Arcanum Arcanum's difficulty

[ItsChon]

Arcanum isn't a combatfag game, it's not intended to be measured as such.

How does a game having passable combat equate to it being a combatfag game? As has been stated before, PS:T is the epitome of a "storyfag" game, and even then, it's combat is far less offensive than Arcanum's. I hate these excuses we fucking make. Each element of a game lies on a spectrum, where one end means the game did an excellent job at executing said element, while the other means the game did an absolutely shit job at it. The combat in Arcanum is very close if not completely towards the shit end of the spectrum, while other games who are heralded not for the combat but for story elements (KotOR and PS:T immediately come to mind), are far closer towards the middle.

 

[Average Manatee]

How does a game having passable combat equate to it being a combatfag game?

Underrail is ~80% combat while Arcanum is ~30%. One is clearly more combatfaggy.

As has been stated before, PS:T is the epitome of a "storyfag" game, and even then, it's combat is far less offensive than Arcanum's. I hate these excuses we fucking make. Each element of a game lies on a spectrum, where one end means the game did an excellent job at executing said element, while the other means the game did an absolutely shit job at it. The combat in Arcanum is very close if not completely towards the shit end of the spectrum, while other games who are heralded not for the combat but for story elements (KotOR and PS:T immediately come to mind), are far closer towards the middle.

You're shit and your opinions are shit.

KOTOR and PS:T simplify combat down to the point of ridiculousness. There is almost zero build choices in either of them and combat in both is so mindnumbingly easy that it might as well not exist. Arcanum at least has interesting build choices for all of the various character archetypes and (most) of the stuff that trivialize combat are obtained by actually exploring and interacting with the world rather than trivializing combat from the get-go.

Arcanum is much more comparable with Fallout as far as its combat is concerned, except that Fallout had essentially only two combat builds (melee and ranged) while Arcanum also has the tech/magic choice. Furthermore in Fallout 1 melee wasn't even really viable unless you broke intended game progression to get the gloves/sledgehammer early.

 

[ItsChon]

Underrail is ~80% combat while Arcanum is ~30%. One is clearly more combatfaggy.

Nice strawman. I was not making the claim that Underrail isn't more of a combatfag game than Arcanum, I was responding to this.

Arcanum isn't a combatfag game, it's not intended to be measured as such.

Whether or not a game is filled with combat or not has no bearing on whether or not it's balanced.

KOTOR and PS:T simplify combat down to the point of ridiculousness. There is almost zero build choices in either of them and combat in both is so mindnumbingly easy that it might as well not exist.

Sounds a lot like Arcanum lmao. The fact that anyone can call Arcanum's combat anything BUT mindnumbingly easy is indicative of their low IQ. This whole thread is devoted to the easy combat of Arcanum. So your entire point is basically about build diversity.

Arcanum at least has interesting build choices for all of the various character archetypes and (most) of the stuff that trivialize combat are obtained by actually exploring and interacting with the world rather than trivializing combat from the get-go.

There is almost zero build choices in either of them

Who gives a flying fuck about the amount of build choices when the combat is absolute SHIT. Regardless of how easy KotOR and PS:T are, the combat is not nearly as mechanically poor as Arcanum's ridiculously slow TB mode and absolute shit show that is RT mode. I'll take the combat system in PS:T over Arcanum's combat any day of the week, and the game would be far better if this were the case.

Arcanum is much more comparable with Fallout as far as its combat is concerned, except that Fallout had essentially only two combat builds (melee and ranged) while Arcanum also has the tech/magic choice. Furthermore in Fallout 1 melee wasn't even really viable unless you broke intended game progression to get the gloves/sledgehammer early.

And we end with this non sequitur. We're not discussing FO and/or what type of combat Arcanum can be compared to. My entire point is that Arcanum is not balanced, and the combat takes away from the game in a significant way. You've yet to dispute this.

 

[Average Manatee]

Underrail is ~80% combat while Arcanum is ~30%. One is clearly more combatfaggy.

Nice strawman. I was not making the claim that Underrail isn't more of a combatfag game than Arcanum, I was responding to this.

Arcanum isn't a combatfag game, it's not intended to be measured as such.

Whether or not a game is filled with combat or not has no bearing on whether or not it's balanced.

Listen here you retarded, chain quoting, "lmao" posting shithead. I don't give a flying fuck what claim you thought you made in your head. You are comparing two entirely different games. Underrail is in no way like Arcanum. You might as well compare Arcanum to Diablo. Neither have you substantiated any specific claim against Arcanum's balance.

