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Your disrespectful attitude towards Cain, Boyarsky, Avellone has to stop

Riddler

Arcane
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Bubbles In Memoria
"you're done, that's it... great run, buddy, but it's over" and it's always been a relief for me.
Fuck that shit, you should die with your boots on.

Furthermore, it is possible to simultaneously respect their accomplishments and not respect their current opinions or even ability.
 

gestalt11

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Messages
629
"you're done, that's it... great run, buddy, but it's over" and it's always been a relief for me.
Fuck that shit, you should die with your boots on.

Furthermore, it is possible to simultaneously respect their accomplishments and not respect their current opinions or even ability.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by,crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
 

Junmarko

† Cristo è Re †
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Yes, they don't make Fallout 1 anymore. Can you not be an asshole about it?

They made games that defined your childhood. You're welcome.

I don't think any of the people who outright "hate" Cainarsky, were ever fans of their work. Plenty of fans here though, most are giving some genuine constructive criticism - Tim and Leon can definetely handle a bit of snark too, not sure why you think they couldn't lol.

It would be great if we got another Fallout, Arcanum or VtmB - wouldn't be so great for Tim and Leonard though. They sacrificed a lot in the process of making those games, you can only gamble total creative freedom + job security, for so long. Only option left for them was to either quit the industry, or try working for the corporate devils, which they tried and thankfully didn't remain.

Obsidian is ideally where you'd want them to be, it's not a giant studio but it's got enough experienced people up top to keep it secure - Cainarsky get enough creative freedom to stay focused, only yeilding some of it to the underlings in the company. That's the careful balance here, making sure the creative underlings share the same taste as them, otherwise Tim and Leon will deliver games that are only peppered with thier trademark. (They could just gas everyone who didn't work at Black Isle, but that's prob a bit extreme).
 
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Thonius

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Pro-Tip Corporation.
They are old farts who did great things IN TEAM. IT WAS TEAM EFFORT!
Fame hit them in the head and they are showing their true faces. Well Avelone is a freelancer and you gotta do what you gotta do as freelancer so he is excused at least. Rest just out of touch old farts with big ego, who no longer can produce anything of value even if you point loaded gun at them.
 

Zibniyat

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But you shouldn't try to ruin their post-careers with your shitty comments that come from your unrealistic expectations.

"Unrealistic" as in "what works, and what was done before with less experience and knowledge that it works"? Totally "unrealistic" indeed...

Yes, they don't make Fallout 1 anymore. Can you not be an asshole about it?

Yes, if they take my money for it. And most of the time they are arrogant enough to call upon Fallout/Planetescape Tournament/whatever to present themselves as able and creative. Fuck them.
 

TheImplodingVoice

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I love all 3 of them, even if they are dirty commies. However, Tim threw his fans under the bus with that presentation some years ago ("all that stuff you loved and supported us for was a mistake" would be a quick translation), and he still owes them an apology.

Other than that, they are 3 of the greatest, I love them, and want them here. But there is no love without hate, and they have to accept that there is going to be criticism too.

They need to get the fuck out of California (and Portland too), that place drives people insane. OW shows they simply can't make a good setting because they are too divorced from reality. Even (or maybe especially) actual commies like Prime Junta can smell the dissociation. I am not sure Avellone is that compromised but Cainarsky clearly are. They are stuck in a fantasy world of trite bullshit. Its impossible to make impactful (comedic or tragic) art when you are handicapped by that.
I'm not an American but it does seem that the crazies always come from California.
 

Duraframe300

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Fallout 2 (1998): become a pornstar, kill every NPCs and even children.

Outer Worlds (2019): the single-player RPG won't let you name yourself "Hitler", "prostitute" or "retard" because it will offend the computer. Also, you can't be a dick to any of the LGBT+ characters in the game, nor can you kill them. And white men are bad, as well as capitalism.

I admire Tim Cain for writing the framework/engine for the best RPG ever made. But he did smear himself with Outer Worlds. He's no longer cool.


To be fair, this was removed in the first post-release patch. Why it was ever included if you remove it the first chance you get. Nobody knows.
 

laclongquan

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Searching for my kidnapped sister
It's the SJWs among game devs try to test water. "Social justice blah blah" and the others just defer to that loudmouth idiotic ideas since "it's nothing special, right?". When audience feedback is a firestorm they cut it off in a hurry.

IT's the same tactic among government busybodies when they test the water with some new things. Sneak release something out to see social concensus about that before loudly praise it to the sky.
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
Fallout 2 (1998): become a pornstar, kill every NPCs and even children.

Outer Worlds (2019): the single-player RPG won't let you name yourself "Hitler", "prostitute" or "retard" because it will offend the computer. Also, you can't be a dick to any of the LGBT+ characters in the game, nor can you kill them. And white men are bad, as well as capitalism.

I admire Tim Cain for writing the framework/engine for the best RPG ever made. But he did smear himself with Outer Worlds. He's no longer cool.


To be fair, this was removed in the first post-release patch. Why it was ever included if you remove it the first chance you get. Nobody knows.
Too late.
 

Duraframe300

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It's the SJWs among game devs try to test water. "Social justice blah blah" and the others just defer to that loudmouth idiotic ideas since "it's nothing special, right?". When audience feedback is a firestorm they cut it off in a hurry.

IT's the same tactic among government busybodies when they test the water with some new things. Sneak release something out to see social concensus about that before loudly praise it to the sky.

