Copying real world regions in fictional worlds is very lazy

[overly excitable young man]

I'm playing Disco right now and it's smth which i find annoying.
They copied like every country. Russia, the Netherlands, Japan and so on.
And the copies have no original touch whatsoever.
They even invented new names for "niggers" and "gooks".

Is there anything that wouldn't have worked with a Weimar Republic historical setting?
Like we need container transporting helicopters ...

But enough other game worlds have the exact same problem.
Warhammer basically just is the real world.
Witcher universe copies 1 to 1.
Dragon Age, DSA (the black eye), Elder scrolls.

Either make it historical or invent smth new, you lazy bastards!

 

[Delterius]

I agree but I also hate 99% of pure fantasy worldmaps tbh.

There's no way out.

 

[deama]

It's best to stick to reality unless you're someone like Tolkien, or Frank Herbert.

 

[Raghar]

I agree but I also hate 99% of pure fantasy worldmaps tbh.

Why? Maps not based on real world planets are sign of creativity.,

 

[Commissar Draco]

History is far more fantastic than anything the soy infused writers can come up with anyways.

 

[Atchodas]

Not sure why does this matter as long as gameplay is good they can copy or invent whatever

 

[Delterius]

I agree but I also hate 99% of pure fantasy worldmaps tbh.

Why? Maps not based on real world planets are sign of creativity.,

I dunno man. Its just that often enough there's something that rubs me the wrong way. You look at the real world and you've got these large, never ending landmasses with a plethora of cultures. And then the fantasy world is like a tiny australia with as many biomes as brazil, an inland india-esque world where rivers flow upward and so on.

Good worldbuilding is just that. Its good, its competent and its creative. Sometimes it makes sense to mirror the real world somewhat, even if its not a direct historical fantasy world. But what matters is that the decisions made make sense for someone who already has a vision. I don't think you're instantly a more creative person if you don't mirror the current planet Earth. More ambitious perhaps that you'd want to make your own world. Doesn't mean you'll do a good job at it.

 

[overly excitable young man]

They only make fantasy games because of magic anyway.
If they want to copy countries and the whole history behind them why not use smth semihistorical like King Arthur or the Nibelungenlied?

 

[Hobo Elf]

I wish they'd copy more real world regions that aren't just pseudo-medieval Europe through the lens of Americans with the occasional not-Asia China/Japan thrown in the mix.

 

[Yosharian]

It's so much easier to just make shit up than it is to accurately simulate a real-world location

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[BING XI LAO]

I totally agree, if people are going to write slightly altered real-world stuff, then they should at least mix and match it. Like if you do nomad raiders, then add a Hindu-style caste system, or if you do mediaeval europe, then go all out on the big stone castles/cathedrals angle and combine that with roman style roads and aqueducts and throw in Jewish slave labour or something. Or do late mediaeval netherlands with stadhouders, schieringers, vetkopers, but instead of reclaiming land from the sea/swamp they are building irrigation in a desert or somesuch.

 

[Lurker47]

Either make it historical or invent smth new,

Historical allusions can do a lot to elevate the world. In a way, it's almost like alternate history. If fantasy is "things that never were or never can be" then taking idealized elements of a civilization and displacing them can be very interesting from a creative perspective. It could speak to a greater human mythos (unintentionally) which I'd like to believe is the common underlying current of fantasy.

That's my idiosyncratic take though.

Regardless of that, I don't think "new" world-building isn't as black-and-white as it might seem.

someone like Tolkien, or Frank Herbert.

And even they took inspiration from real-world cultures, places, and events so.

 

[Norfleet]

Watching writers try to come up with believable cultures out of nowhere is often cringeworthy in and of itself. They have this tendency to give the society a hat, and then neglect to cover how it is that this society can function when everyone is that hat. Watching them try to build a society by ripping off PARTS of an existing society, and ignoring that the entire thing has to function as a cohesive unit and that societies are shaped by their circumstances and environments and it doesn't work when you transplant it piecemeal, also cringeworthy.

At least when they simply completely rip off an existing thing, like "desert camel-people", we know that this is an actual working society that really exists.

 

[deama]

Either make it historical or invent smth new,

Historical allusions can do a lot to elevate the world. In a way, it's almost like alternate history. If fantasy is "things that never were or never can be" then taking idealized elements of a civilization and displacing them can be very interesting from a creative perspective. It could speak to a greater human mythos (unintentionally) which I'd like to believe is the common underlying current of fantasy.

That's my idiosyncratic take though.

Regardless of that, I don't think "new" world-building isn't as black-and-white as it might seem.

someone like Tolkien, or Frank Herbert.

And even they took inspiration from real-world cultures, places, and events so.

You can't make something completely new, it has to be inspired by something. If you find something that hasn't been done before and seems to be "completely" new to you, then you simply weren't aware of the precursors.

 

[Lurker47]

Either make it historical or invent smth new,

Historical allusions can do a lot to elevate the world. In a way, it's almost like alternate history. If fantasy is "things that never were or never can be" then taking idealized elements of a civilization and displacing them can be very interesting from a creative perspective. It could speak to a greater human mythos (unintentionally) which I'd like to believe is the common underlying current of fantasy.

That's my idiosyncratic take though.

Regardless of that, I don't think "new" world-building isn't as black-and-white as it might seem.

someone like Tolkien, or Frank Herbert.

And even they took inspiration from real-world cultures, places, and events so.

