MMOs died out?

[KeighnMcDeath]

Isn't there a black desert MMO as well? WTF is this fascinating shit with deserts? These people ever been in one? It ain't fun and fascinating; it sucks … literally the fucking life out of you and moisture and BLECK! Next, White desert online. Play in the frozen deserts of PolarBaria.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The vast majority of MMOs can't even beat old school WoW, and that includes retail WoW itself.

The genre may be dying for many different reasons but surely the fact every WoW "killer" out there fell flat on its face probably has something to do with people slowly stopping giving a shit.

If you liked WoW classic, and wanted to try something new, where do you go? Everything out there is a pile of shit.

 

[Divine Blessing]

extinction
/ɪkˈstɪŋ(k)ʃ(ə)n,ɛkˈstɪŋ(k)ʃ(ə)n/

noun
noun: extinction; plural noun: extinctions
1.
the state or process of being or becoming extinct.


https://www.nerdmuch.com/games/5184/new-mmos/

https://www.mmorpg.com/games-list

but hey, iam already bored with 8.3 too

/edit: to rephrase: not the genre is dying, but u r

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Some still hope for this Phantasy Star Online 2. I honestly thought it was an offline thing only saying it was online. Can you believe the last monster console I owned from a thrift shop was a genesis 32x CD? Didn't go online with that either. I had a game gear too from that package. Oh, wannabe Pawnshops, the deals you can get. (if 3 power packs is a deal).

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Apparently, I am out of touch of terminology.

PvP = player vs player
PvE = player vs enemy (monsters/mobs)
PvD = player vs developer??? Like vs a DM/GM?

 

[Farewell into the night]

Apparently, I am out of touch of terminology.

PvP = player vs player
PvE = player vs enemy (monsters/mobs)
PvD = player vs developer??? Like vs a DM/GM?
PvO = player vs ?

 

[eXalted]

This is a pretty good video of how WoW killed WoW.

 

[Azdul]

New shit is survival/building games

Old MMOs offered cutthroat competitive experience and allowed players to change the game world.

Nowadays mainstream MMOs are so safe, inoffensive, static and bland that even playing Minecraft seems like adrenaline-pumping hardcore adventure.​

I personally blame Tom Chilton for it. He was Ultima Online designer from Third Dawn to Age of Shadows, and World of Warcraft designer from Wrath of the Lich King to Warlords of Draneor. He invented the idea that everyone is a winner and MMOs should be about collecting purplez.

 

[J1M]

The root of all evil in gaming is horse armor. Cosmetic DLC paved the way for microtransactions of all kinds.

When players know that the best rewards are received for spending $5 rather than performing in-game triumphs, the most important core drive to play is invalidated.

At this point WoW even treats its subscription as a microtransaction. They design patches where logging in is all it takes to invalidate and replace your equipment, and further progress is primarily a function of weeks played paid.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The root of all evil in gaming is horse armor. Cosmetic DLC paved the way for microtransactions of all kinds.

When players know that the best rewards are received for spending $5 rather than performing in-game triumphs, the most important core drive to play is invalidated.

At this point WoW even treats its subscription as a microtransaction. They design patches where logging in is all it takes to invalidate and replace your equipment, and further progress is primarily a function of weeks played paid.

To be fair what alternatives are there? You can't make tactically/strategically difficult content with video guides of exactly how to play. So that leaves content that is difficult because it's twitchy, which cuts off most of your userbase and exacerbates any lag in the game, content that is grindy, which is just boring shit, and just giving everyone everything on day one, which means nobody has a reason to keep playing. And to be fair, most games, WoW included, have all these other types of content as well. Most people just don't want fancy gear badly enough to spend 5 days pissing in a bottle while farming crafting materials when they can get equivalent shit by playing 30 minutes a day for 5 weeks.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I was going through an old magazine and saw Rubies of Eventide. Lordy.... you can still download the program I guess but there are no servers.

 

[J1M]

The root of all evil in gaming is horse armor. Cosmetic DLC paved the way for microtransactions of all kinds.