The problem here is that audience feedback wasn't firestorm on that (As it should have been). There was like one, barely aggressive thread on their forum, almost nothing on reddit and like one youtube video. Adding to that, that it could be easily circumvented (by just adding a word) nobody cared.

SJW hair feedback was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more pronounced. Hell, SJW complaints in the writing (like Parvatis companion quest being shallow garbage) were a lot more pronounced. They could have gotten away with it easily. Yet this was the thing they removed above maaaaaany other complaints.
 
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Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
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, nor can you kill them.

Untrue. I saw an amusing webm where the PC sniped Parvati's girlfriend right in front of her, and she also has teary dialogue afterward about your killing her gf. Here's a similar video not quite as artistic, but all the dialogue is there:



Don’t blame Tim and Leonard, blame the invisible hand of the market. You don’t get to keep making mainstream games unless you give the people what they want. It should come as no surprise that the people have ridiculously bland taste.

The Outer Worlds is no Witcher 3 (beloved by both the mainstream and the Codex).

It's not even a Fallout: New Vegas (same).
 

Daedalos

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I have the deepest respect for devs of old. But doing something great once or twice, doesn't give you a green card to just be immune to criticism.

If you make a shit product, you deserve to get the heat from it, simple as that. It doesn't take away any of their accomplishments from the past, and people still respect them, but give credit where credit is due.
 
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Commissar Draco

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Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
, nor can you kill them.

Untrue. I saw an amusing webm where the PC sniped Parvati's girlfriend right in front of her, and she also has teary dialogue afterward about your killing her gf. Here's a similar video not quite as artistic, but all the dialogue is there:



Don’t blame Tim and Leonard, blame the invisible hand of the market. You don’t get to keep making mainstream games unless you give the people what they want. It should come as no surprise that the people have ridiculously bland taste.

The Outer Worlds is no Witcher 3 (beloved by both the mainstream and the Codex).

It's not even a Fallout: New Vegas (same).


Its fucking hilarious to listen to those self inserts :butthurt: words. its OK to leach from guy shekels and take his time (which should be spend you know saving hole star system) but bohooo I am soo mad when he kills her asexual dyke kind of girl friend.

:martini: best part of game on level with killing the parents of this broad who run away from parents to get them mad and got mad herself when they made logic choice to cash her life insurance.
 

Kyl Von Kull

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The Outer Worlds is no Witcher 3 (beloved by both the mainstream and the Codex).

It's not even a Fallout: New Vegas (same).

I’m not saying an RPG has to be bland mush to have mass market appeal. It’s certainly possible to thread that needle, although it’s exceedingly rare (and based on your examples, it seems to require both a big budget and an existing franchise with a pretty big fanbase). I’m just saying it’s much, much easier to achieve commercial success by making bland mush, especially when you’re working on a new IP with a shoestring budget.

Should they have tried to create something more engaging for the Troika fanbase anyway? That’s what I wanted, but going for crossover appeal was just as likely to get them another Bloodlines. Why take that risk? All of their experience in the industry was telling them that a game with a lot less ambition and a lot more polish would net them a much larger bonus.

Commercially, they made the right call. TOW was the second best selling game in America last month, behind only the new Call of Duty, and that doesn’t count any of the people who signed up to Gamepass to play it.

Tim and Leonard knew what they were doing and they did it very well. But what they were doing was making a game for the Fallout 3 fanbase.
 

undecaf

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
I just wish they'd get the freedom to get creative with their gameplay design with mitigated fear that it might not fit the mainstream idea of what must be fun for everyone; that they'd not have to "play it safe and bland". Anyone with some literary talents can muster up a wacky setting with thoughtful themes (quality of writing therein notwithstanding), and branching quests is pretty much a norm these days.
 

Deleted Member 22431

Guest
There are not enough edgy angry criticisms in this world to compensate all the dick sucking fanboyism infinite free-pass Obsidian developers get in this site. It's because of people like Bester that these decadent sellouts SJW developers are flooding the market with their atrocious games.
 

Roguey

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I’m not saying an RPG has to be bland mush to have mass market appeal. It’s certainly possible to thread that needle, although it’s exceedingly rare (and based on your examples, it seems to require both a big budget and an existing franchise with a pretty big fanbase). I’m just saying it’s much, much easier to achieve commercial success by making bland mush, especially when you’re working on a new IP with a shoestring budget.

Should they have tried to create something more engaging for the Troika fanbase anyway? That’s what I wanted, but going for crossover appeal was just as likely to get them another Bloodlines. Why take that risk? All of their experience in the industry was telling them that a game with a lot less ambition and a lot more polish would net them a much larger bonus.

Commercially, they made the right call. TOW was the second best selling game in America last month, behind only the new Call of Duty, and that doesn’t count any of the people who signed up to Gamepass to play it.

Tim and Leonard knew what they were doing and they did it very well. But what they were doing was making a game for the Fallout 3 fanbase.

As Junta pointed out, what they could have done to make it better wouldn't have cost them anything. Their core game loop is fine, the problems are with writing and garish art direction.

I also believe they may have tried to pull one over on the whole "we don't have a AAA budget" thing. Going by https://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation-4/outer-worlds/credits they had a core team of roughly 120 and nearly 100 art contractors. That's bigger than Skyrim and Fallout 4, especially with all the contractors (Fallout 4 had a core team of 100, and 30 contractors).
 

Latro

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"This isn't something you can talk your way out of! You. murdered. my. love. The Brightest light in my sky!"

what majestic dialog, shakespeare couldn't write this.
 

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