good time for the developer to test my build. Challenge me all you want before the ending, but I made it this far, this is reward time. Generally, I like the ending to be the opposite of what Underrail did with the Deep Caverns.
b) Consequence heavy. New Vegas-like: all the people/factions I helped will be there to help me out. People I hurt may try to get in my way.
C) To the point. For story heavy games, I expect to see the various themes converge at the end. PST-like.
 

Psquit

Arcane
Joined
Sep 18, 2012
Messages
1,921
Location
Ushuaia
I'm a simple man. A final showdown must have:

1) Multi-phase boss battle with epic orchestral music that changes its tone which each phase. (fuck QTE's final bosses and fuck underwhelming boss battles).
2) A confrontation of ideologies (both the main character and the antagonist). If you want to have the traditional "Ancient evil" as the antagonist at least make it like those JRPG'S (some bullshit eldritch horror god from another dimension), don't make it a vanilla fucking dragon or some demon... a boring antagonist can be forgiven if he's cool.
3) A good reason for the protagonist to go search the antagonist, like some sort of urgency.
4) Must be emotionally engaging, as the legacy of kain games where you actually give a fuck about the fate of the characters.
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
7,523
The final boss needs to be singular. As much as I love Dungeon Rats, they kind of got this backward. You fight the Emperor, and then you head up to the surface and fight nameless legionaries.
 

Quillon

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
5,214
I hate seeing loot around in ending levels, disable all the loot in ending levels that I'll not be able to use ever, thanks.
 

Zanzoken

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2014
Messages
3,559
The ability to betray your companions at the last minute and join the final boss's side (when thematically appropriate).
 

hexer

Guest
The ability to betray your companions at the last minute and join the final boss's side (when thematically appropriate).

I did that for my NWN module Sapphire Star, I remember people liking that a lot!
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
3,524
  1. Always allow allies and enemies encountered along the way to either turn up to participate or affect the battle in some way. Probably the single most satisfying thing you can do for the player to end their game with. Make their choices matter.
  2. Make the creatures, art and visuals distinct and ideally, unique to that location. Last thing you want is to be thrown back into generic sewer tileset to slog it out against those same goblins you fought all the way until now. Make it memorable and ominous. It's your last chance to impress.
  3. Make it hard, if not the hardest battle in the game. If the player is reaching the end and they're not being heavily challenged and forced to put all their experience, knowledge and resources into it then it has failed IMO
  4. You damn well better put in some non-combat resolution (espec. diplomacy) if you have allowed the player to complete the rest of the game that way. Being forced back into compulsory boss fight at the very last minute is extremely lame. Any players still on the fence will immediately end up in the negative camp after that.
I don't really need dynamic ending slides at all, I'm way more impressed if the final battle itself reflects the choices and events of the rest of the game even if that means the end cutscene is always going to be the same. Put the consequences into the playable part. End slides are overrated
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
5,867
Mind fuckery. Was your party actually on some epic quest to save bigboobedelfland, or are you actually a frog who ate a ziplock bag of psychedelics and is on the verge of developing sapience?

Who knows? I prefer the second one.
 

Riddler

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
2,353
Bubbles In Memoria
5) Interesting things happen as a result of both success or failure. I don't think ''Normality is restored'' is a great outcome as far as an interesting ending is concerned.

Expanding on this I think that not only should interesting things happen, it should also (obviously) provide a satisfying thematic and narrative conclusion to the story of the game and the main character.
 

Silly Germans

Guest
I like it when there is a properly crafted mystery/secret or some suspense which is resolved in the end in a satisfying way. This is hard and most games obviously fail at it
but if done right it is very rewarding.

Sadly most games wont even reach the level of amazement as the reveals in this advertisement

 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
11,326
Location
Flowery Land
A grand sum of the consequences for your actions. Allies you've made show up to help, and secrets you've learned show unlock useful things.
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
Probably unpopular opinion, but I much prefer games that culminate in a non-combat encounter. Like the ritual in original Magic Candle or that final puzzle level in Uukrul. Or some of the final "fights" in Quest for Glory series that are technically confrontations but mechanically are a series of small puzzles. Or The Summoning, where you just need to make a single choice - but you can only chose right if you've been paying attention to the lore breadcrumbs you find throughout the game.
I mean, I've being fighting stuff for the past 9 to 99 hours, it makes sense that the way to make the ending memorable is to make it something else.
 

howlingFantods

Learned
Joined
Jul 13, 2018
Messages
144
Location
Nose deep in stupid shit
Legend of Grimrock II had a fantastic final boss. The music swelled to an epic urgency as you fought waves of every enemy you encountered in the game, and all this while the wizard antagonist chased you from atop a dragon. You feel downright heroic slaughtering the hordes of enemies which were once much harder, and the music augments this feeling tenfold. It was fair, fun, and satisfying. I swear, that final boss (and dungeon) left me with the biggest stupidest grin on my face.
 

HarveyBirdman

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 5, 2019
Messages
1,044
Epic scale and challenge, followed by a cathartic ending cutscene accompanied by fitting music.
Basically, every ending to every piece of media ever should just be Gunbuster.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2018
Messages
9,428
Location
Grand Chien
The stakes have to be relevant to the player. Good example: BG2, where you finally get to deal with that motherfucker Jon Irenicus that has been fucking with you the whole game. Bad example: Deadfire, where you get to make a decision about some weird, pseudo-intellectual, metaphysical shit that only someone with autism could possibly care about.

The rest absolutely does not matter. Big epic combat scene, or small-scale 1v1 fight, or a battle of wits (e.g. Fallout: New Vegas' Legate Lanius), none of that matters compared to player investment. This is the only thing that matters - the player MUST be invested in the ending.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,620
deterministic system > RNG
 
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