KOTOR and PS:T simplify combat down to the point of ridiculousness. There is almost zero build choices in either of them and combat in both is so mindnumbingly easy that it might as well not exist.

Sounds a lot like Arcanum lmao. The fact that anyone can call Arcanum's combat anything BUT mindnumbingly easy is indicative of their low IQ. This whole thread is devoted to the easy combat of Arcanum. So your entire point is basically about build diversity.

Yes, it requires actually putting a small amount of effort into understanding the mechanics and systems to succeed in Arcanum. This is noteworthy for an RPG these days. I'm sure actual low-IQ cretins like yourself simply looked at a guide that said "pick harm and spam it", but for people playing the game as intended and experimenting with the systems most of them are fairly well balanced.

Arcanum at least has interesting build choices for all of the various character archetypes and (most) of the stuff that trivialize combat are obtained by actually exploring and interacting with the world rather than trivializing combat from the get-go.

There is almost zero build choices in either of them

Who gives a flying fuck about the amount of build choices when the combat is absolute SHIT. Regardless of how easy KotOR and PS:T are, the combat is not nearly as mechanically poor as Arcanum's ridiculously slow TB mode and absolute shit show that is RT mode. I'll take the combat system in PS:T over Arcanum's combat any day of the week, and the game would be far better if this were the case.

I'm sorry, you were just talking about balance you idiot. Are you not able to stay on a single point for more than two lines? But for your information Arcanum literally has a fast turn based mode which is way quicker than popping open a beer while waiting for KOTOR to execute its rounds. Mechanically poor? Let's be honest here, KOTOR and PS:T literally don't have combat mechanics beyond "max strength to hit things harder", they have nowhere near the itemization that Arcanum has.

Arcanum is much more comparable with Fallout as far as its combat is concerned, except that Fallout had essentially only two combat builds (melee and ranged) while Arcanum also has the tech/magic choice. Furthermore in Fallout 1 melee wasn't even really viable unless you broke intended game progression to get the gloves/sledgehammer early.

And we end with this non sequitur. We're not discussing FO and/or what type of combat Arcanum can be compared to. My entire point is that Arcanum is not balanced, and the combat takes away from the game in a significant way. You've yet to dispute this.

You were just comparing Arcanum combat to KOTOR and PS:T. You haven't said a single thing about balance. What the fuck are you even posting? Shut the fuck up with your incoherent rambling. I'm not here to dispute your points that don't exist.

 

[Alphons]

Underrail is ~80% combat while Arcanum is ~30%. One is clearly more combatfaggy.

During my last Underrail playthrough I fought less than in any of my Arcanum playthroughs.

I'd agree about the Expedition with it's native attacks/ pirate raids and old ruins filled with things wanting to kill you, but the base game is filled with opportunities to avoid combat, both during the quests and exploring.

The only quests where you are really forced to fight are the Arena, the Beast in Forge, killing Balor (can be assasinated), final Black Eel quest, Gorsky's final quest, second and third main Protectorate/ Free Drones quests, Core City warehouse shootout and the end of Deep Caverns.
Every other fight can be avoided with at least one of these:
stealth/ stealing, persuasion/ intimidation, hacking/ lockpicking, money or disguise/ security pass.

 

[Average Manatee]

Underrail is ~80% combat while Arcanum is ~30%. One is clearly more combatfaggy.

During my last Underrail playthrough I fought less than in any of my Arcanum playthroughs.

I'd agree about the Expedition with it's native attacks/ pirate raids and old ruins filled with things wanting to kill you, but the base game is filled with opportunities to avoid combat, both during the quests and exploring.

The only quests where you are really forced to fight are the Arena, the Beast in Forge, killing Balor (can be assasinated), final Black Eel quest, Gorsky's final quest, second and third main Protectorate/ Free Drones quests, Core City warehouse shootout and the end of Deep Caverns.
Every other fight can be avoided with at least one of these:
stealth/ stealing, persuasion/ intimidation, hacking/ lockpicking, money or disguise/ security pass.

Stealthing past or avoiding combat is still just another solution to combat. The point is that the vast majority of Underrail's content is in combat encounters while Arcanum's is heavily non-combat. Otherwise we might as well say that IWD is a non-combat game because you can just stealth or run past all 150 areas of combat encounters.

 

[Alphons]

Underrail is ~80% combat while Arcanum is ~30%. One is clearly more combatfaggy.

During my last Underrail playthrough I fought less than in any of my Arcanum playthroughs.

I'd agree about the Expedition with it's native attacks/ pirate raids and old ruins filled with things wanting to kill you, but the base game is filled with opportunities to avoid combat, both during the quests and exploring.

