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A Year of Rain - Warcraft 3-like RTS from Daedalic - game failed, development on hold

Citizen

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Popiel
Played one game with bots and I'm not sure why you think it's more moba than wc3 was. The core gameplay is the same - you play an RTS and simultaneously farm neutral monsters with your hero to gain XP. It's just that you are limited to one hero, as opposed to 3 (not sure, played it long ago) in wc3.

And in the beginning of the 2x2 match you are supposed to take a role, which gives your units and heroes defensive/offensive/utility skills and bonuses, so one player can specialize on tanking with his units and the other one would focus on dealing damage/debuffing/whatever. Pretty neat concept. There are no items for heroes though
 

Popiel

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Popiel
Played one game with bots and I'm not sure why you think it's more moba than wc3 was. The core gameplay is the same - you play an RTS and simultaneously farm neutral monsters with your hero to gain XP. It's just that you are limited to one hero, as opposed to 3 (not sure, played it long ago) in wc3.

And in the beginning of the 2x2 match you are supposed to take a role, which gives your units and heroes defensive/offensive/utility skills and bonuses, so one player can specialize on tanking with his units and the other one would focus on dealing damage/debuffing/whatever. Pretty neat concept. There are no items for heroes though
I don't really get you. Differences in gameplay are clear as day.

In Warcraft 3 player chooses only his race, and that’s ‘bout all what’s decided in pre-match (anything outside of the game notwithstanding) – you can even choose random faction and then you enter the match as a clean slate. Almost everything is decided in game. With 3 heroes chosen out of a huge rooster (your 4 racial heroes + tavern heroes) player has really high flexibility when it comes to constructing one’s gameplay and strategy. Yes, there’s meta and always was, but it’s highly fluid (just trace how best matches in major tournaments went) and unless you play at highly competitive level, like in a league, you can really flex your tactics and go for some wild, yet still viable, builds. That’s part of the reason why W3 is such a cult classic after all these years and is still played (other half of the equation being World Editor). The game is, dear I say, balanced (not really, but you get me meanin’).

In this piece of crossbred shit you choose your hero in pre-match, you can’t change your decision (in W3 you can’t change it either, but there’s much more choice on part of the player to adapt to the changing situation on the battlefield – you can train/buy next hero/es as circumstances change, diversify, change your leading hero and so on – you don’t have nearly as much flexibility as a player in AYoR) – just like in MOBAs. You choose your role – just like in MOBAs. You run around and kill shit for exp just like in MOBAs, and guess what, similarity between that part of the gameplay and W3 stems from the simple fact that MOBA as a gaming genre started as a map for Warcraft 3 – as DotA of course (well that’s not entirely true but still). From W3 it inherited some basic mechanics, trashmobs on the map being one of them, but perhaps most superficial. You don’t get to have an inventory in AYoR, but you get to have your very rudimentary base in which you rudimentarily upgrade your units, which work and feel more like controllable minions from DotA than units from W3. I predict that AYoR will have a very clear meta established after max month after release. It's MOBA design but without benefit of large rooster of heroes to choose: you have three factions three heroes each. As it's still a MOBA it will establish clear meta very fast.

Game is marketed more like a MOBA and if you don’t feel design choices inspired by LoL and other of its ilk just oozing from AYoR – I don’t know what to say to you.

And in the beginning of the 2x2 match you are supposed to take a role, which gives your units and heroes defensive/offensive/utility skills and bonuses, so one player can specialize on tanking with his units and the other one would focus on dealing damage/debuffing/whatever. Pretty neat concept.
This neat concept is copy-pasted from MOBAs and MMOs, it's one of the purest proofs that this game is blending some RTS elements with core design of a MOBA game (just like aforementioned Atlas Reactor is a MOBA but with X-COM twist on it). There's nothing like that in traditional RTS'.

EDIT: Trivia: your hero in AYoR, if dead, even respawns after set period of time... just like in a MOBA game. Player can't even choose not to resurrect his hero (for example so not to grant enemy exp for killing him).
 
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Popiel

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For honesty's sake I guess I can mention that it’s theoretically possible that design idea behind AYoR was to make an RTS indeed, but enriched with some many mechanics present in MOBA games, so as to, I don’t know, market it better for kids? RTS’ are somewhat dead of a genre after all, so that wouldn’t be a completely inane assumption to make: if we want to sell copies we need to adapt. There’s a problem with such line of thought though. Everything ‘bout this product suggests that it’s sort of other way around the problem: it’s a MOBA enhanced with some RTS design choices, as I described. It just plays that way, I won’t repeat myself Josh Sawyer damn it, go and read.
 

