Quests are useless

[just]

no quests, no stats, no combat
just a story you read through
thats a true rpg

 

[JarlFrank]

You just have to watch out that people don't do anything to deadlock their run by trashing an important item or killing an important NPC. That's the other side of the matter.

One of my fondest RPG memories is restarting Morrowind in the middle of my first playthrough because I had to get a certain very rare book of which there are only two copies in the game, and one was guarded by so many ordinators my low stealth skill character had no chance of ever grabbing it, and the other... I had already stolen from Jobasha's shop of rare books, because it was positioned somewhere behind his back where I could easily grab it and it had a very high value. Then I sold it off to some random merchant elsewhere and by the point I got the quest to retrieve it, I had completely forgotten which merchant it was.

Yeah I had to restart the game so that sucked, but it was still an immensely memorable moment and made the world feel more real.

 

[JarlFrank]

I think the bigger problem is that writing has come to be seen as separate from level, quest and encounter designs. So the people who write narrative don't have much to do with basic gameplay and so when narrative dominates, we get passable gameplay at best. At the very least quest, encounter and level designs should be strongly linked. Because they are, whether the devs intend it or not.

Yes, this is a massive issue. People who want to become RPG writers need to realize that there is no such thing as a pure writer for an RPG. You don't just write shit, you have to design quests, preferably also have a grasp on basic level and encounter design.

An RPG writer's job has to be designing quests and integrating gameplay into the storylines he writes. If you approach RPG writing like novel or movie writing, you're doing it wrong and the game will turn out shit. If you don't ask yourself "What Would the Player Do?" at every step to come up with alternate solutions and approaches to your quests, and "Would this actually be fun to play through?", then you're doing it wrong.

 

[a Goat]

I agree. Down with quests, glory to dungeon crawlers - real RPG's.

 

[toro]

no quests, no stats, no combat
just a story you read through
thats a true rpg

or a book

 

[rusty_shackleford]

One thing I've noticed is that many writers now come from a background of writing literature rather than writing for interactive medium(that is, tabletop RPGs)
Off the top of my head: Arcanum's writer wrote D&D modules(IIRC they purposely sought him out because Cain liked his work,) Avellone has admitted to writing a lot of pnp material during/after college, Ziets wrote D&D adventures from an early age, etc.,
Look up the writers on modern RPGs and most of their backgrounds are writing crappy novels that barely sold anything.

 

[barghwata]

no quests, no stats, no combat
just a story you read through
thats a true rpg

Wait so books have been RPGs all this time and i didn't know; my entire life has been a lie.

 

[Serious_Business]

This clutter in my game is making me remind you that help is not free. I do not care about helping you at all, you must help yourself first. To be reminded about my shitty wife in my game is intolerable. I already have to carry around her everyday of my life, thank you sir, how about you shove it? I have come to believe that any attempts at creating something is the equivalent of you wanking in my face and while this excites me moderately, I want to part of it. I am trying to assert myself here. Now all this pretentious nonsense is making me sick. I do not give a shit about it. I want no part of it. You're never going to be great at anything. I tell my wife that all the time but she just doesn't understand. Just let me go through the grind of my life in peace. I'm trying to do my duty here, don't you understand? Do you think I need some pretentious nonsense trying to force me to help you, you useless cunt? Ahh this feels great, thank you RPG codex for giving me an outlet. I feel like a real man now, just like in the times men were men and things happened. Otherwise, all this wankery is just something I want no part of. I want no part in wanking, it is way too pretentious, and I am an utterly unpretentious man.

 

[Roguey]

Instead of narrative designers, there should be combat system engineers, combat encounter designers and dungeon designers.

You say this, yet you dismiss the so-called golden era, which was exactly this for the most part, and praise the Renaissance era, which put far more attention to narrative for the most part.

 

[Akratus]

Your stock just plummeted. Welcome to my iggy bin.

Reason: Pretentious storyfaggot/artfaggot.

Oh well, must be that time of the month.

Who's Ignoring Magnat
4 Lilura

Think you hit a nerve there.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Think you hit a nerve there.

It's not the first time she did that.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I do agree with many said here that quests should, for the most part, be aquaired trough more natural means (they should go hand in hand with exploration, game mechanics and not quest givers).
But quest givers and more structured quests also have their place. The more obvious examples of this is the main questline and guild quests. The main quest will always be a campgain, an unique adventure crafted by the devs. And the Guilds cannot escape having quest givers and specific tasks, as they are, you know... guilds, organizations that have a particular goal and hierarchy of people to fullfill it.

Your use of Bloodlines is a bad example.
As due to the nature of the setting, any vampire is required to be part of a faction and obey it's leaders or be immediately put down.

Finally RPG's are not just about killing shit.
Deus Ex, Fallout, Star Trail, Gothic and Morrowind are still best examples of what an RPG should be.

If you want "RPG's" that are solely about combat, grinding and loot than you have whole genres just for that tiring loop like jRPG's and MMORPG's.

 

[Wunderbar]

- I avoid anything written by a woman
- but there are plenty of good games with quests written by women
- Quests are useless

 

[Akratus]

Context is key to enjoyment in games, I would argue, for everyone playing them. I think people who say stories don't matter in games are fooling themselves. Doom is a great shooter but the context of you being a badass marine lone survivor taking on the forces of hell on mars is what pushes it over into awesome territory, and the atmosphere, music and art direction with cool demons and weapons go along with that. If you were a nobody fighting grey blobs the whole thing wouldn't work. I've played quite a few games that had good gameplay but bored me anyway because it had a retarded story or lacked context for the things I'm doing. Although perhaps I'm just touching on the difference in approach between those who want immersion and those who want to tinker with interesting mechanics or strategies.