The only quests where you are really forced to fight are the Arena, the Beast in Forge, killing Balor (can be assasinated), final Black Eel quest, Gorsky's final quest, second and third main Protectorate/ Free Drones quests, Core City warehouse shootout and the end of Deep Caverns.
Every other fight can be avoided with at least one of these:
stealth/ stealing, persuasion/ intimidation, hacking/ lockpicking, money or disguise/ security pass.

Stealthing past or avoiding combat is still just another solution to combat. The point is that the vast majority of Underrail's content is in combat encounters while Arcanum's is heavily non-combat. Otherwise we might as well say that IWD is a non-combat game because you can just stealth or run past all 150 areas of combat encounters.

Ok, if we cross out stealth we can add tutorial missions, Junkyard Depot, the Mall and Burrower infestation and majority of the encounters during the exploration. I'd say it's still pretty small amount when compared to the amount of non-combat encounters. Definitely not 80%.

What exactly do you mean by "avoiding combat is just another solution to combat"? Running by hostile enemy or using skills like persuasion to avoid fight?
Because if the latter then Arcanum is definitely not a game with 30% combat.

 

[Kz3r0]

Arcanum sacrifice combat to roleplaying, you can make beautiful characters that are total socialites and are in dire need of bodyguards, you know, like in real life, or you can become an harbinger of doom as you see fit, without mentioning the dumb character builds, in fact in Arcanum you can role play combat or metagame if you like, minmaxers should stop whining.

 

[ItsChon]

Listen here you retarded, chain quoting, "lmao" posting shithead. I don't give a flying fuck what claim you thought you made in your head.

Hahaha, get more mad retard. And I didn't make the claim in my head, I wrote it in plain English a couple posts up. Maybe I should use smaller words so you can understand?

Listen here you retarded, chain quoting, "lmao" posting shithead. I don't give a flying fuck what claim you thought you made in your head. You are comparing two entirely different games. Underrail is in no way like Arcanum. You might as well compare Arcanum to Diablo. Neither have you substantiated any specific claim against Arcanum's balance.

You're a fucking idiot. I wasn't comparing Arcanum to Underrail, I was citing Underrail as an example of a game with good balance. Learn to read.

Yes, it requires actually putting a small amount of effort into understanding the mechanics and systems to succeed in Arcanum. This is noteworthy for an RPG these days. I'm sure actual low-IQ cretins like yourself simply looked at a guide that said "pick harm and spam it", but for people playing the game as intended and experimenting with the systems most of them are fairly well balanced.

We have three pages of people talking about how Arcanum is an easy mode game, and you're going to sit here and tell me that the game is balanced? If I'm so low IQ how is it that I was able to jump into the game and find it absolutely trivial regardless of what build I went with? Your arguments make no fucking sense.

I'm sorry, you were just talking about balance you idiot. Are you not able to stay on a single point for more than two lines? But for your information Arcanum literally has a fast turn based mode which is way quicker than popping open a beer while waiting for KOTOR to execute its rounds.

You didn't respond to my point regarding Arcanum's absolutely dogshit RT mode, probably because you know it's true, and as for Arcanum's fast turn based mode, doesn't change the fact that the combat is absolute trash.

Let's be honest here, KOTOR and PS:T literally don't have combat mechanics beyond "max strength to hit things harder", they have nowhere near the itemization that Arcanum has.

PS:T is an Infinity Engine game and uses the same THACO and AC system as IWD and BG series, a system that is far better than Arcanum's. What the fuck are you blathering on about? As for KotOR, it's a third person RPG. Its combat is inoffensive, and entertaining in a popamole way, no where near as painful as Arcanum's combat is to play through.

You were just comparing Arcanum combat to KOTOR and PS:T. You haven't said a single thing about balance. What the fuck are you even posting? Shut the fuck up with your incoherent rambling. I'm not here to dispute your points that don't exist.

My entire point is that Arcanum is not balanced, and the combat takes away from the game in a significant way. You've yet to dispute this.

Me citing Underrail as an example of a balanced game where builds require specialized skill point distribution and planning to work was me talking about balance, and me citing PS:T and KotOR as examples of storyfag games who don't focus on combat but still manage to have systems that don't take away form one's enjoyment of the game is where I talked about Arcanum's combat taking away from the game as a whole.

English must be your third language, because you're clearly too stupid to carry on a conversation. Learn what words mean and then come back to me.

 

[ItsChon]

What exactly do you mean by "avoiding combat is just another solution to combat"? Running by hostile enemy or using skills like persuasion to avoid fight?
Because if the latter then Arcanum is definitely not a game with 30% combat.