LESS T_T

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Codex 2014


Daedalic Entertainment has published the first in a new series of developer diaries about its upcoming team-based real-time strategy game, A Year Of Rain. Narrative Designer Benjamin Kuhn and Art Director Michael Teske discuss the narrative freedom the fantasy genre allows them, the ways in which two-player co-op can shape storytelling, and how each faction plays a unique part in the game’s rich world.

This dev diary also introduces for the first time A Year Of Rain’s third playable faction — the Wild Banners. As the name suggests, this faction is an amalgam of reclusive nomads, tribes, and monstrous humanoids. They are fierce survivalists ready to fight for every scrap of this harsh world.

The heroes leading the Wild Banner armies are every bit as diverse as the faction itself. The Gnoll Chieftain boosts and heals his allies while unleashing a barrage of arrows on his foes. The stealthy and mobile hellspawn Shadowdancer is extremely lethal against single enemies. And the fungal creature known as The Myconid controls the battlefield with spores and minions while supporting allies with symbiotic boosts.
 

LESS T_T

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Codex 2014


Why Early Access?
“A Year Of Rain is in the state where we are happy to share it with the RTS community and everyone looking to become part of it. We will use that opportunity to shape the game’s ongoing development. A Year Of Rain has been in active development for two years and is already a stable and highly engaging experience. However, there’s still a lot of content to come, balancing to be made and player feedback to be considered!”

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“Currently, we are focusing on adding new content and balancing the game based on player’s feedback and incoming data. We have a solid update cycle, allowing us to release updates roughly every six to eight weeks. We expect to reach full release state after about one and a half years of Early Access.”

How is the full version planned to differ from the Early Access version?
“The full version of the game will feature more story driven content. Additionally, there will be more maps for skirmish and custom game modes. There’s still a lot of balancing and fine-tuning to be done. Furthermore, our unique game mode “Against All Odds” will be introduced to the game!”

What is the current state of the Early Access version?
“The core gameplay is complete to a great extent. Players can enjoy a story driven campaign – alone or in co-op - and play skirmish matches on a variety of different maps. Multiplayer is fully supported, including replays, statistics and an observer mode – So the game will launch into Early Access as “eSports ready”!”

Will the game be priced differently during and after Early Access?
“Possibly. We will re-evaluate the pricing as we release major content updates that add to the scope of the game. These updates will be our biggest “milestones” during Early Access, we are going to consider if an increase in price is justified and what the scale should be. We will of course inform our community about our plans and reasoning.”

How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?
“On one hand, the game’s community is involved already just by playing the game! As we receive data about multiplayer matches played, heroes and factions used, units built and outcomes generated, we gain valuable insight into the game’s balancing. These insights are fundamental for fine-tuning the game mechanics.
On the other hand, the community can reach out to us via Discord and the game’s community hub to give voice to their requests for changes and additions, ideas and suggestions, as well as experiences with the game. A lot of content is still to come and shaping said content together with our community is a great opportunity for us!”
 

thesheeep

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A Year of GAY
Wash your filthy mouth!
With soap!
EC5YEiJXsAAOQRH.png
 

thesheeep

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Errhh... just watched some gameplay, the hell you guys were on about with that MOBA stuff?
Doesn't look like a MOBA at all to me - except for the graphics style, I guess: The way attacks are communicated/effects/highlighting, but honestly that's what MOBAs are good at so why not take it for classic RTS with heroes?



Maybe the building/upgrading is a bit basic, but other than that it does seem like a classic RTS - though don't get it yet, seems like pathing is pretty broken.
 
