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And here he is unphotoshopped:
The type of person who should keep his mouth closed, certainly.
That's a photo with bad lighting and he isn't as well-dressed of course it's going to make him look worse.
And here he is unphotoshopped:
From my understanding the Revolution was sparked byOh and you literally have an NPC saying that you just want rich people to get richer if you don't want to kill people in the name of communism. Literally the retarded commie stereotype and I'm not sure that was making fun at the stereotype. I mean, I'm not sure commies are able to laugh at themselves. Rarely anyone who's so much into an ideology is able to laugh at themselves.
I wouldn't say it's "focused on political bullshit". Political bullshit is more of the background, just like our real-life political bullshit and history. And you contradict yourself by saying that it "turns everything sour". It's exactly because it's all "political memes" is why it's funny for so many people (myself included). If the game actually treated ideologies seriously it'd have much less warm reception and be much less fun than it is in its current form.But, regardless if this pushes communism or not, the fact is that it's focused so much on political bullshit that it turns everything sour. A good setting and a potentially good detective story wasted of fucking political memes.
You can't talk about the past without points of reference. The state of Revachol is as it is, because there was the Revolution by the communards, the subsequent war with the Coalition and so on. It's not that much different from WW1 -> WW2 -> The Cold War -> Modern Times. So on one side you have "political crap" as part of the setting/world building, but it doubles as a comic relief.So yeah, I'm not sure what's the reason behind all that political crap, if not agendas. It was not only unnecessary, but also feels hamfisted.
For a man or aThis is Kurvitz. Actually a a bit of a looker imo.
Myeah, except whenever you go against communism or whatever else agendas the developers had it feels like it's done in a sarcastic way. Maybe I don't read it right, who knows.
Oh and you literally have an NPC saying that you just want rich people to get richer if you don't want to kill people in the name of communism. Literally the retarded commie stereotype and I'm not sure that was making fun at the stereotype. I mean, I'm not sure commies are able to laugh at themselves. Rarely anyone who's so much into an ideology is able to laugh at themselves.
But, regardless if this pushes communism or not, the fact is that it's focused so much on political bullshit that it turns everything sour. A good setting and a potentially good detective story wasted of fucking political memes. Yeah, I hate communism in particular, but I'm not really interested in discussing any of the political crap in the game, especially not with some NPCs.
So yeah, I'm not sure what's the reason behind all that political crap, if not agendas. It was not only unnecessary, but also feels hamfisted. Seemingly out of nowhere I get bombarded with random questions on where I stand on some political issues and out of nowhere have my "subconscious" telling me that I'm suddenly a follower of this or that. Speaking of which, I must either be an extremist centrist or the game really just cycles through all them, no matter what you do through the game, just trying to make you pick one or something.
Try going for the necktie. That's a serious... choke point.All this discussion is just prompting me to continue writing my review of DE I last got stuck on the combat system section...
Did you just stutter?This is Kurvitz. Actually a a bit of a looker imo.
hat's the reason behind all that political crap, if not agendas. It was not only unnecessary, but also feels hamfisted. Seemingly out of nowhere I get bombarded with random questions on where I stand on some political issues and out of nowhere have my "subconscious" telling me that I'm suddenly a follower of this or that. Speaking of which, I must either be an extremist centrist or the game really just cycles through all them, no matter what you do through the game, just trying to make you pick one or something.
Yeah, the "wanna build communism" was weird it appeared the first time because I didn't select choices that put me into starving populations. So yeah, it made me think "fucking commies, the fags on codex were right" at first, but as I played it more, it pretty much took any kind of choice(in some cases, it was the only choice related to some topic) as a "so you are into that, huh, you motherfuck. Shall we think more about it?" and that just me think the fags on codex were wrong.(The actual problem in both cases is that the detection / counters are not perfect, so sometimes you're just answering in a friendly way and the game suddenly pops a confession scene on you, or you just think Kim is a snowflake and suddenly game asks you if you'd like RACE SCIENCE. But, uh, you can tell it to fuck off, and choose your role, you know.)
Repeating words and not noticing is something I typically do when I post in the mornings.Did you just stutter?
.Still better than having Tekehu offering you buttseks within 15 minutes of adding him to the party.Ummm.... you understand how the thought system works, right? If you pick capitalist responses a few times, the game will suspect you might be interested in being a capitalist, and at some point, pop the question. At which point you can say, YES I EMBRACE IT, or UM ONLY A BIT, or NO FUCK YOU NEVER ASK ME AGAIN.
