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SaGa Series Discussion

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
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Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
How the hell do you beat any of these fights? I go into the castle, dead in two rounds, Temple, dead in 2 rounds, Tower, dead in 3 rounds (with 2 more fights). WTFFFFFF. This is without any chance to level up or anything so this is just me dealing with what the game has given me. Holy hell, none of the saga games were ever this unforgiving.
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
4,930
Holy shit, it is gay as fucking balls that enemies get a free combo attack when you kill one. Jesus fuck what a stupid mechanic.

It depends on where they are in the in the initiative line-up. If the enemy you kill is surrounded by its fellows, they unite. You have to focus on the ones that aren't surrounded if you're going for the kill. And ideally, they will be isolated and surrounded by your own party members, so you can get a combo. Same goes for you, not just the enemies. It's not a stupid mechanic, you just need to learn how it works.

How the hell do you beat any of these fights? I go into the castle, dead in two rounds, Temple, dead in 2 rounds, Tower, dead in 3 rounds (with 2 more fights). WTFFFFFF. This is without any chance to level up or anything so this is just me dealing with what the game has given me. Holy hell, none of the saga games were ever this unforgiving.

Again, it sounds like you're approaching battles much like how you would in a classic SaGa game. Every battle normal difficulty and up has the intensity of a mini-boss or boss fight, and you need to utilize every trick you have. I'd suggest reading the ingame help book. There is a lot of useful information in there. As it stands now, it sounds like you're just continually banging your head against the wall. If you have a good grasp of the mechanics, it shouldn't be that difficult, particularly in the beginning.
 
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Grampy_Bone

Arcane
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Jan 25, 2016
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Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
I don't have any tricks, it's the beginning of the game. This should be tutorial zone, not every fight is a boss battle. It seems like this character is ultra hard on a first playthrough, need Techs to carry over. As of now I barely have any moves worth using, nothing is effective.

-There's no way for me to reliably disable or prevent a big attack. Interrupts don't actually prevent the attack they interrupt so they're no help. Everyone is super wimpy (even with one weapon upgrade for most of the team) I can't kill a single enemy in a turn.

-Burning down one guy to trigger a unite attack works but it's random, plus reducing enemy count barely helps because the rest just get more BP to spam their strongest moves

-Can't buy stronger weapons (need crystals)

-Can't recover LP, everyone is around 2-3

Unless there is one weapon type that can reliably knock out or prevent enemies from spamming poision mist every round or rain of arrows or whatever, these fights are just ridiculous. You can't tell me this temple fight with Urpina's mom is even possible.
 

Shackleton

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Dec 29, 2011
Messages
1,301
Location
Knackers Yard
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Don't you have Nessa with Mesmerize? She pretty much carried through me through Urpina's route on any fight that wasn't undead. The Scout role so she usually gets to go before the enemy, mezz most dangerous and win. I found I couldn't do 'Hard' fights in the beginning as Urpina, but everything else was possible using a combination of mezz and unite attacks.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
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Jan 19, 2014
Messages
13,512
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The tips section in the game can be very helpful. They might not tell you much when you play, but that actual section is very helpful.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,997
Location
Platypus Planet
The difficulty slider only affects how fast enemies will scale which isn't an issue once you understand how the system works. It wont help make the fights easier and it only will harm you for the final encounter as the final boss scales on a different metric. Slower scaling enemies = less stats = harder final boss. The extreme difficulty of the early game is just something you have to deal with. I thought beating the game once would help as I'd know more about the mechanics, but it didn't, much. Even on my 2nd play I was still getting my ass bent until I had better gear and more skills on my characters. That's just the nature of how the game is.
 

Ialda

Learned
Joined
Oct 13, 2019
Messages
124
The bonus you get from your roles are generally minor so yeah, get the ones that seems to fit with the tech list/skills of your characters and stop there - keep in mind trying to farm techs from weapons your character has zero skill may be a timesink / counterproductive.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
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Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
Game went from really hard to kinda easy and tedious. Most fights aren't a challenge, hard fights are usually hard because of bad luck.

