Gold Box I played the NES port of Pool of Radiance for a bit; this game is terrible

[Martyr]

You might also consider pressing A.

this. you can even M(ove) while you're in A(rea)-mode. there are only a handful of games that let you walk around while you're looking at the map, so I don't quite get what seems to be the problem here with people complaining about missing maps.

 

[octavius]

Roguey gotta take issue with one of those tags—Baldur’s Gate was NOT the first good D&D CRPG. Dark Sun: Shattered Lands was very good when it came out and it holds up a lot better than the gold box games.

The problem with Dark Sun: Shattered Lands is that it is way too easy. Almost all of the fights require no thought whatsoever.

Yes, only the first few fights are a bit of a challenge, then it's so easy it's hard to stay sharp when the final and only really challenging battle comes.

 

[octavius]

RPGs released in 1992: Darklands, Ultima Underworld, Wizardry 7, Realms of Arkania, Ultima 7 (decline, but still good), Clouds of Xeen, Quest for Glory 3, and 3 Gold Box games, among some other titles of more dubious quality but not necessarily bad (Amberstar, Spelljammer, Warriors of the Eternal Sun, The Magic Candle 3, Waxworks...).

Also Black Crypt, the least bad Dungeon Master clone.

No other year can compete with this sheer amount of high quality titles, with 2 of them at the very least qualifying as masterpieces. The so-called golden age was truly golden, and Lilura is never right.

1993 was as good or almost as good as 1992. I consider 1992-1993 the Golden Age of CRPGs. Lilura's Renaissance is more of a golden age for PC games in general, IMO.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

your fault for taking advice from people who only pretend to play games

 

[Prehistorik]

I first played this in 2016, and enjoyed my playthrough.

I used Gold Box Companion to make the interface less cumbersome, which improved my playthrough quite a lot (streamlining in the good way).

The random encounters became a bit tiresome later on, and yes most of the fights you go through are 20 goblin meatgrinders, but overall I enjoyed the game. It still holds up well enough if you like turn based D&D combat. ToEE and KotC are better, sure, but within the context of its time PoR is pretty damn great.

Had similar experience. I've played it like 6 years ago, during work related trip (maybe that helped). Enjoyed it a lot, couldn't stop playing.

Even though I played it without Companion and even without mapping anything.
Navigated by memory and got to the end, but didn't find the fucking dragon. And had no time as my trip finished.
Still have the save, need to finish it one day.

 

[Void_Pickle]

You said (foolishly) bad game, not bad level. If you want to beclown yourself you're always free to do so.

Ok, I hurt yer feelings. It's a game from your childhood. Maybe it's not that bad, since a lot of you enjoyed the game. I will change the adjective I used, it's too archaic to my taste, and I don't think the game will get better at level two. Moving through the map is confusing, even drawing a map. Maybe the battles will get better, but I don't think so.

Use Gold Box Companion and you won't have to draw a map.

The clue book also has maps, I ended up using those a fair amount. Particularly for the world map areas.

I played through POR and it's sequels just this past summer and really enjoyed them quite a bit. There really is something quite satisfying about the combat.. albeit maybe a bit
less so for much of POR itself compared to later entries.

They aren't exactly comparable to the infinity engine games, but I still found them to be well worth a playthrough.

Now I can move on to Dark Sun and.. Eye of the Beholder (once I get around to finishing Dungeon Master anyway).

 

[Roguey]

The AD&D rules system which this game was based upon was not about being a murderhobo. The lack of healing options outside of safe areas, coupled with the high amount of enemies that give little value in terms of experience in contrast to gaining treasure, were there to discourage players from fighting everything they ran into. That is why this game had the option, which was always a large part of D&D encounter resolution, to parley (I believe the first character's Charisma score was significant in affecting the outcome of the parley option chosen in the Gold Box games. In D&D it was the character chosen whose side won initiative that acts as the "speaker" and known faction associations had an affect as well, such as racial preference and known religious affiliations, particularly for Clerics and Paladins). Also, searching in D&D caused the chance for an encounter to occur to rise significantly. Therefore it was never something adventurers did every time they moved one square down a hallway, nor when they were attempt to return to a safe area.

