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KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
2,930
Lul, my soldier just destroyed a mission objective he was taking cover behind. He was on overwatch and crabman came around the corner and boom all bullets gone into the objective. Also had to get into melee with melee crabman chipping at another objective cause it was impossible to get line of sight on that crabman any other way. That thing had some enormous invisible hitboxes.

I've noticed the overwatch and heavy cover in general are not very usefull, cause you'll never know if some piece of wood will block line of sight. Not sure the if realistic ballistics in this game are an improvement over nuxcom rng fest anymore.

whats the point of cover if you can almost automatically hit some tiny part of some creatures nose poking out from behind "full" cover from 200 yards?

There is nothing "realistic" about this type of "ballistic model". I think people just hear or like to say "ballistic model" or "projectile physics" and think it means something is really sophisticated. It just means the computer can draw a line from the end of the gun to the target and apply gravity and force to the projectile, there is nothing realistic about being able to hit some wart on a monsters ass from 800 feet in the middle of combat. Its fucking ridiculous. its not more "realistic" than "to hit" numbers, probably less.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
Lul, my soldier just destroyed a mission objective he was taking cover behind. He was on overwatch and crabman came around the corner and boom all bullets gone into the objective. Also had to get into melee with melee crabman chipping at another objective cause it was impossible to get line of sight on that crabman any other way. That thing had some enormous invisible hitboxes.

I've noticed the overwatch and heavy cover in general are not very usefull, cause you'll never know if some piece of wood will block line of sight. Not sure the if realistic ballistics in this game are an improvement over nuxcom rng fest anymore.

whats the point of cover if you can almost automatically hit some tiny part of some creatures nose poking out from behind "full" cover from 200 yards?

There is nothing "realistic" about this type of "ballistic model". I think people just hear or like to say "ballistic model" or "projectile physics" and think it means something is really sophisticated. It just means the computer can draw a line from the end of the gun to the target and apply gravity and force to the projectile, there is nothing realistic about being able to hit some wart on a monsters ass from 800 feet in the middle of combat. Its fucking ridiculous. its not more "realistic" than "to hit" numbers, probably less.
Yes,in real fire fights cover doesn't make you immortal too.
 

ybfelix

Novice
Joined
Aug 24, 2014
Messages
6
Location
Southeastern China
"Manual aiming", "ballistic model" is a weird mix of abstraction and physical reality. It implies the soldiers, monsters and map objects actually looked, positioned and distanced exactly like what's on screen, instead of a chess board representation. So under several layers of probabilistic abstraction, you suddenly get down to nitty gritty of "can you shine a laser pointer on that antenna poking out of that debris?"
 

prengle

Savant
Joined
Oct 31, 2016
Messages
355
goddamn. just take a look at this lanky motherfucking gremlin. take a gander. look into gollop's eyes. absolute bastard
2rml16.png
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
Patron
Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,346
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Yes,in real fire fights cover doesn't make you immortal too.

But it's better when games are trying to be realistic. Like this...

Yes, a 20 cm hole on the ground is an impassible obstacle (also, lol at piercing [edit: opening holes in] wall and floor with a WW2 rifle).
That said, combat in Silent Storms and SSS was really cool.
 
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Shog-goth

Elder Thing
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
596
Location
R'lyeh
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Piercing a wooden wall and floor with a WW2 era bolt-action rifle doesn't seem that impossible to me.
When I was in the Army, for training we used WWII-era Garand M1 semi-auto rifle and 3 cm wooden targets at 100 mt often were pierced or plain broked, so it's not impossible at all specially at point blank.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Developer
Joined
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Messages
4,346
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
So game bad?

also, lol at piercing wall and floor with a WW2 rifle.

Piercing a wooden wall and floor with a WW2 era bolt-action rifle doesn't seem that impossible to me.
Indeed, but the wall seems to be brick or concrete. Piercing it is totally reasonable, but creating large man sized holes in it (or the floor) seems a bit over the top to me.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,885
So game bad?

also, lol at piercing wall and floor with a WW2 rifle.