When players know that the best rewards are received for spending $5 rather than performing in-game triumphs, the most important core drive to play is invalidated.

At this point WoW even treats its subscription as a microtransaction. They design patches where logging in is all it takes to invalidate and replace your equipment, and further progress is primarily a function of weeks played paid.

To be fair what alternatives are there? You can't make tactically/strategically difficult content with video guides of exactly how to play. So that leaves content that is difficult because it's twitchy, which cuts off most of your userbase and exacerbates any lag in the game, content that is grindy, which is just boring shit, and just giving everyone everything on day one, which means nobody has a reason to keep playing. And to be fair, most games, WoW included, have all these other types of content as well. Most people just don't want fancy gear badly enough to spend 5 days pissing in a bottle while farming crafting materials when they can get equivalent shit by playing 30 minutes a day for 5 weeks.

Well, if the store mounts weren't several times more visually appealing than anything earned, that would be a motivator.

Invalidating all progress with each patch is also a mistake. Players are trained to expect this now and it modifies behavior.

It is possible to make raid encounters that require people to think on their feet. For example, a boss that gets 3 random properties each phase out of a pool of 20. (Randomized each pull, not each week.)

The biggest failure of wow as a long term product is that raiding was the primary end game activity of every expansion. They should be trying to create new end game content modes that reward the best gear each expansion, and cycling out modes that players dislike.

For example, the best gear in TBC could have come from Arenas. The best gear should have come from mythic dungeons in the expansion that introduced that. Ditto for mage tower/Chromie instance. Maybe don't place pet battles on that pedestal, but you get the point.

Warfronts as a concept had immense potential, but instead of creating a new premiere mode to challenge groups of players they made a cutscene you have to stand in and press buttons.

They are in maintenance mode playing it safe. The warfronts design and lack of a new class for Shadowlands makes this plain for all to see.

EDIT: If I was designing wow, I would announce the introduction of a 4th combat role to shake up the moment-to-moment gameplay. Probably some kind of non-healing support role. Something that highly rewarded players for working together with a high skill cap.

 

[Damned Registrations]

EDIT: If I was designing wow, I would announce the introduction of a 4th combat role to shake up the moment-to-moment gameplay. Probably some kind of non-healing support role. Something that highly rewarded players for working together with a high skill cap.

That role would be control. However, retarded players avoided using those tools even when they gave them to fucking everyone because it's inherently slower than using other roles. I suppose you could also have some sort of force multiplier role based around buffs/debuffs, but it's enough of a pain in the ass getting healers and tanks into a random group, and they at least have the advantage of not being totally redundant if you have an extra.

 

[Norfleet]

A 4th combat role, like, say, being the big metal hand in the sky that clicks on people and tells them what to do?

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Is WOW just moving and clicking a series of skill buttons and using items (oh what the hell do that call that combat). It's not like say where you have action and must actually target and hit them by making your blade connect or arrow hit the mark. WoW once locked on its relatively an automatic hit? I guess there are MMOs that are first/3rd person like Mortal Kombat in ways. I'm terrible with terminology so someone school me if they will.

 

[DarKPenguiN]

The root of all evil in gaming is horse armor. Cosmetic DLC paved the way for microtransactions of all kinds.

When players know that the best rewards are received for spending $5 rather than performing in-game triumphs, the most important core drive to play is invalidated.

At this point WoW even treats its subscription as a microtransaction. They design patches where logging in is all it takes to invalidate and replace your equipment, and further progress is primarily a function of weeks played paid.

To be fair what alternatives are there? You can't make tactically/strategically difficult content with video guides of exactly how to play. So that leaves content that is difficult because it's twitchy, which cuts off most of your userbase and exacerbates any lag in the game, content that is grindy, which is just boring shit, and just giving everyone everything on day one, which means nobody has a reason to keep playing. And to be fair, most games, WoW included, have all these other types of content as well. Most people just don't want fancy gear badly enough to spend 5 days pissing in a bottle while farming crafting materials when they can get equivalent shit by playing 30 minutes a day for 5 weeks.

I'll spend 5 days pissing in a bottle for free. The gear is just a bonus.

