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Grand Strategy Imperator: Rome - the new grand strategy from Paradox

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
After fucking around during the free weekend all I can say is that they bloated the game with "things to click", often without sensible descriptions of what clicking things really does. It's the same problem I have with EUIV, you leave the game for a year and once you come back you have to relearn half of it. Many features also appear rather thoughtless - Steppe tribes receiving bonuses to ships for example.
I agree,don't use half of their retarded mechanics. Even the fucking estates are annoying garbage that i just leave to give me permanent bonus to something.
 

Preben

Arcane
Patron
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
3,821
Location
Failsaw, Failand
if only macedonia could get its shit together and roflstomp your hoplites with is 12 inch long sarissa.

Kleomenes III introduced sarissas to Sparta in the 3rd century, so Macedonia will find itself outgunned if it ever figures out how to move its armies into southern greece. I have a bit of a soft spot for them now, though, given that I made over 1000 gold and repopulated my land with slaves after burning all their unwalled cities.

Cleomenes III indeed rearmed Spartiates. All three of them.
 

razvedchiki

Erudite
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
4,265
Location
on the back of a T34.
Cleomenes rearmed 2000 ex helots with the sarissa on the eve of the battle of sellasia,which he lost.
Anyway the macedonian phalanx dominance over the traditional phalanx doesnt mean that it can not be beaten by a hoplite style army in open field battle,this happened at least once in the lamian war shorty after alexanders death.
Not sure if all these are replicated somehow in game,from what i saw though all hellinistic states share the same units and traditions,ie with sparta you can build companion cavalry and pezethairoi phalangitai.
 

troz

Educated
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
35
This is one of the most puzzling things to me. Why the fuck did they put jews everywhere? Having a few pops in Babylonia or Egypt is historically correct, as far as I know. Most likely even a pop in Carthage, since punics and hebrews are quite related.
But having jews in Greece or Rome as a significant amount of total population in 304 BC is just fucking retarded. At that time they where still mostly known for being xenophobic hillbilly retards no one likes instead of xenophobic nomadic cutthroats no one likes.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
5,675
Don't know about current version, but on release, jews were an ethnic majority on the northern coast of Black Sea. I honestly don't know what the fuck this is supposed to be. And there's so damn many of them too - they're made out to be super numerous and ever present.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
Patron
Developer
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,456
Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Cleomenes rearmed 2000 ex helots with the sarissa on the eve of the battle of sellasia,which he lost.
Anyway the macedonian phalanx dominance over the traditional phalanx doesnt mean that it can not be beaten by a hoplite style army in open field battle,this happened at least once in the lamian war shorty after alexanders death.
Not sure if all these are replicated somehow in game,from what i saw though all hellinistic states share the same units and traditions,ie with sparta you can build companion cavalry and pezethairoi phalangitai.

No, it's before that; the reformed army dabbed all over the Peloponnese. Plutarch says 4,000 men were elevated and armed before Aratus invited the Macedonians. Also, he didn't just grab a bunch of helots and equip them - he took mothakes, trophimoi, hypomeiones, and (if the numbers were still insufficient), any free people of note. Polybius doesn't spend much ink on this issue, but he points out that various non-Spartans were admitted to the citizen body during this period (such as the Mantineans).

...[Cleomenes] said, the whole land should be common property, debtors should be set free from their debts, and foreigners should be examined and rated, in order that the strongest of them might be made Spartan citizens and help to preserve the state by their arms. "In this way," he said, "we shall cease to behold Sparta the booty of Aetolians and Illyrians through lack of men to defend her."

After this, to begin with, Cleomenes himself placed his property in the common stock, as did Megistonoüs his step-father and every one of his friends besides; next, all the rest of the citizens did the same, and the land was parcelled out. Cleomenes also assigned a portion of land to each man who had been exiled by him, and promised to bring them all home after matters had become quiet. Then he filled up the body of citizens with the most promising of the free provincials, and thus raised a body of four thousand men-at‑arms, whom he taught to use a long pike, held in both hands, instead of a short spear, and to carry their shields by a strap instead of by a fixed handle. Next he devoted himself to the training of the young men and to the "agoge," or ancient discipline, most of the details of which Sphaerus, who was then in Sparta, helped him in arranging. And quickly was the proper system of bodily training and public messes resumed, a few out of necessity, but most with a willing spirit, subjecting themselves to the old Spartan regime with all its simplicity...


I do see the source of confusion, though. Plutarch says that there was a later group made into phalangites - when Antigonus was being an arsehole, Cleomenes allowed helots to purchase freedom and then armed 2,000 in the Macedonian fashion. This was a separate group, though; Cleomenes had already trained and armed twice as many during earlier reforms.

Regardless, I demand you apologise to the ghost of King Kleomenes III.

On your final comment, I think you're right that the game just uses Macedonian terms for all the Greek armies. Sparta does have some heavy infantry buffs thanks to its form of government, and it has manpower buffs from the buildings. On an important practical note, Sparta also starts with iron so it can produce heavy infantry. Sparta does not begin with horses, though, so unless you set up some trade routes you will not be fielding companion cavalry.



This is one of the most puzzling things to me. Why the fuck did they put jews everywhere? Having a few pops in Babylonia or Egypt is historically correct, as far as I know. Most likely even a pop in Carthage, since punics and hebrews are quite related.
But having jews in Greece or Rome as a significant amount of total population in 304 BC is just fucking retarded. At that time they where still mostly known for being xenophobic hillbilly retards no one likes instead of xenophobic nomadic cutthroats no one likes.

Don't know about current version, but on release, jews were an ethnic majority on the northern coast of Black Sea. I honestly don't know what the fuck this is supposed to be. And there's so damn many of them too - they're made out to be super numerous and ever present.

Yep, it's pretty fucking ridiculous. It doesn't even work with the game mechanics, because they immediately start leaving/converting. In the crap release version you could just spend mana to turn them into Spartans, but whatever.
 
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Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,266
Location
Poland
There were major populations of Jews in northern Black Sea area, how do you think Khazars got converted? They were (((traders))) trading on the important routes there.
 

Preben

Arcane
Patron
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jan 18, 2017
Messages
3,821
Location
Failsaw, Failand
There were major populations of Jews in northern Black Sea area, how do you think Khazars got converted? They were (((traders))) trading on the important routes there.

Khazars happened one thousand years after Imperator's startdate. They were converted by Radhanite merchants who themselves were a thing because the Jews were dispersed after failed uprisings against Rome.
 

troz

Educated
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
35
There were major populations of Jews in northern Black Sea area, how do you think Khazars got converted? They were (((traders))) trading on the important routes there.

This is after the destruction of the second temple. That event isn't even in the games timeframe.
Modern Judaism e.g. the happy merchant came only to be once the rabbis/pharisees were turned into the dominant power inside Judaism. This happened due to the destruction of the second temple which also destroyed the jewish clergy caste.
The Rabbis invented some shit called the oral law which allowed the jews to circumvent most of their traditions and this turned the hillbilly into the happy merchant. Jesus also happened in the meantime.
 

Wilian

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
2,819
Divinity: Original Sin
Seems like after downloading this during the free weekend event I can just now turn my Steam into Offline mode, launch the game via exe and it works fine without buying. Thanks for free game I guess?
 
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
289
I've been playing this over the holidays. I'm pleasantly surprised. It looks really good, but I can see inevitable DLC making it better. The bare bones systems for the Republic work, but it is confusing to understand any character interactions compared with CK2. The missions give a good feel for historical objectives.

I cant really understand the pop system, or how to keep my populace fed. There's all sorts of buttons to push to spend your mana. They actually make sense, but the mana being used for just about everything gets old. I tried to use client states but they take ages to integrate and forever to get over you force-vassalizing them. Better to just conquer. That's a disappointment, and I wish there were kingdoms being willed and more dynastic politics. I saw a notification that I could mess with Makedon's dynastic struggle but couldn't figure out how to do so.

I do hope this game keeps getting support because amazingly enough it shows real potential.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,158
I've been playing this over the holidays. I'm pleasantly surprised. It looks really good, but I can see inevitable DLC making it better. The bare bones systems for the Republic work, but it is confusing to understand any character interactions compared with CK2. The missions give a good feel for historical objectives.

I cant really understand the pop system, or how to keep my populace fed. There's all sorts of buttons to push to spend your mana. They actually make sense, but the mana being used for just about everything gets old. I tried to use client states but they take ages to integrate and forever to get over you force-vassalizing them. Better to just conquer. That's a disappointment, and I wish there were kingdoms being willed and more dynastic politics. I saw a notification that I could mess with Makedon's dynastic struggle but couldn't figure out how to do so.

I do hope this game keeps getting support because amazingly enough it shows real potential.
Pop system is quite simple, there's 3 strata Citizen, freemen and slaves and each of them have culture+religion.For an optimal empire you want everyone from the same culture and religion, thats why you build theatres for culture and temples for religion . Go for culture first religion gives minor satisfaction penalty.You build aqueducts to attract pops in well built and specialized cities, one for integration, one for research and so on . Apply governor policy crushing repression ,raze cities in provinces with diversity ...How to keep them fed ? If a province does not produce enough food (surplus every 15 pops of slaves) then import it from a trade route, if you dont have some, create a trade route with political mana then import all the food needed.
The game is indeed a lot better since release, this is how it should have been day one.
 
Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
3,535
It's a Bronze Age mod.

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Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
289

This update seems pretty weak. Religious pantheon dont matter that much and a boring gameplay element. It seems low effort content released just to have something to release. What would be a great update is to make all those character ambitions and interactions matter at all.

Also, why the fuck does the ledger keep resetting my sort order every fucking time I open it? But, hey, you can change which aspect of Mars your state patronizes!
 

Fedora Master

Arcane
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
27,808
Differentiating religions should have been obvious from the start. The fact that they originally thought they could get away with all religions working the same way says a lot about their design philosophy.
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
5,675
Did they make the game less shit yet? Gave it some flavour, depth, and fixed the AI?
 

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