Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

The Surge 2

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,074
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
Yeah, winged Eli is one of the bosses that are much harder without parrying. I played the game very differently, mostly fast weps like claws or swords.

Eli's sword is the best heavy weapon in the game, I was using it in my NG+ run all the time.

I loved the complexity of the level design btw. A few shortcuts might be pointless and over-indulgent but overall it's grate.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
And I've beaten him. Spin2Win was very helpful in beating him without parrying. Its not like I could stunlock him with stronger vertical slams.
Must have missed some armor piece, as I got the regular sword :(

Still its nice. A Heavy Duty with good stats and spear-like reach! Neat...
But I don't plan to do NG+. Basically never do. So I guess that's it... Was fun. Guess best action game I've played this year.
 

cruel

Cipher
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
856
I got this on current Steam sale. Played for 45 min or so for now. Combat is very good, no doubt about that, but everything else... Am I wrong, or the only thing this game has to offer is good combat and level design, while everything else is bad or mediocre? Story seems generic, characters feel fake, music is bad, not much atmosphere. Is it getting better the more you play, or what I see in the first 1h is what I will get?
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,074
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
I got this on current Steam sale. Played for 45 min or so for now. Combat is very good, no doubt about that, but everything else... Am I wrong, or the only thing this game has to offer is good combat and level design, while everything else is bad or mediocre? Story seems generic, characters feel fake, music is bad, not much atmosphere. Is it getting better the more you play, or what I see in the first 1h is what I will get?

Did you love Dark Souls story and characters?

Surge 2 has good combat, great level design, great bosses and solid-ish itemization. If bad story and music puts you off despite all this then no, this game is not for you.
 

cruel

Cipher
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
856
OK, that's good enough. For some reason I thought that bosses are shit. Good combat + level design + exploration + bosses should be enough to keep me playing, will try more. Thanks.
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,809
Bought it on current steam sale too, after playing for a bit got to the Gideon's rock. Using staff and operator set.

Good:
- directional blocking is a great new addition;
- digging the whole metroidvania feel with force hooks and lifting hooks. First game had emp drone too, but the game was way more linear;
- i'm glad that devs have sticked to the "no trash mobs" rule - every random schmuck can kill you if you're not careful;
- really liked overhauled implants system. No more trash implants like "+ to HP" or "+ to stamina", this time they are more akin to fallout perks/traits with very build-specific advantages and disadvantages;

OK:
- attribute systems. As of right now the best thing to do is to distribute core points evenly, since HP, stamina and battery have equal importance. Well, it's better than having dozens of trash implants i guess;
- combat. Directional blocking aside it's basically same, with same issues like bad camera (fat johnny fight was a nightmare because of that) and crude hitboxes;
- drone. I mean i like how the drone was improved, but it's still weird that you can't use firearms or throwables, and instead forced to use a drone. Would've preferred the game to have a specific "consumable" slot where you can put a spray can, banners, molotov cocktails, mines, turrets, etc. Tying them to a drone feels unintuitive;
- bloodbornian trick weapons - i've found them wonky to use;
- first game had only 5 levels of upgrades (on NG). This time there are 10 levels and it makes crafting new gear a chore, because you need all parts for every of those 10 levels. You can downgrade high-level parts, but it's still a chore;

Bad:
- shit interface wasn't fixed - you have to travel through multiple menus to see equipment stats and such, inventory grid is 5x5 despite the fact that there are 4 pieces of equipment, weapon/armor/implant icons are too colorful and uninformative;
- cycling between body parts became iffy for some reason. Never had this problem in the first game, but in Surge 2 i constantly chop a wrong part;
- i'm all for expanded and more varied locations, but adding hubs with tons of NPCs wasn't a great idea. The writing is mediocre to bad, and it kinda ruins the whole experience when you hear fallout 4 level dialogues after arriving to a local bar. There's an apocalypse is about to happen and the world is in ruins, but those morons only care about superfluous crap and ask you to bring them flowers or repay their debt.

How far am i into the game?
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,809
Received a lifter hook and unlocked a fast travel, i assume i'm ~70% done with NG. Overall I liked the game, but there is one issue - game is easy as fuck. Way easier than the first game.

I looked up achievements and decided to do the "kill a boss while having 30k scrap" on Ezra - he died too quickly and i've forgot to pop scrap consumables. "Kill a delver echo alpha with delver helix" - sucker died in just a couple of combos and i've forgot to equip aforementioned helix. Same with regular mobs - they were alright at first, but now most of them are trash. Remember flamethrower guys from the first game? Or staff-wielding cops who can combo you from full health to zero in an instant? Even tripedal robots are a cakewalk now.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,074
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
Yep, mid-game on it's p. easy. Then again Surge 1 was kindda an exception. All FromSoft games eventually became easy af. I've just finished my first Nioh playthrough and I just steamrolled the second half of the game.

I guess the same thing is true for most RPGs ever too.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Playing Surge 2 and the Christmas sale (5 EUR) lead me to try part 1. Well it's certainly more rough and less. .. balanced. Far less enemy and weapon variety. Less interesting elemental damage mechanics. No partial set bonuses.
But then again I feel the gear choices are more impactfull, with actual trade offs involved. Weapons have more varied stats, with very different slash/thrust/bludge/elemental ratings. Dedication/specialization is rewarded with Proficiency bonuses.