You can't make something completely new, it has to be inspired by something. If you find something that hasn't been done before and seems to be "completely" new to you, then you simply weren't aware of the precursors.

That's what I was thinking to say. I just couldn't find a way to fit it together with my other thoughts.

 

[overly excitable young man]

This thread is taking a weird turn.

I'm not against taking elements of the real world because that's basically how fantasy works.

What i'm against is copying the reality 1 to 1 and then naming it different.
Like all the countries in Disco. They just have a different name.
There wouldn't be any difference if you just that Revanchol (or how the state is called again) would be just a fictional state in our world.
You can still have container helicopters and weird cars.

Or the French kingdom in Witcher. It's just France at this point. Pretty lazy.
At least with Temeria and Redania they had some kind of ideas.
And Nilfgard at least combined Roman Empire and Holy Roman Empire into one.
The flags of the northern kingdoms.
They could at least imagine new heraldics instead of Poland and France.
And so on...

 

[Norfleet]

What i'm against is copying the reality 1 to 1 and then naming it different.

It's uncreative, but it's the safest way to avoid making any obvious worldbuilding mistakes. If you DON'T change the names, you run the risk of directly contradicting the real source material in ways that directly offend people. If you deviate from the actual source material significantly enough to not be recognizably "X, but renamed", you may end up committing a worldbuilding fault. And if trying to worldbuild isn't the your primary goal, RENAMING IS GOOD ENOUGH.

 

[v1rus]

One of the things i majorly disliked about disco (and i dislike a lot of things, even tho i think the game is a masterpiece) is the faux fictional setting. Not because a lack of creativity, but, really, why do that dudes? We all know you are trying to directly comment on real world, and thats perfectly ok. And ye, you want a different vibe, thats also cool, take an alternate history or w/e route.

But i really couldnt be arsed to try and remember who the fuck occidentals are, who the fuck are orannjees or whatever the fuck. The only thing i remember is Yugograad, and thats because im a fucking Yugo.

 

[overly excitable young man]

What i'm against is copying the reality 1 to 1 and then naming it different.

It's uncreative, but it's the safest way to avoid making any obvious worldbuilding mistakes. If you DON'T change the names, you run the risk of directly contradicting the real source material in ways that directly offend people. If you deviate from the actual source material significantly enough to not be recognizably "X, but renamed", you may end up committing a worldbuilding fault. And if trying to worldbuild isn't the your primary goal, RENAMING IS GOOD ENOUGH.

If you just have a world map and here is French kingdom and there are Mongol hordes. Okay. I get that if you are going for a epic big world that needs to be filled.

But if you actually decide to show your lack of creativity by giving reskinned real world countries a prominent part smth went horribly wrong imo.

 

[J1M]

I'm playing Disco right now and it's smth which i find annoying.
They copied like every country. Russia, the Netherlands, Japan and so on.
And the copies have no original touch whatsoever.
They even invented new names for "niggers" and "gooks".

Is there anything that wouldn't have worked with a Weimar Republic historical setting?
Like we need container transporting helicopters ...

But enough other game worlds have the exact same problem.
Warhammer basically just is the real world.
Witcher universe copies 1 to 1.
Dragon Age, DSA (the black eye), Elder scrolls.

Either make it historical or invent smth new, you lazy bastards!

I like when people create coherent and internally consistent fantasy worlds. This requires more talent than a project created by a committee is capable of.

I am also fine with fantasy cultures acting as stand-ins for real-world ones if the creator has something interesting to say about them. Unfortunately, the same problem applies to this as well.

In the land of soy, regardless of the intended destination the only output is mediocrity.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Do game done in Bronze age before the First (documented by history) dark age.

Much more fantastic than Conan's Hyboberean age, First plate armors, motorized warfare using fleets of charriots, massive fortifications, globalized sea trade between seven empires, diplomatic treaties... and then 500 years of people living in caves and on cliffs with only Homer's poetry and Egypt preserved.

 

[Agesilaus]

Either make it historical or invent smth new, you lazy bastards!

I don't have an issue with fictional nations or individuals vaguely resembling reality. Take Game of Thrones for example, with the picts up north, the Scottish below them, and then various Englishmen, and of course the desert people and asiatic nomad hordes overseas. It can be kind of lazy, but it is also interesting to spot these points of similarities.

What I have a problem with is people who literally base their story in a historical period, make use of known societies and people, but totally shit on the source material. So many games and movies/shows do an absolutely dog shit job of doing any justice to the period and its leading figures. There's no real excuse for it, it just takes a little effort and appreciation for the theme. You can still do alt-history if you want, so long as you explain how a given character's decisions changed the situation.

It's right up there with fake C&C, which again is an unforgivable sin committed by so many AAA devs and others. There's no real excuse, beyond not wanting to spend the time and effort to flesh out a branching plot.

 

[ItsChon]

Disco Elysium is NOT a 1 to 1 copy of the real world with shit being just renamed. If you're unable to keep along with a dynamic exposition that slowly reveals aspects of the world, why the fuck are you commenting on it? Your assinine comments about Disco aside, your post in a vacuum is also stupid. You cite Warhammer, Witcher, and Elder Scrolls as being copies of the real world? What the literal fuck are you talking about? You should self-eject again.

 

[overly excitable young man]

Parts of the gameworld.
And you can't say that the French kingdom in Witcher or the Nords in Elder Scrolls are very imaginative.