 

[JarlFrank]

Artniggers are right up there on the gallows with storyfaggots

Indeed. The worst 'Dexers are these.

What if you consider level design an art form unto itself, comparable to painting or sculpting?

Because level design definitely is an art form like this, and games like Deus Ex and Thief are the perfect examples of level design as an art done right (RPGs with good dungeons also apply).

 

[Darth Canoli]

I am beginning to cringe more and more when an NPC approaches me and says I "might help him". Well thank you very much sir, how about you shove it? Thank you for adding clutter to my game!

Time for your retard harvest, enjoy ...

Well, if you like hack'n slash and actiontard games, why do you ever post in the cRPG section ?

The best way to simulate a RPG through modern medium is to add as many RPG elements as possible as the computer is a poor's man Game Master.
Meaning it needs good combat mechanism, for sure but also the best quest design and mechanism as possible, good quest design has already been done but it can be improved and it should be.

My best cRPG memories comes from very well designed side-quests and i'm hoping for more.

 

[barghwata]

You say this, yet you dismiss the so-called golden era, which was exactly this for the most part, and praise the Renaissance era, which put far more attention to narrative for the most part.

no quests, no stats, no combat
just a story you read through
thats a true rpg

What if you consider level design an art form unto itself, comparable to painting or sculpting?

Because level design definitely is an art form like this, and games like Deus Ex and Thief are the perfect examples of level design as an art done right (RPGs with good dungeons also apply).

Something tells me that Lilura's iggy bin is gonna get much larger today.

 

[JarlFrank]

Context is key to enjoyment in games, I would argue, for everyone playing them. I think people who say stories don't matter in games are fooling themselves. Doom is a great shooter but the context of you being a badass marine lone survivor taking on the forces of hell on mars is what pushes it over into awesome territory, and the atmosphere, music and art direction with cool demons and weapons go along with that. If you were a nobody fighting grey blobs the whole thing wouldn't work.

Yeah, Doom is the perfect example of a highly involved storyfag game with plenty of deeply written quests, hundreds of lines of dialogue, well-developed characters, and hours of cutscenes.

 

[JarlFrank]

You say this, yet you dismiss the so-called golden era, which was exactly this for the most part, and praise the Renaissance era, which put far more attention to narrative for the most part.

no quests, no stats, no combat
just a story you read through
thats a true rpg

What if you consider level design an art form unto itself, comparable to painting or sculpting?

Because level design definitely is an art form like this, and games like Deus Ex and Thief are the perfect examples of level design as an art done right (RPGs with good dungeons also apply).

Something tells me that Lilura's iggy bin is gonna get much larger today.

Considering Lilura's love for Deus Ex and the Baldur's Gate series, both of which live off their level design, she's bound to agree with me.

 

[Akratus]

Context is key to enjoyment in games, I would argue, for everyone playing them. I think people who say stories don't matter in games are fooling themselves. Doom is a great shooter but the context of you being a badass marine lone survivor taking on the forces of hell on mars is what pushes it over into awesome territory, and the atmosphere, music and art direction with cool demons and weapons go along with that. If you were a nobody fighting grey blobs the whole thing wouldn't work.

Yeah, Doom is the perfect example of a highly involved storyfag game with plenty of deeply written quests, hundreds of lines of dialogue, well-developed characters, and hours of cutscenes.

Obviously I'm not saying that. But it did have a story, and it added to the experience. Although I will agree that most stories in games are a waste of time and make me think they shouldn't have bothered to begin with, despite being a storyfag at heart myself.

Something tells me that Lilura's iggy bin is gonna get much larger today.

I used to think ignore lists were exclusively for fags but it seems fags and women are kindred spirits.

 

[barghwata]

Considering Lilura's love for Deus Ex and the Baldur's Gate series, both of which live off their level design, she's bound to agree with me.

Yes but she says level design is science not art.

 

[Dramart]

I think you should take a break from RPGs because it seems you're tired of them. Quests are like missions/levels in other games. Do you have a better idea?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Yes but she says level design is science not art.

It's a bit of both, that's why handcrafted maps and dungeons will always be superior to randomly "procedurally" generated shit.

 

[Ismaul]

I am beginning to cringe more and more when an NPC approaches me and says I "might help him". Well thank you very much sir, how about you shove it? Thank you for adding clutter to my game!

This is what actually happens when playing most RPGs:

-"Hey player, how about you go run pointless errands for a virtual character as a way to relax from working all day?"
-"Why yes I will I'm a good guy boy. Your wish is my command!" slurp slurp gaggle gaggle


Edit: And then I read the rest of your post. You solution to this is pure FedEx quests and dungeoncrawling? what?

 

[Tacgnol]

Considering Lilura's love for Deus Ex and the Baldur's Gate series, both of which live off their level design, she's bound to agree with me.

Yes but she says level design is science not art.

I'd say it's a little of both.

There is an important technical/design element to it, but doing it well also requires a certain level of talent/feeling for it.

Edit: Darth Canoli beat me to it.