You can no longer be good at everything.
There are less upgrade steps, less implant slots. You don't gain health, stamina and energy just from leveling.
Far less stat bloat in general. Kinda feel the streamlining/MMO influences in part 2.

It also feels more brutal. And while the area design is brilliant, I'm not traversing the same areas all the time.

I generally like it a lot.
 
Last edited:

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,164
Yep, mid-game on it's p. easy. Then again Surge 1 was kindda an exception. All FromSoft games eventually became easy af. I've just finished my first Nioh playthrough and I just steamrolled the second half of the game.

I guess the same thing is true for most RPGs ever too.

I don't know about the others but the problem with Dark Souls is that at some point the game branches out in different directions which you are free to pick and chose as you want, but once you clear one area the next one becomes easier because they are all balanced for the same level. This is a game where level scaling might have actually helped.
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,809
pCHODXI.jpg

DMlbKog.png


qzLe7pU.png


Literally unplayable.
 

Nortar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Sep 5, 2017
Messages
1,407
Pathfinder: Wrath

DMlbKog.png


qzLe7pU.png


Literally unplayable.


Oh, the lengths the games have to go to declare their allegiances nowadays.

It's clear this is not the sharpest ax in drawer.
But what's important, that it identifies itself as a hammer.
And society enforced stereotypes about sharpness don't make it any less blunt then it already is!
:lol:
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,809
I've finished the game - took me about 30 hours, died 74 times (died the most to Little Johnny, 7 times). Was using staff at first and punching gloves later, and wearing 3 parts Nano ward + 3 parts Iron Maus sets. Implants for directional blocking.

Overall it's a definite step up from the the first Surge, but there is still a room for improvement.

Metroidvania elements are barely noticeable since the game is still quite linear - there are only 2 or 3 places you had to revisit in order to utilize your newly acquired Starfish drone module, force hook and lifter hooks are used for shortcuts for the most parts, and ability to break nanite barriers was used to limit your progression. I would've liked non-linearity to be expanded in a possible sequel - sequence breaking, hidden loot, opportunity to skip certain bosses or fight them in a different order. I understand that the game is linear because balancing a proper difficulty curve is hard, and having a lot of backtracking in a game with lengthy loading screens will be frustrating for players, but still. Dark Souls had a big non-linear interconnected world without loading screens and without locking upgrade materials behind enemy gear, so it's possible.

Unlike other posters, i wasn't a big fan of level design. It felt appropriate for maps to be small, cramped and interconnected in a Surge 1 since it was just a facility, but Surge 2 is set in an open city and it feels kinda tacky. Every location loops back to OPS three or four times - combined with rather bland and sterile art it makes navigation a chore, especially on revisit. There are a lot of secrets, but 90% of the time you find a pile of scrap.

Both Surge games (and Lords of the Fallen) suffer from quantity over quality issue: there are too many weapons with barely any difference between them. This new hammer have 5% more damage and 5% less energy gain than that old hammer, wow, so different, much interesting, almost build-worthy. Instead of having so much garbage weapons, i'd rather cut a half of them, and make others more distinct - maybe add special bonuses (like set bonuses, except for just 1 weapon). For example, this hammer deals more damage to robots, but less to humans. Or that staff gives you more i-frames for directional blocking. Or those double-duty weapon heal you a little upon dealing a backstab. Another problem with weapons is that a little thought was put into designing movesets - animations are great, but in the end they barely matter except from rather primitive comboing or occasional need to do horizontal attacks instead of vertical (or vise versa) to cut someone's limb more efficiently. You can create a separate Axe weapon class from hammer animations without losing much.

Same with implants. I liked how devs reassigned HP/Stamina/Battery from implants to attributes, but there's more that can be done. Currently there are too many implants, and a lot of them are either useless (some health healed after performing a finishing sequence? if i'm low on health i'd rather use battery for actual healing injection instead of doing a finisher), or too sawyeristic in their effects (+5% damage to drone if fired continuously? +4% attack speed while 3 batteries are filled? It's fucking nothing). Weaker or less unique implant effects should be relegated to weapons/gear, repeated implants (like Ancillary core, Reclamation buddy and all elemental resistances) should be made upgradeable instead.

Halfway through the game I started to feel that my character doesn't progress. I already had an armor set and implants i was comfortable with, upping core-level gave me no benefits except for minuscule health/stamina/battery bonus. Imo, this problem can be solved by tying Core power and Implant slots into separate attributes (and maybe adding another attributes for drone damage?). Want to wear heavier armor - invest your level-up points into Core power, want to equip more implants - invest your level-up points into additional slots. You want to be a tank? Invest into Health and Core power. You want to build your character around injections? Invest into Battery and Implant slots.