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thesheeep

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Aaaaaand, it's dead:
https://steamcommunity.com/games/319540/announcements/detail/1692726369386052405

We now are able to give you insight on our likely last big Update for A Year of Rain. We are sorry for the time of silence, though we wanted to be completely sure, that everything will work out as we decided on. This means as well, that the Update will already hit in the next 2 days. Our goal from the start was to show our own individual passion and love for the RTS genre, and simultaneously gain new experiences in the world of competitive titles. Over the course of this period we have received a lot of feedback – both positive and negative, but usually constructive. We have had tournaments with RTS veterans giving us their opinions and praise and we have had great, honest talks with our community on Discord, Steam and at conventions like Gamescom, PAX South/West, Wacken Open Air, Igromir, Dreamhack and others. Unfortunately, even when this was more than we ever could have asked for on the emotional, personal side – the low player base that you have witnessed yourselves hurts us substantially - We reached no more than 5000 players worldwide until today. We are deeply sorry for everyone who felt, or will feel, let down by us and the path we had to choose, considering we are an independent studio with limited resources.

We have decided to put the active development of A Year Of Rain on hold and minimize recurring costs by replacing the official game servers with a new P2P System. You will still be able to play multiplayer matches by opening up a lobby that others can join but there will not be any automatic matchmaking anymore.

This means as well, that Leaderboards and player statistics will disappear, but, as a positive side effect, portraits and titles are automatically unlocked from the beginning.
For now, there will be no further additions or significant improvements to the game. Unfortunately, this means that some of the changes we were working on – like the revamped pathfinding – will not be coming.

Currently we had to choose between the existing pathfinding system, which is not working ideally but functional, and the new pathfinding system, which is more advanced but simply not yet functional at all. There are just no easy or quick solutions for this situation, since the low sales and player base restrict us from finalizing the new pathfinding.

However, we will still release the remaining maps as well as the new game mode “Against All Odds” when we make the switch to the new version. While the new content does not quite match the usual level of quality that we have set as the bar for ourselves, we believe we should not hold them back and really wanted to share what some team members spent their last two years working on.

To learn more about the changes we are implementing you can find a detailed changelog below. Please excuse that this is in English only.

We hope that you understand the situation we were facing and still find enjoyment with the game in its new form. We were able to preserve as much as possible of the experience and we hope that you are able to see our effort in doing so.

Thank you for the overwhelming support you have shown since we launched. You gave us the needed strength to deal with the very painful decision we had to make. Hopefully we made up to it with this specific way of handling the unfortunate circumstances.

Best Regards - The A Year Of Rain Team

If developers only stopped going for the multiplayer crowd with base building RTS games...

Enough single player RTS titles that prove there's a large enough audience to make it feasible.
But any game going for the tiny MP crowd with a title like this fails because those titles never launch in a state that could even get close to the current state of SC2 or AoE.
Why would anyone invest time in this when they want to play PvP (or co-op PvE) and there are titles doing the same thing but better?

A business model for a new base builder RTS that depends on having a large amount of players at all times just sounds absurd to me - even if was in a better state than A Year Of Rain was.
 

Citizen

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They had a perfect chance to go big with a wc3 killer during a wc3:reforged disaster, tho. Missed a huge opportunity here
 

Galdred

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
In this piece of crossbred shit you choose your hero in pre-match, you can’t change your decision (in W3 you can’t change it either, but there’s much more choice on part of the player to adapt to the changing situation on the battlefield – you can train/buy next hero/es as circumstances change, diversify, change your leading hero and so on – you don’t have nearly as much flexibility as a player in AYoR) – just like in MOBAs. You choose your role – just like in MOBAs. You run around and kill shit for exp just like in MOBAs, and guess what, similarity between that part of the gameplay and W3 stems from the simple fact that MOBA as a gaming genre started as a map for Warcraft 3 – as DotA of course (well that’s not entirely true but still). From W3 it inherited some basic mechanics, trashmobs on the map being one of them, but perhaps most superficial. You don’t get to have an inventory in AYoR, but you get to have your very rudimentary base in which you rudimentarily upgrade your units, which work and feel more like controllable minions from DotA than units from W3. I predict that AYoR will have a very clear meta established after max month after release. It's MOBA design but without benefit of large rooster of heroes to choose: you have three factions three heroes each. As it's still a MOBA it will establish clear meta very fast.

It was also the case in Warlords Battlecry 3: you were stuck with a hero for the whole campaign, with a given class. But the game still didn't play like a MOBA at all.