Of course, vidya gaem players were too retarded to not try and kill everything they encountered, causing a number of critics to point out these so-called "flaws" in design. Not surprising, this ignorant opinion is still held by many moderntard role-players who most likely started playing on either a console, computer, or 3.X garbage that still doesn't understand the point of the game. Neither Conan, nor Fafhrd ever had a kill count as high as your typical Pathfinder, or 5E player. Cugel the Clever didn't ever backstab/sneak-attack, so much as bullshit his way through (and into) every bad circumstance he encountered. Magic was always limited, but extremely deadly when used correctly, as T'sain proved by defeating the much more powerful wizard Mazirian; cleverly using the few spells she had to full effect.

I did my best to avoid the random encounters in the slums at first. I didn't parley, but I did wait, and most of them went away. Then it turns out that, no, in order to clear the area (and get the acknowledgement for having done so) you have to kill all of them. You are absolutely intended to kill everything in that area, and the only tolerable way to do so is to put them all to sleep and deliver the coup de grace. Additionally, Pool of Radiance's core gameplay is nothing but combat. Diceroll-based abstracted speech checks aren't engaging gameplay.

But if you like tactical combat and have a sense of accomplishment as you level up then it is for you.

Casting sleep and killing everything effortlessly is not tactical.

 

[Casual Hero]

RPGs released in 1992: Darklands, Ultima Underworld, Wizardry 7, Realms of Arkania, Ultima 7 (decline, but still good), Clouds of Xeen, Quest for Glory 3, and 3 Gold Box games, among some other titles of more dubious quality but not necessarily bad (Amberstar, Spelljammer, Warriors of the Eternal Sun, The Magic Candle 3, Waxworks...).

No other year can compete with this sheer amount of high quality titles, with 2 of them at the very least qualifying as masterpieces. The so-called golden age was truly golden, and Lilura is never right.

Don't forget, Might and Magic IV: Clouds of Xeen!

 

[Grauken]

The AD&D rules system which this game was based upon was not about being a murderhobo. The lack of healing options outside of safe areas, coupled with the high amount of enemies that give little value in terms of experience in contrast to gaining treasure, were there to discourage players from fighting everything they ran into. That is why this game had the option, which was always a large part of D&D encounter resolution, to parley (I believe the first character's Charisma score was significant in affecting the outcome of the parley option chosen in the Gold Box games. In D&D it was the character chosen whose side won initiative that acts as the "speaker" and known faction associations had an affect as well, such as racial preference and known religious affiliations, particularly for Clerics and Paladins). Also, searching in D&D caused the chance for an encounter to occur to rise significantly. Therefore it was never something adventurers did every time they moved one square down a hallway, nor when they were attempt to return to a safe area.

Of course, vidya gaem players were too retarded to not try and kill everything they encountered, causing a number of critics to point out these so-called "flaws" in design. Not surprising, this ignorant opinion is still held by many moderntard role-players who most likely started playing on either a console, computer, or 3.X garbage that still doesn't understand the point of the game. Neither Conan, nor Fafhrd ever had a kill count as high as your typical Pathfinder, or 5E player. Cugel the Clever didn't ever backstab/sneak-attack, so much as bullshit his way through (and into) every bad circumstance he encountered. Magic was always limited, but extremely deadly when used correctly, as T'sain proved by defeating the much more powerful wizard Mazirian; cleverly using the few spells she had to full effect.

I did my best to avoid the random encounters in the slums at first. I didn't parley, but I did wait, and most of them went away. Then it turns out that, no, in order to clear the area (and get the acknowledgement for having done so) you have to kill all of them. You are absolutely intended to kill everything in that area, and the only tolerable way to do so is to put them all to sleep and deliver the coup de grace. Additionally, Pool of Radiance's core gameplay is nothing but combat. Diceroll-based abstracted speech checks aren't engaging gameplay.

But if you like tactical combat and have a sense of accomplishment as you level up then it is for you.

Casting sleep and killing everything effortlessly is not tactical.

You have to look deeper, it's a meditation on conflict resolution and the inevitability of physical violence

 

[Jason Liang]

Roguey, how far did you actually get. The slums are the first area, so ofcourse the combat is pretty basic.

Did you at least get to the part where you leave Phlan proper and start exploring the overworld?

ofc the combat is not that challenging if you roll a balanced party. As opposed to say, rolling a party of 5 thieves or playing the game solo

 

[JDR13]

Shocking... someone playing a 30 year-old game for the first time and thinking it sucks.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Play Pool of Radiance Remastered for NWN2 instead. It's one of the few modules that make that game bearable.

Watching the screen almost made me want to play it and then i remembered NWN 2 gameplay ...

 

[Roguey]

Roguey, how far did you actually get. The slums are the first area, so ofcourse the combat is pretty basic.