 

[Norfleet]

That role would be control. However, retarded players avoided using those tools even when they gave them to fucking everyone because it's inherently slower than using other roles.

Counterargument: Is it the players who are retarded for not using an option that is clearly slower and therefore worse than the other options, or the developers for wasting development time and budget on something that they proceeded to make useless?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

EDIT: If I was designing wow, I would announce the introduction of a 4th combat role to shake up the moment-to-moment gameplay. Probably some kind of non-healing support role.

literally enhancement shamans, shadow priests, ret paladins(lol), feral/balance druids
that is, before they decided support roles shouldn't exist and just made them regular DPS specs — most of them never actually being quite as good as the real DPS specs.

 

[Damned Registrations]

That role would be control. However, retarded players avoided using those tools even when they gave them to fucking everyone because it's inherently slower than using other roles.

Counterargument: Is it the players who are retarded for not using an option that is clearly slower and therefore worse than the other options, or the developers for wasting development time and budget on something that they proceeded to make useless?

It's only slower once you've completely overgeared the area though. Ideally, with a skilled party, you'd go into an area you're 'not' geared for, murder the shit by playing flawlessly (including using stuff like sap and sleep where applicable) and skip a huge amount of grinding. Instead, everyone is expected to grind until they can faceroll their way through because knowing how to play a game is for losers and cool people can't be bothered.

 

[Norfleet]

Isn't there a black desert MMO as well? WTF is this fascinating shit with deserts? These people ever been in one? It ain't fun and fascinating; it sucks … literally the fucking life out of you and moisture and BLECK! Next, White desert online. Play in the frozen deserts of PolarBaria.

Deserts are low-poly. Vegetation is high-poly, and a field of bare rocks and sand is easier to render and sculpt than putting in a bunch of trees, grass, and whatnot.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Well, they could go the all TRON-like route.

 

[Cirtdear]

They did seem to get worse as time went on. Although many of the original MMOs were shit with some good presentations, or shit presentations with good gameplay.
There's a generation of MMOs somewhere that failed to improve upon the last generation when it was needed. Many were about tradeoffs or X but with Y variants.

A genre that cannot be competed with by indies is doomed to be a bubble.

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

Not sure why, but to be sure, they are dead. At least, compared to the glory days.

 

[ZeniBot]

A genre that cannot be competed with by indies is doomed to be a bubble.

I've actually had more fun with the fan projects of reviving dead MMOs, the ones that are feature complete have been enjoyable. I wouldn't bother with most of the Indie shit because one things indies are terrible at are services. They don't have the capital required to pull off the games they're trying to make work (this is where I see Star Citizen falling on its ass too because most of their capital has been spent on development costs and NOT running costs for the services).

The business model is also massively flawed because subscriptions have been proven to not really work long term and item shops are scummy.
This is primarily why I think the genre is dead because they don't have a business model that is viable to make work with both a product and a service.
Its why I see all this cloud gaming shit falling into a big pile of shit at the end of this for the same reason.

I'd say its more preferable to make something similar to say Mount and Blades CRPG mod where you can just have dedicated small popup worlds of 200 players and run it for free, the cost being the software. This would be more ideal. If you have a big server fine, but its BYO server. The ARMA community similarly thrived on this concept with City Life/Altis Life highly recommend checking it out if you haven't, it puts GTA Online to shame.

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

Micro-scale MMO is what I'd call the future. 50-200 players.
I agree that less is more for multiple reasons. Lag, QOS, a better curated experience, a tailored experience, small communities, etc. Wide scale MMO's arguably aren't even fun.

Star Citizen was always DOA. I'm not sure if it will ever be considered playable - however this doesn't seem to deter the majority of fans who are completely blind and deaf to its repeated failings.
I'm also looking at Dual Universe - which is totally doomed to failure. They completely misunderstood the problem of large scale MMO's. Their tech is laughable and solves nothing. Their NDA is suspicious and borderline scammy.

I think RUST is actually a decent tech - it works pretty well from a technical point of view, but I wish there was a medieval equivalent, like Reign of Kings, that could be taken a bit further than they did.