I'm only partway through chapter 2, I've maxed the blacksmith, and there are no more upgrades for my guys. Everyone has all their techs, even my mage is maxed out. And there are still like 12 more Seigfrey quests to do. This is usually where I just rush for the end but I still feel like I'm missing a lot of content.

One funny thing happened--I beat a Scarlet Fiend boss and it immediately respawned as a harder version. The game just flat out said, "Don't even bother trying to fight this." Turned out it was three of the fiends together. Okay then.
 

Grampy_Bone

Arcane
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Jan 25, 2016
Messages
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Location
Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
Finished this, end boss was fairly easy but I felt overleveled. Siegfrei's quest was so long and grindy in chapter 2 I practically maxed everyone's health and had weapons skills at 50 for the whole team.

Overall I didn't like the limitations of the tech and BP system, it felt like it strangled the fun out of the game. Items and gear were too limited with upgrades being uninteresting; all the accessories were 'tradeoffs' too which was just lame.

There seemed to be quite a bit of depth in quest design and optional outcomes but too much trial and error. There's a lot of random PoIs to mess with on each map and no clue what half of it is for. I did one long and complicated mission involving tons of grinding and battles and all I got was a mid-tier longsword, not even one of the unique elemental weapons. Just another piece of junk to throw into the pile. Other quests reward crystals which was useful until I maxed everyone's gear (at the halfway point in the game) and then it was all trash. So pretty bad economy, in other SaGa games gold is highly useful.

I was able to get Braveheart (bonus damage) and Nimble (bonus speed) roles on the whole team with minimal grinding as the requirements are available easily to everyone. I don't know how big a difference they made but it made me happy to fill out everyone's role slots by the end. Urpina was the top-tier damage dealer with dual longswords, axe was quite useful with high power techs and numerous debuffs, rapier did well with poison and sleep. Spear was a disappointment with only the cheap stun attack being worthwhile and not having any really high power moves. Magic was also iffy, when you factor in casting time I'm not sure any magic is even worth it.

Overall okay game but far from the best Saga. If I could port these character models and animations into Minstrel Song I would, I prefer that game in all other ways.

:2/5:
 

OgreHermit

Novice
Joined
Mar 14, 2020
Messages
2
I agree with you Grampy_Bone, while Scarlet Grace started off challenging, it did become a tedious bore. There was a lot of content per area, but none of it felt engaging or fun to explore.
 

Kaivokz

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
1,499
I'm loving Scarlet Grace so far, but I'm still at the beginning. The challenge is there playing on hard and so far I'm really enjoying the character development. It's a little frustrating that Jamto hasn't been able to learn either block techniques for 2h sword or hammer even though I've been using him all game. Guess I might just stick him onto 1h sword and shield.

Right now I'm thinking I'll do this for my primary party:
Urpina 2h sword
The guy who looks like solid snake as martial arts and bow
Jamto sword/shield and 2h sword
The old guy with short sword/shield and spear
Solon or Marine (the healer chick) as mage depending on fight

I really like the combat mechanics. Unions, interrupts, counters, guards, delays, formations—it's all really enjoyable.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Been playing Romancing Saga 2 remaster almost non-stop for the last 3 days. The game has me well and truly hooked in a way I haven't felt in a while!

So far I've gone through 3 generations, I just finished pacifying Cumberland region and then went and roflstomped the pirates and forced them to join me, and that triggered my most recent Geneneration change.

Current party is:

-Theseus/emperor using 1h sword (crescent sword) + bow (castle-researched 19dmg Reinforced Bow)

-Magellan/pirate using 1h Axe (crappy 12dmg 'Gothic Axe') + 1h hammer (castle-researched 16dmg Battlehammer)

-Gemini/court mage using 1h hammer though I always have him casting Wind Blades so whatever...

-Hippolyta/castle mercenary using short-sword (castle-researched 11dmg Rapier) + spear (castle just forged a pretty nice 24dmg 'Diamond Spear')

-Mouse/castle "vagabond" from the thieve's guild using 1h sword (Worm Slayer, lower DMG than crescent sword however it has a great all-enemy target unique weapon skill called 'Swarm') + Exorcizer 2h greatsword (i have a better greatsword, a bastard sword, but I'm trying to see if i can learn the unique skill from the Exorcizer)

Anyone got any tips for learning abilities? So far I'm just playing normally and making sure to use 'attack' command when the encounter allows, i.e. when I don't need to kill the enemy before they party wipe me, and so far it's been fine, but there has to be a better way to trigger weapon abilities, right?

Also the game difficulty is :chef's kiss: muy bueno. There is always tension, life points are constantly decreasing as basically each encounter can result in one or more characters dead, and i can never take any fight lightly. It is good, but it is also mentally taxing a little bit... sometimes I find myself wishing the game let up just a bit and thew me an easy one, heh.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
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Florida
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Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I loved RS3 and RS2 I will start soon at some point. Good to know it's got that sweet juicy tension in abundance.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Romancing Saga 2, though I'm fairly sure the majority of this stuff applies in a general sense to RS 3 since RS 3 uses most of the same items that RS 2 uses. From a post someone made on GameFAQs:

Lots and lots of info in this game that isn't shown by the game. Reminds me of Wizardry in many ways. The "Def" value that armor pieces give only reflects the Slashing Resistance they provide and they always have other values in the other categories; for example the Rabbit's Foot gives a +20% chance to resist "other" types which in this game means to resist a debuff or ailment, and this is not told by the game, it only tells you about it's ability to nullify sleep.

Also lots of these items give LOGIC bonuses that aren't shown by the game, and LOGIC is the stat that determines how powerful your Dark magic spells are and how weak your Elemental spells are (higher LOGIC is good for Dark spells but BAD for elemental spells).

Looking through this I also realized that it's more beneficial to use undershirts (Budo Gi, doublet, that type) than it is to use gauntlets because gauntlet-type pieces give varying protection against different damage types, whereas undershirt-type pieces give a FLAT value of protection to ALL types.

Oh, and also apparently equipping gauntlet-type pieces decreases Bow skill modifier by a hidden amount.

Also it's nice to finally know exactly how shields and guards work. I only wish this guy had specified how 2-handed weapons work or interfere if you equip a shield/guard as well; the game says 2-h weapons interfere with shields but it lets me equip them anyways. Does it decrease the %chance of the shield/guard activating?

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Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Found the shield/guard info from the same guy:

Basically, you can only raise your shield if you're using a one-handed weapon, and certain stances can impede your ability to deflect attacks after your character has already acted.

There are also two types of shields, which I'll call mitigators and deflectors. Mitigators have both a defensive value and a percent value. The percent value represents how often the holder will raise his or her shield while the defensive value represents how much defense will be added upon raising it. This defensive bonus is not always active despite what the equip screen may show. It only takes effect when the shield is raised.

Deflectors, on the other hand, only have a percent value associated with them and therefore parry damage completely when raised, though with the caveat that multi-stage attacks still partially pierce through as only the damage of the first hit is negated. Deflectors tend to weigh less than mitigators but generally have lower activation percents.

It should also be noted that the types of attacks both types of shields can block are governed by hidden flags. Most mitigators, for instance, only defend against slash, strike, pierce, and missile damage, but the Dragon Shield also defends against heat, cold, and electricity. Similarly, most deflectors deal with slash, strike, and pierce attacks, but the Willguard works against all damage types.

Well, if I understand that correctly then that means 2-handed weapons are basically useless since all of the best weapons are 1-handed (best swords are 1-handed and the best 2-h greatsword is actually weaker). Sure, it's only a %chance to raise the shield/guard but that shit can be a LIFE SAVER. With the Templar Shield equipped you have a 50% chance to raise it when being attacked and when it activates it gives you +20 Def accross the board. Very nice! The Skysteel shield my other dudes have equipped only has a 20% chance to activate and while it does give +40 Def i'd rather have that 50% chance from the Templar shield than a measly 20% chance.


 

Kaivokz

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
1,499
Question for those who have played Scarlet Grace: I’m playing Urpina’s story and am to the point where the world opens up. Is this point of the game largely the same between characters or are the events unique?

I don’t want to fully explore everything and max everyone out on Urpina’s path it I could split the map between the other paths.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
Man, Romancing Saga 2 is punishing. I'm fucking loving it. Just got to the desert and the area has a debuff effect that halves your HP... brutal.
 

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