Did you at least get to the part where you leave Phlan proper and start exploring the overworld?

ofc the combat is not that challenging if you roll a balanced party. As opposed to say, rolling a party of 5 thieves or playing the game solo

I completed four quests (slums, sokal keep, library, auction) which is 25% of the game. I could leave Phlan if I wanted to.

Seems to me like the plan is to rely on sleep until you can rely on hold person and stinking cloud.

 

[Dorateen]

One could play the DOS version of Pool of Radiance, the PC platform of the game's intended design, the Holy Grail of computer role-playing games.

Or the false NES port.

 

[Darkzone]

But if you like tactical combat and have a sense of accomplishment as you level up then it is for you.

Casting sleep and killing everything effortlessly is not tactical.

Yes but sleep and stinking cloud doesn't work on higher level enemies and upon undead.
But tell me how did you applied sleep on the horde in Sokal Keep? It is not always about what you use, but also about how and on whom you use it.

I completed four quests (slums, sokal keep, library, auction) which is 25% of the game. I could leave Phlan if I wanted to.
Seems to me like the plan is to rely on sleep until you can rely on hold person and stinking cloud.

Later Fireball and Lightning Bolt are of more useful than stinking cloud. The thing is that stinking cloud is the only useful combat Level 2 spell.

Btw you should play the PC version i don't trust this NES thing. But i don't trust consoles in general and the only console that i ever have had was the Atari 2600.

 

[Grauken]

One could play the DOS version of Pool of Radiance, the PC platform of the game's intended design, the Holy Grail of computer role-playing games.

Or the false NES port.

Let's be honest, Roguey wouldn't enjoy any version of the game, it's just not what he likes in games.

 

[octavius]

Later Fireball and Lightning Bolt are of more useful than stinking cloud. The thing is that stinking cloud is the only useful combat Level 2 spell.

Don't underestimate the power of Stinking Cloud. It casts instantly, and can render the biggest giant or dragon helpless.

 

[Darkzone]

Later Fireball and Lightning Bolt are of more useful than stinking cloud. The thing is that stinking cloud is the only useful combat Level 2 spell.

Don't underestimate the power of Stinking Cloud. It casts instantly, and can render the biggest giant or dragon helpless.

Yes this still is my daughter's favorite spell and even i fall victim to it.
I cant remember how useful was it in late game and if it was not later games as in "Curse of the Azure Bonds" or "Secret of the Silver Blades" limited.

 

[Dorateen]

I cant remember how useful was it in late game and if it was not later games as in "Curse of the Azure Bonds" or "Secret of the Silver Blades" limited.

Stinking Cloud was effective all throughout Pools of Darkness. One of the things I enjoyed was how you could deploy the spell on the combat map, setting up walls of clouds for the enemy to walk through. Another example of tactical use of magic in the Gold Box series.

 

[Darkzone]

I cant remember how useful was it in late game and if it was not later games as in "Curse of the Azure Bonds" or "Secret of the Silver Blades" limited.

Stinking Cloud was effective all throughout Pools of Darkness. One of the things I enjoyed was how you could deploy the spell on the combat map, setting up walls of clouds for the enemy to walk through. Another example of tactical use of magic in the Gold Box series.

Also on V. Graveyard?

 

[Dorateen]

I cant remember how useful was it in late game and if it was not later games as in "Curse of the Azure Bonds" or "Secret of the Silver Blades" limited.

Stinking Cloud was effective all throughout Pools of Darkness. One of the things I enjoyed was how you could deploy the spell on the combat map, setting up walls of clouds for the enemy to walk through. Another example of tactical use of magic in the Gold Box series.

Also on V. Graveyard?

Undead don't breathe, so no, it won't work well there. There are monster specific exceptions. But the idea is that this 2nd level spell still works on powerful creatures even on an epic scale such as Bits O' Moander.

 

[Darkzone]

I cant remember how useful was it in late game and if it was not later games as in "Curse of the Azure Bonds" or "Secret of the Silver Blades" limited.

Stinking Cloud was effective all throughout Pools of Darkness. One of the things I enjoyed was how you could deploy the spell on the combat map, setting up walls of clouds for the enemy to walk through. Another example of tactical use of magic in the Gold Box series.

Also on V. Graveyard?

Undead don't breathe, so no, it won't work well there. There are monster specific exceptions. But the idea is that this 2nd level spell still works on powerful creatures even on an epic scale such as Bits O' Moander.