Some of those problems stem from a small budget and dreaded technological limitations (c), so I hope they will be fixed in their next game (dunno whether it'll be The Surge 3, personally i hope for Venetica 2 - Electric boogaloo). Props to devs for having a proprietary engine in 2019 and not buying unreal.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I actually dislike the decision to reassign HP/Stamina/Battery from implants to attributes. The Surge 1 had actual meaningful trade offs (coupled with far less implant slots). In part 2 there is far more stat bloat and you can be great at everything.
Though low and fast deteriorating Energy in part 1 is a pain and I find myself barely using it outside finishers/passives.
However I love Aggression Amplifier heal on finisher! I want to do these finishers anyway, why not benefit from them? With 2 of those equipped, it's a nice chunk of health returned.

The weapons are undoubtedly much more varied in the Surge 2. Entire new categories were added. BUT the fewer upgrades in 1 felt more rewarding and planned.

And yeah, the map in Surge 2 is impressive, but for me kinda overstays its welcome. So far I like the Surge 1 levels more (now in 3rd area).
 

Achiman

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
810
Location
Australia
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
I'm up to the bit where you have to go fuck up the 'spark church'. The game feels like it's dragged on a bit tbh, but i think that is more to do with the backtracking and repetitive encounters than the core gameplay.
Overall it's an improvement over the first surge, every game they make they've improved on imo.
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,809
Another major thing i disliked about the game is that distancing doesn't matter - if you're trying to strike an enemy with a short weapon, you will automatically snap closer to him instead of missing a hit.
Managing a distance between you and your enemy would've added an entirely new strategic layer and helped differentiating short/long weapons.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,074
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
Why are ya'll so bothered by backtracking in a Souls-like? It's such an integral part of the formula, even since the ol' Castlevanias.

Agreed with Wunder on the other stuff tho. There's definitely gear bloat. I've been ranting for years this approach to itemization is wrong, ideally all aRPGs would do what Bloodborne did but alas. Plus the fact that some of the "special" boss weapons are actually worse than basic bitch variants is some Miyazaki-grade level of idiocy.

I gave them some feedback on the Discord, altho fanboys immediately got defensive claiming the bloat is great coz muh cosmetic choices. Fashion fags and character creation fags, disgusting creatures.

All in all tho it's one of the best games I've played all year. All Deck13's Souls-likes are great aRPGs and unfairly underappreciated in my book.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
3,640
Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
Playing this after Sekiro was like arm wrestling kindergartners. I felt like I had a million years to dodge or block.

-Used staff for much of the game, then switched to gloves when I got the General ACU V2.0. Damage was almost 2x everything else. I was sad that Single Rigged got such a big nerf from the first game.

Really, the damage stat on weapons is pretty useless, some weapons were consistently higher numbers (1handed, spears) yet did pitiful actual damage. Combos have their own modifiers that really need to be explained.

-Used VULTR gear for most of the game because of the scrap boost, had to switch once I got to the Spark place because the electrical guys were stun locking me.

-With Cerberus armor I could facetank Delver and Eli. Nano buildup was a bigger deal than raw damage. Heavy armor makes a huge difference and the stamina penalties were hardly noticeable.

Overall it was fun and held my attention, but felt too derivative and I won't likely bother replaying. Levels were a step too mazelike and combat too often repetitive. I think the soulsborne style is finally getting played out.
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
So far I like the Surge 1 levels more (now in 3rd area).
R&D?

Biolab. Got there after the 2nd train ride, so consider that the 3rd area.
Access to Operations seems a bit scarce now.. or perhaps more likely I've missed some shortcuts.

I really like that there is a feeling of scarcity and you scrape by, mix and match your gear, the upgrade materials are rare and difficult to come by (beyond MkI, that's plentiful).
That's like the opposite of Surge 2, where there is an overabundance of everything. Weapons, armor, and you keep upgrading stuff every few minutes.
 

cvv

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 30, 2013
Messages
18,074
Location
Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
Kraken finished, it was fine but also goddamn short. Even with me goofing around and getting all cheevos it was maybe 4 hours? Boss p. interesting but easy, like most of the game.
 

Markman

da Blitz master
Patron
Joined
Dec 31, 2002
Messages
3,737
Location
Sthlm, Swe
Serpent in the Staglands Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I started derping in this one after I saw it on sale and its managed to hold my interest for almost 20 hours now.

Just whooped Ezra who was way easier than I thought,killed him on second try, Delver was the thoughest one so far, must have died there atleast 15 times.

I got the PS4 version and it seems to be the worst one. Game looks like shit most of the time cause of high res textures not loading or loading very slowly. How they managed to fuck up this bad is beyond me. Played the first one also on PS4 for a few hours and it looked twice as good as this.

Gameplay wise its awesome, enjoying cutting limbs off and that tech scrap multiplier that amps up longer you play without reseting gets me in trouble all the time. Managed to lose +50k scrap several times. Still, very satisfying. Gets my seal of worth playing.
 

cruel

Cipher
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
856
Any tips for Little Johnny? I hate those kind of bosses, when proper targeting is half of the difficulty. If I could push some button to be done with him and continue, it would make me very happy. Same reason I never beat Nameless King in Dark Souls 3 (annoying first phase).

I'm core level 38, using upgraded MG Negotiator.

It's a good game besides that, but fuck this boss.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom