KickStarter Monomyth - A first person action RPG/dungeon crawler - now in Open Backer Beta

[Alpan]

Please stop this shit, I get a notification every time and I don't give a shit about your petty fights, I just wanna follow this game

On one hand, I agree.

On the other, having a 20+ page thread in General RPG Discussion, in no small part due to its own organically-grown share of moronic Codexer antics, is a mark of legitimacy here. Rat Tower should feel honored.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

It's not really a petty fight either. I brought up a legitimate and neutral point to the developer that stamina based combat does not work well in aRPGs. Never has, most likely never will. This is based on tons of aRPGs played, not some theoretical opinion either. Now, look, it's his game, he is doing a great job with it, it seems, so if he wants to do it this way, then obviously he s going to do it this way. I just feel like it's good for devs to hear some opposite views. So at that point it was pretty friendly.

But of course then, like anything else on the Internet, whatever you say, some wild retards appear and dispute it. You could say 2+2=4, and voila, some moron with write up a 2 page essay why it ain't so, and why with imaginary numbers, etc etc. In this case, these idiots will argue that Skyrim's stamina based combat is fun, or that people play Dark Souls for that stamina shield build. Hey listen, whatever floats your boat, I get a kick out of these people.

 

[Valky]

Has this idiot porky got his own shrine at kiwifarms yet?

 

[Harthwain]

There is no problem with somebody having an opinion. However, when somebody tries to pass his opinion as something more than it is (or devalues the opinions of others, simply because they differ from his) it is the point when one has to make an effort to keep the record straight. Also, I don't feel like the people should stop posting their opinions (right or wrong) anytime soon. It's kind of the point of having a discussion forum so that people post in them threads. I guess it sucks when you want to treat a thread purely as news feed for a game, but it's not a reasonable position to have, so... Sorry, not sorry.

 

[Nyast]

In terms of aRPG combat, what I've played of the alpha so far isn't too bad. It certainly "feels" and "looks" pretty good and you have to be careful with how you manage your stamina. If you ask me, its main flaw ( at the moment, in this alpha ) is that it gets too repetitive and boring quickly. The AI has only one attack pattern and keeps repeating it over and over with the exact same timings, with no room for surprises or switching to different tactics. It's the same for the player too, there are only 2 different types of attacks IIRC and no attack spells, so there's no room for varying gameplay. Hopefully there'll be a good range of spells and more attack skills to unlock later in the game.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

If you ask me, its main flaw ( at the moment, in this alpha ) is that it gets too repetitive and boring quickly. The AI has only one attack pattern and keeps repeating it over and over with the exact same timings, with no room for surprises or switching to different tactics. It's the same for the player too, there are only 2 different types of attacks IIRC and no attack spells, so there's no room for varying gameplay.

That's always the case with stamina combat systems. You are managing a resource outside the flow of combat (since a system like this by definition will never be as demanding in terms of timing as proper timing systems), and the resource management cannot be too in-depth because if it was, it would transition into being a tactical system. As it is, it's caught in between, lacking the fun aspects of either.

 

[Thal]

If you ask me, its main flaw ( at the moment, in this alpha ) is that it gets too repetitive and boring quickly. The AI has only one attack pattern and keeps repeating it over and over with the exact same timings, with no room for surprises or switching to different tactics. It's the same for the player too, there are only 2 different types of attacks IIRC and no attack spells, so there's no room for varying gameplay.

That's always the case with stamina combat systems. You are managing a resource outside the flow of combat (since a system like this by definition will never be as demanding in terms of timing as proper timing systems), and the resource management cannot be too in-depth because if it was, it would transition into being a tactical system. As it is, it's caught in between, lacking the fun aspects of either.

This is simply untrue. Severance is based on stamina management and it's one of the best melee combat systems in gaming. I just wrote about it here:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...sword-and-severance-blade-of-darkness.131712/

That being said, Monomyth's combat looks functional enough to me in recordings I've seen, but imo it would probably be better if it had attack directions or combos (like severance).

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

This is simply untrue. Severance is based on stamina management and it's one of the best melee combat systems in gaming. I just wrote about it here:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...sword-and-severance-blade-of-darkness.131712/
.

By stamina combat systems, I mean systems where stamina management is the main aspect of combat (as in Monomyth or Skyrim), not one of many others. Severance had timed blocking, dodging, combos, etc, and stamina was just one of things you managed, just like in say Dark Souls. Totally different things.

 

[V_K]

Yawn.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

And he just keeps on going...

 

[Namesake]

RatTower

Check out Elderborn for an example of indie FPS melee combat - it's sort of like a more approachable Dark Messiah. Came out recently and feels pretty ace. You could definitely lean towards this sort of speed / spacing / combat loop, while retaining your more methodical pacing.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/727850/ELDERBORN/

 

[RatTower]

RatTower

Check out Elderborn for an example of indie FPS melee combat - it's sort of like a more approachable Dark Messiah. Came out recently and feels pretty ace. You could definitely lean towards this sort of speed / spacing / combat loop, while retaining your more methodical pacing.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/727850/ELDERBORN/

Already got it during early access. I should definitely take another look at it now that it's finished.

 

[BlackGoat]

Please don't favor Dark Messiah pace over King's Field. I love the slow chunkiness. I think it could be slower even, tho obvsy I'm in the minority. People hate on KF4 slowness, but it feels almost just right to me, and KF1-3 feels blazing fast.

Tho both (or all) speeds have their merits. KF4 speed is a rarity tho

 

[JDR13]

and KF1-3 feels blazing fast.

 

[BlackGoat]

and KF1-3 feels blazing fast.

Compared to 4! Compared to 4

 

[JDR13]

Compared to 4! Compared to 4

Honestly, I didn't feel like there was any significant difference. All the KF games are slow as molasses. Great games for their time though.

 

[Ysaye]

Just wanted to say Rattower (that based on the videos people have made) this all looks very exciting so far.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Finally been playing and thoroughly testing this sunday.
I've been taking a bunch of notes and testing many things, I've even recorded some footage which I'll make a neatly edited video for you to see along side the notes. I still have to complete the demo (you packed a sizeble level dude, nice), then I'll do it again with a Thief character to better test the stealth. So don't worry RatTower you will get considerable amount of feedback from me - speaking of which the report buttons, in the game, don't seen to do anything...
Level design and general mechanics seem very solid so I mostly have nitpicks. The weakest aspect does seen to only be the melee combat and I'll give a detailed anylisis about it on the feedback.
But so far it really is the closest thing to Underworld since Arx. Very good job RatTower, I am excited to see the full game.



By the way, RatTower what are the penalties for dying?

EDIT:

 

[RatTower]

By the way, RatTower what are the penalties for dying?

Currently it permanently drains experience - which might become a problem without enemy respawn, so I may add a way to get at least a part of it back.

Speaking of changes: Unfortunately I didn't have enough time last week to finish the patch.
But here are some of the things I implemented over the weekend (most of which are features that were still lying around unfinished before deployment testing, so no big AI changes yet)

• Debug Position: The menu now shows a debug output for the player's position
• Torches: Adjusted torch light radius as well as the light's position so it doesn't clip into objects anymore
  Candles: Added candles as a new light source. They work like torches but with a smaller radius
• Keys: Made named keys more visible
• Water fountains: You can now draw water or drink from fountains. If it's a magic fountain, drinking from it either gives you health or mana, but only for the first sip. Then its just regular water until the magic replenishes.
• Crystal Flasks: Drawing magic water only works with crystal flasks - otherwise the magic escapes and you get regular water.
• First Aid: Training first aid lets you assess an enemy's health. I haven't decided yet how inaccurate the assessment should be on lower skill levels. For now its the D&D typical "wounded", "near death" etc. On higher levels you get the health bar again.
• Treasure: Gold and silver, gems and jewelry. I added lots and lots of treasure items to add some loot variety. You won't be seeing all of it in the alpha level since some of it is too precious for that part of the game.
• Stamina Management: Low stamina attacks now cause minimum damage instead of none. I still have to add breakout attacks for enemies to counter-balance this.
• Respawn System: Reworked the respawn system exactly the way I explained it earlier in the thread. There are no more "enemy nests" that have to be cleared before enemies stop respawning. Respawn is now handled individually. Spawn points can still change state and spit out a different set of NPCs though (basically secondary encounters to mix things up a bit).
• Mantling: Pulling yourself up is now automated.
• Mantling tutorial: Now that is the one I probably overdid. I added another room to explain mantling - and then another room and another cave, but those are kinda unrelated to mantling. They are just connected to that first room.
• Quickslots: Consumable items go straight to one of the four quickslots after picking them up.
• Momentum movement: I reworked movement into something working with actual velocity and momentum. It should feel more natural now - hopefully not too floaty.
• Other stuff: Added a twitter link in the menu. Speaking of menus, you should now be able to quit menus with the ESC key.

Hopefully I can push a build of this to steam very soon.

 

[Pearass]

Great list of changes Rat Tower!

I'm very excited to hop back into it when the next patch gets released. I'm especially excited about the momentum changes - I think that's going to make the movement feel a lot more crisp.

 

[Invictus]

If I might suggest something; respawning enemies in these kinds of games can be exploited by grinding so I would suggest just sticking to either no respawns (maybe a few stragglers here and there to make navigating interesting) or gated respawns after certain storytale points like in the Gothic games
Both approaches are great... but then again you seem to have to everything under control so I will trust on your good judgement

Oh and just leave death to be death, no penalties but also no automatic resurrection; you would need to reload a save or restart

Btw loving everything so far about this project, would only like to see more combat with humanoid enemies to see more of a give and go combat and adding some parrying mechanics (that affect both stamina consumption and regeneration) to make things more livelier
Love everything so far and it puts to shame most AA developers with their full team efforts

 

[Harthwain]

If I might suggest something; respawning enemies in these kinds of games can be exploited by grinding so I would suggest just sticking to either no respawns (maybe a few stragglers here and there to make navigating interesting) or gated respawns after certain storytale points like in the Gothic games

Why not make it so that a limited number of respawned enemies can give experience? This would still maintain enemies' function as a threat (because fighting them depletes health), while preventing the player's ability to grind limitless experience that way.

 

[Bad Sector]

Why prevent grinding? I always like spending some time to grind a few levels and then steamroll everything :-P

 

[Butter]

It's easier to get the difficulty curve right when you know how much XP the player can earn at any given point.

 

[V_K]

Yeah, because every player is absolutely the same.