It was more of a rhetorical question to show that this tactic does not always work. I assume to remember but it is very clouded, that there was also a saving throw for the enemies for sleep and stinking cloud.

I cant remember how useful was it in late game and if it was not later games as in "Curse of the Azure Bonds" or "Secret of the Silver Blades" limited.

Stinking Cloud was effective all throughout Pools of Darkness. One of the things I enjoyed was how you could deploy the spell on the combat map, setting up walls of clouds for the enemy to walk through. Another example of tactical use of magic in the Gold Box series.

What i like here about the response is that you are telling one example of tactical application of Sleep and Stinking Cloud spell. I used it in Sokal Keep to block the horde and to get rid of of the archers.

 

[North Gibraltarian Dog]

your fault for taking advice from people who only pretend to play games

The other option is taking advice from belated teens who actually played Oblivion, Fallout 4, Diablo III, Andromeda or DA: Inquisition, more than once. And they don't pretend at all but actually enjoyed those things, unironically.

 

[Prehistorik]

Also don't forget there is FRUA POR version, with all the UI improvements.
But I didn't try it yet.

 

[Roguey]

Yes but sleep and stinking cloud doesn't work on higher level enemies and upon undead.

While true for sleep, Stinking Cloud works fine, there's just a saving throw vs poison. Undead can be managed with Turn Undead.

But tell me how did you applied sleep on the horde in Sokal Keep? It is not always about what you use, but also about how and on whom you use it.

I used it on the mob and plinked them with arrows while focusing my melee on the ogres. That was one of the fights I liked, yes.

I assume to remember but it is very clouded, that there was also a saving throw for the enemies for sleep and stinking cloud.

As per the rules, sleep has no saving throw at all. If you have 4 HD or fewer, you're falling asleep.

Anyway I decided to check out Ruins of Adventure which is the module Mike Breault, David Cook, Jim Ward, and Steve Winter created so SSI could adapt it into a computer game. Here's the section on the slums

The Slum District was once a neighborhood of lower- and middle-class dwellings. Since the townspeople of Phlan retook the section of the city known as Civilized Phlan, the slums have become a buffer zone between the evil forces that inhabit the rest of the city and the new settlers.

The Slum District is the next section of Phlan to be reclaimed—in fact, some of the braver, more pioneering souls have already begun rebuilding homes and shops in the area closest to the gate. No organized groups of orcs, kobolds, or any other evil force lives anywhere in this area. However,this area is still a haven for misfits and outcasts from both sides, many of them hungry and desparate. For encounters in this area, use Chart 7, “Unorganized Inhuman Town Areas," in the Random Encounters Section.

1-3) Refer to Chart 10
4) Orc band: These always appear in groups slightly less than the hit dice of the party
5) Goblin band: Same as orc bands
6) Hobgoblin band: These always appear in groups slightly more than the hit dice of the party
7) Useful ruins: Useful ruins are ruins that have some magic item the characters can use. These
ruins are guarded by a single monster powerful enough to give the PCs problems (DM’s option).
8) Undead band: Pick a random batch of undead to throw at the party.
9) Kobold band: They attack with missiles first and then run at first sign of trouble.
10) Ogre band: See earlier Chart, but there are more of them in this encounter.
11) Good human adventurers: Provide healing and good advice.
12-16) Refer to Chart 11
17) Ruins (See earlier Chart)
18) Gnoll band: Attack much like kobolds, above
19) Human Fighter Band
20) Refer to Chart 15

Turns out SSI actually made this slightly more palatable with 9 fixed encounters and 15 random. The map is 256 squares with each square representing 10 feet, and if I understand AD&D rules correctly, one rolls for a random encounter once per turn and one can explore 60 feet in a turn, so exploring the map means at least 42 encounters. Though as Fairfax put it in this great post, in tabletop you would have methods other than combat of dealing with all this. Not so in a computer game, especially in 1988.

Meanwhile in Sokal Keep

When the characters reach this point, the main gate will be attacked by a band of 35 orcs and 15 hobgoblins. These creatures secretly followed in canoes and now want to prevent the characters from reclaiming the fort. They do not have the passwords, so any remaining undead guards will automatically fight them. Unless the characters also use the password, the undead will fight them also.

Fortunately, it's not too bad.

Once the attackers have suffered 20% casualties, they will make a fighting withdrawal. If the attackers suffer 50% casualties, they rout.

10's certainly more lenient than having to kill all 50.

If the characters flee, the attackers chase them all the way back to their boats.