Piercing a wooden wall and floor with a WW2 era bolt-action rifle doesn't seem that impossible to me.
Indeed, but the wall seems to be brick or concrete. Piercing it is totally reasonable, but creating large man sized holes in it (or the floor) seems a bit over the top to me.
Maybe the house was full of termites and a few bullets is all it took for walls to start breaking apart :D
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
I don't know why some guys, while comparing this to Xcom 2, criticize its bugs: they forgot that Xcom 2 was a shitty messy pile of bugs and glitches at launch. It took months to fix them.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,885
I don't know why some guys, while comparing this to Xcom 2, criticize its bugs: they forgot that Xcom 2 was a shitty messy pile of bugs and glitches at launch. It took months to fix them.
Don't lie :P
It took an expansion to fix it. Base Xcom 2 game is the most shitty, buggy piece of shit software I ever played. And I am only talking about its engine and bugs.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
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Developer
Joined
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Messages
4,346
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I don't know why some guys, while comparing this to Xcom 2, criticize its bugs: they forgot that Xcom 2 was a shitty messy pile of bugs and glitches at launch. It took months to fix them.
That's why it should not be a big issue if the polished complete Steam version launches at the same time as XCOM 3 not-an-early-access version.
The main issue is that if they had to launch on epic store to fund further development, it might not bring that much more than what they got in advance or whatever. I don't know of many people who purchase games on Epic Game Store.
 

cvv

Arcane
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Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,071
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
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I don't know of many people who purchase games on Epic Game Store.

That's because those people's lives are not entirely consumed by ranting about this issue on the interwebz all of their waking time. I've bought 4 or 5 games on Epic and I got 10 more that I grabbed for free but I don't feel the urge to remind people about it at every opportunity. I also long gave up trying to talk to the anti-Epic crowd. All you get from that is spittle in your eyes.
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
2,453
Location
Romania
I don't know why some guys, while comparing this to Xcom 2, criticize its bugs: they forgot that Xcom 2 was a shitty messy pile of bugs and glitches at launch. It took months to fix them.
Don't lie :P
It took an expansion to fix it. Base Xcom 2 game is the most shitty, buggy piece of shit software I ever played. And I am only talking about its engine and bugs.
No it's not. The title of " most shitty, buggy piece of software" clearly goes to Underworld Ascendant. Period.
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
I don't know of many people who purchase games on Epic Game Store.

That's because those people's lives are not entirely consumed by ranting about this issue on the interwebz all of their waking time. I've bought 4 or 5 games on Epic and I got 10 more that I grabbed for free but I don't feel the urge to remind people about it at every opportunity. I also long gave up trying to talk to the anti-Epic crowd. All you get from that is spittle in your eyes.

As usual, as soon as some random hate bandwagon pops out on the internet, thousands of sheeps jump into it.

Shit-talking about Epic Store is like ranting against racism, but for gaming.

Do you remember the en-masse hate on Blizzard after the Honk Kong controversy? It all disappeared as soon as they announced Diablo 4.

Some of them have legitimate criticism and arguments, but the majority are just empty heads to fill with whatever random stuff is available at the moment, expecially if there is something to hate or complain vs.
 

PanteraNera

Arcane
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
1,023
The lack of enemy variety is another huge problem. During Phoenix Point’s initial Fig crowdfunding campaign, the game’s developers promised creatures that would adapt their tactics and even their physical makeup over the course of the game’s campaign, mutating themselves to counteract players on the fly. I never saw anything like that happen. The handful of critters that I met in the game’s opening hours were identical to the ones I went up against 20 hours in.
https://www.polygon.com/2019/12/3/20993568/phoenix-point-xcom-impressions

Heh, what was said at all the times? "We are holding back content for surprises when the game gets released".
More likely there never was more content than what was shown in the BackerBuilds.

So no Juggernaut (I posted some WIP pictures in here, also Julian mentioned it in the interview), nor any other new aliens?

No other "boss" than the crabqueen?

I am amazed at how much got cut from the game. What was that? "We delay the game because it has gotten so huge". "We take all the epic money to make more content".

Damn what a shame.

Nope haven't played it (yet).

Has anything big changed between BB5 and the RC? Any new content? New enemies? Are weapon mods in? Or soldier customization?

As far as I can tell the answer is No to all of these questions.

Wow, just wow!
 

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