I didn't bother to check him on this because he was too stupid to understand what I was saying, but this is also plain wrong. The distribution is far closer to 60% combat 40% everything else in Underrail, which is very similar to that of Arcanum's distribution. People that call Underrail a "combatfag" game are almost certainly surefire retards, because they completely overlook the great quest design, world and character building, as well as crafting system that make the game so great.

 

[jackofshadows]

As for KotOR, it's a third person RPG. Its combat is inoffensive, and entertaining in a popamole way, no where near as painful as Arcanum's combat is to play through.

What's so painful about Arcanum's combat? Any viable build (brain dead melee included) letting you breeze through the game, you can skip it via stealth almost entirely or you can hire a few ogres who punch all the mobs for you. And all of this in context comparing game with Underrail? Which is far more difficult game overall/unforgiving build wise imo and I saw a lot of complains from other players about how hard and painful game is due to it's combat. I'm so confused.

 

[Bruma Hobo]

Stealthing past or avoiding combat is still just another solution to combat.

IS IT IMPOSSIBLE TO TOTALLY AVOID COMBAT IN UNDERRAIL!

 

[Average Manatee]

You're a fucking idiot. I wasn't comparing Arcanum to Underrail, I was citing Underrail as an example of a game with good balance. Learn to read.

Which necessarily invokes a comparison, dumbfuck.

Yes, it requires actually putting a small amount of effort into understanding the mechanics and systems to succeed in Arcanum. This is noteworthy for an RPG these days. I'm sure actual low-IQ cretins like yourself simply looked at a guide that said "pick harm and spam it", but for people playing the game as intended and experimenting with the systems most of them are fairly well balanced.

We have three pages of people talking about how Arcanum is an easy mode game, and you're going to sit here and tell me that the game is balanced? If I'm so low IQ how is it that I was able to jump into the game and find it absolutely trivial regardless of what build I went with? Your arguments make no fucking sense.

RPGs are not player skill driven games. Literally every RPG is easy if you have the "right build". Underrail is trivially easy if you have a good build. Balance wrt builds in RPGs is about whether builds enable unique ways to play the game, which it does in Arcanum (admittedly Underrail also does an excellent job of this).

Arcanum is almost an entirely open, non-level-gated game in terms of builds. The only level gating is the higher level spells which max out at level 15 out of 50. This is in stark contrast to a heavily level gated game like Underrail or Fallout or completely level gated games like the D&D-based games in which all of the good perks and abilities are locked behind high level requirements. Instead the system in Arcanum is explicitly designed to allow players to heavily specialize in what they want to do very early, and the reason I see for this is that a specialized character makes for an interesting character. Obviously if you read a guide online that say to commit 100% to a specific overpowered spell that you would otherwise not know about it becomes easy, but this is not substantially different from any other RPG. This is, however, not how most RPGs are meant to be played. If you actually go into the game blind, and do not level grind, the game can be fairly difficult.

I'm sorry, you were just talking about balance you idiot. Are you not able to stay on a single point for more than two lines? But for your information Arcanum literally has a fast turn based mode which is way quicker than popping open a beer while waiting for KOTOR to execute its rounds.

You didn't respond to my point regarding Arcanum's absolutely dogshit RT mode, probably because you know it's true, and as for Arcanum's fast turn based mode, doesn't change the fact that the combat is absolute trash.

Let's be honest here, KOTOR and PS:T literally don't have combat mechanics beyond "max strength to hit things harder", they have nowhere near the itemization that Arcanum has.

PS:T is an Infinity Engine game and uses the same THACO and AC system as IWD and BG series, a system that is far better than Arcanum's. What the fuck are you blathering on about? As for KotOR, it's a third person RPG. Its combat is inoffensive, and entertaining in a popamole way, no where near as painful as Arcanum's combat is to play through.

No one gives a fuck about your points to begin with. Saying that RT in Arcanum is bad isn't a "point", everyone knows its only there as a way to make combat even faster. This is something that an idiot like you should appreciate since it makes easy, trivial combat less offensive. You haven't substantiated anything relating to Arcanum's combat being "trash".

THAC0 and AC are not substantially different from chance to hit and AC in Arcanum. This is not "better". PS:T lacks interesting itemization. The reason PS:T has shit combat is because there is a low variety of interesting builds and ways to itemize characters, which is something that games like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Arcanum do better.

Substantiate how KOTOR somehow has entertaining combat while Arcanum's is painful. These are not objective criteria to evaluate games by, these reflect your subjective existence of being a newfag who is impressed by shiny lights.