Wow, such 'political agenda' it has! Just like all those other RPGs with a romance agenda where NPCs ask you if you want a romance and you tell them to fuck off and they never bring it up again
(The actual problem in both cases is that the detection / counters are not perfect, so sometimes you're just answering in a friendly way and the game suddenly pops a confession scene on you, or you just think Kim is a snowflake and suddenly game asks you if you'd like RACE SCIENCE. But, uh, you can tell it to fuck off, and choose your role, you know.)
Yeah. On my first, sincere, playthrough the game made me out to be rather libertarian and slightly fascist. I think the authors' bias in classifying the player's responses is also present to some degree.
I meant this in a neutral way, not as criticism. Also, as another warning that the ideology labelling stuff in the game shouldn't be taken seriously.Yeah. On my first, sincere, playthrough the game made me out to be rather libertarian and slightly fascist. I think the authors' bias in classifying the player's responses is also present to some degree.
How could it not be?
Is a perfectly neutral viewpoint even possible? If so, what would that be?
Yeah. On my first, sincere, playthrough the game made me out to be rather libertarian and slightly fascist. I think the authors' bias in classifying the player's responses is also present to some degree.
How could it not be?
Is a perfectly neutral viewpoint even possible? If so, what would that be?
I think it's a parody "neutral extreme", and there is no way for you not to pick up any alignment offer.Yeah. On my first, sincere, playthrough the game made me out to be rather libertarian and slightly fascist. I think the authors' bias in classifying the player's responses is also present to some degree.
How could it not be?
Is a perfectly neutral viewpoint even possible? If so, what would that be?
Wasn't the moralist view considered neutral, among the extremes of communism, fascism and the free market? https://discoelysium.gamepedia.com/Kingdom_of_Conscience
I don't think it's bias as much as it is a classification issue. I am 100% positive that you will get a point to facism/racism whenYeah. On my first, sincere, playthrough the game made me out to be rather libertarian and slightly fascist. I think the authors' bias in classifying the player's responses is also present to some degree.
Flies eat shit etc. I have never ever seen anyone praise fo3 for it's writing that wasn't a cawadoody player to begin with.I can't even count how many people i know told me they liked the writing and defended the game
The game isn't bad with mods as an open world shooter. Just forget it has anything to do with FO and ignore the story. That's more than can be said about f3.but seeing how insanely successful Fallout 4 was despite having dogshit writing and being released after FNV, i can't help but doubt people's taste in writing, unless you think people like Fallout 4 because it has great "gameplay" or something haha.
>So, character development can only be mechanical?So, in your opinion, the character development can only be mechanical?Define "meaningful".
Like being actual mechanics behind it besides:
- Roll succeeded > go to path A
- Roll failed > go to path B
Like actually changing the gameplay in any way.
"Character development" in this game is clicking on + buttons randomly which may or may not result in you passing some skills checks, the difference between the two being different lines of text.
*Harthwain shurgs*Also, fuck off with your "define". It's the same bullshit every retard does when they insist on calling everything an RPG. "HURRR PLZ DEFINE RPG IF U CANT GIVE A DEFINTIONE THAT I AGREE WITH IT MEANS EVERYTING I SAY IS AN RPG IS AND RPG LOOOOOOOOL".
Human perception can differ from person to person, which is why there is discord concerning what is an RPG and what's not. I didn't expect you to come up with a satisfactory answer, which in itself is satisfactory, because expected as much.
Yeah, it isn't PnP RPG. It's a cRPG heavily inspired (if not straight up copy-pasted) by the PnP RPG setting made by the developers. It can't give you the same freedom as actual PnP RPG, but that's exactly why it has "c" before "RPG". Because some limitations are bound to be there, due to the nature of the game.You never played ANY PnP RPG.
And just so you know DE does not play like a PnP RPG. You don't get a list of actions to choose from in a PnP RPG.
I don't disagree that the system is important - of not THE most important - part of any RPG, but you're wrong saying that character development can ONLY be mechanical. Yes, you can develop your character from the mechanical side, but by limiting to that you are limiting his development as a character-person. Some PnP RPG systems do recognize the importance of that (Vampire the Masquerade, for example).>So, character development can only be mechanical?
Yes. The systems inherent in a computer role playing game are necessary to the development and growth of a character.
They didn't take out combat though. They severly limited combat to, like, two instances of it, and I'll agree that they should've given us more "combat encounters" than that.By taking out combat you are subtracting from the experience, not adding to it.
1) It isn't [a nonsensical question]. The same word can be understood differently from person to person. If you can't define what's meaningful, then we can't discuss it.Such a question is nonsensical. Ask yourself this, why does DnD/Pathfinder make for better systems when it comes to role playing. It's because the systems allow you to further define your character by the complexity and depth that is available within them.
>Yes, you can develop your character from the mechanical side, but by limiting to that you are limiting his development as a character-person.I don't disagree that the system is important - of not THE most important - part of any RPG, but you're wrong saying that character development can ONLY be mechanical. Yes, you can develop your character from the mechanical side, but by limiting to that you are limiting his development as a character-person. Some PnP RPG systems do recognize the importance of that (Vampire the Masquerade, for example).>So, character development can only be mechanical?
Yes. The systems inherent in a computer role playing game are necessary to the development and growth of a character.
They didn't take out combat though. They severly limited combat to, like, two instances of it, and I'll agree that they should've given us more "combat encounters" than that.By taking out combat you are subtracting from the experience, not adding to it.
What they really did wasn't removal of combat, which is what people are wrong when complaining about the lack of combat; they put it on the same level as the rest of interactions. But combat, as an act, can be done within that system. It's just less wargamey than in other cRPGs. That's the difference. For some this could mean "there is no combat, because there is no separate combat mechanic", but that's objectively wrong thing to say. It's better to say "I don't like that combat is basically like any other interaction in the game".
I hope I made this difference clear enough.
1) It isn't [a nonsensical question]. The same word can be understood differently from person to person. If you can't define what's meaningful, then we can't discuss it.Such a question is nonsensical. Ask yourself this, why does DnD/Pathfinder make for better systems when it comes to role playing. It's because the systems allow you to further define your character by the complexity and depth that is available within them.
2) Do they? Systems serve as a scaffoldings for players to express themselves. I'd argue that Disco does a pretty good job at allowing players to express themselves, given its system. Yes, it isn't the classic system (such as DnD or Pathfinder) and its rules are very simple, but to say it's worse for role playing is straight up wrong.
Unless by role playing you mean having complex mathematical equations and in-depth tactical encounters a'la Icewind Dale. I liked Icewind Dale, but I'd argue it didn't leave much room for role playing, because it was mainly a combat-oriented game. So is RPG about combat? For me the combat event is an eventuality in an RPG, and not even the most interesting one. If we were talking about a roguelike, then I could understand putting heavy (if not total) emphasis on combat...
It doesn't really change anything I've said though.>Yes, you can develop your character from the mechanical side, but by limiting to that you are limiting his development as a character-person.
[...] it is the mechanics that are more profound than the abstract. For it is the mechanics in which demonstrates the character's capabilities by giving you direct feed back. This feed back fundamentally enforces the choices you made upon creating the character. This nuance reflects and supports your role playing choices by supplementing them within the rules, and via the game play systems. In other words the mechanics and game play systems are being used as a means to support those choice in a impactful way.
When I said "Vampire the Masquerade" I wasn't talking about Bloodlines. I was talking about the PnP RPG system.Bloodlines still had combat [...]
Not sure who you're arguing here with. I never said combat is not part of the RPG experience. What I question is the focus. You can play any RPG like tactical combat game/wargame, but then you're not there for the role playing: you're there for combat. If I want to play games for their combat I look for combat games, not RPGs. That's why my gold standard for cRPGs is closer to games like Planescape: Torment or Fallout 2, rather than Icewind Dale 1/2.Combat is not an item to check off in a list. It is an ingredient that is necessary for the role playing experience to be complete. Just as how a good sound track, story telling, companions, and setting; are all essential ingredients.
You're missing the point. I never said that "a story based progression system is able to exist without mechanics supporting it", because I never ever questioned that Disco has mechanics supporting character's progression in the first place.>It isn't [a nonsensical question]. The same word can be understood differently from person to person. If you can't define what's meaningful, then we can't discuss it.
Very well let's ground this debate, shall we. Can you provide us with an instance in which a story based progression system was able to exist without mechanics supporting it? And, was that system far more meaningful than a DnD/Pathfinder based system?