They had a perfect chance to go big with a wc3 killer during a wc3:reforged disaster, tho. Missed a huge opportunity here

You say that as if making a great RTS was trivial :D
 
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Alpharius

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Aaaaaand, it's dead
Wow, that was completely unexpe
A Year Of Rain is a fantasy RTS. Fans of the genre won’t find formerly story-focused developers Daedalic Entertainment trying to reinvent the wheel, but they are throwing a few twists into the mix. The most obvious of these is that the game is entirely cooperative. Three game modes – a 2v2 clash, a story-focused campaign, and a pair-versus-an-army struggle called Against All Odds – all require you to play with a buddy. If you don’t have one available and don’t fancy matchmaking, the game can provide an AI helper, but there’s no way to play entirely alone.
That ought to be the sureset way to remove even a slightest possibility that this game's automatch won't be dead in a month or so after release. And they want "esports", lul.
:prosper:


Why would anyone invest time in this when they want to play PvP (or co-op PvE) and there are titles doing the same thing but better?
Because people get bored of playing the same game over and over?

Idk i think it could have worked if the didn't decrease their number of potential players tenfold by making it 2v2-only.

Enough single player RTS titles that prove there's a large enough audience to make it feasible.
Were there any single player RTS games other than They are Billions? :what:
 
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thesheeep

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Because people get bored of playing the same game over and over?
I think that is a wrong assumption.
People who are into that kind of game have been playing SC1, SC2, AoE and I guess even WC3 for ages now.
It doesn't seem to disturb them too much.

And just a new game popping up aimed at that audience isn't enough, as this game has proven.
To even have a chance (and a small one at that) to be successful in that market, the game has to be good enough to compete with something like SC2. That's Blizzard level polishing (before they went to shit, that is) and years of balance to compete with.
In addition to all the server-side infrastructure that you need to not only have custom games but competent matchfinding, ladders, etc. And marketing to get the hype going way before release.
In other words, you need to invest many millions. And do everything right, not only the game, but all the things around it. To even stand a chance.
That's a catastrophically terrible business proposition if I ever heard one.

Those who try with less effort than that end up like this game or Grey Goo. The games might (re-)activate some players that have stopped playing The Old Ones(tm), but then they try out the new games and find them severely lacking compared to what they already knew - so why stick with it?

It is in the nature of PvP/competitive focused games that you can't just push out your typical early access kind of deal and the people will come - that really only works for single player or co-op.
In competitive/PvP, players have proven historically to be a lot less likely to hop onto something new just because it is there. Because they have all that experience/teams/friends/etc. already in what they currently play - a new title would mean losing that, or risking to fall behind, etc.
Single-player games do not have that problem at all and co-op titles to a much lesser degree.

Were there any single player RTS games other than They are Billions?
You need to go out more, I'm not even going to answer that. Just use your Google Fu or take a look at categories in Steam.
It's not a large market like RPGs or Action games, sure, but definitely large enough to sustain a couple of developers.
 
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Alpharius

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Because people get bored of playing the same game over and over?
I think that is a wrong assumption.
People who are into that kind of game have been playing SC1, SC2, AoE and I guess even WC3 for ages now.
It doesn't seem to disturb them too much.

And just a new game popping up aimed at that audience isn't enough, as this game has proven.
To even have a chance (and a small one at that) to be successful in that market, the game has to be good enough to compete with something like SC2. That's Blizzard level polishing (before they went to shit, that is) and years of balance to compete with.
In addition to all the server-side infrastructure that you need to not only have custom games but competent matchfinding, ladders, etc. And marketing to get the hype going way before release.
In other words, you need to invest many millions. And do everything right, not only the game, but all the things around it. To even stand a chance.
That's a catastrophically terrible business proposition if I ever heard one.

Those who try with less effort than that end up like this game or Grey Goo. The games might (re-)activate some players that have stopped playing The Old Ones(tm), but then they try out the new games and find them severely lacking compared to what they already knew - so why stick with it?

It is in the nature of PvP/competitive focused games that you can't just push out your typical early access kind of deal and the people will come - that really only works for single player or co-op.
In competitive/PvP, players have proven historically to be a lot less likely to hop onto something new just because it is there. Because they have all that experience/teams/friends/etc. already in what they currently play - a new title would mean losing that, or risking to fall behind, etc.
Single-player games do not have that problem at all and co-op titles to a much lesser degree.
Eugene and Relic RTS games have done just fine(as long as the devs done their own thing instead of trying to copy the competitors) while having nowhere nearly the same quality of balance, matchmaking & esports tools etc.

Were there any single player RTS games other than They are Billions?
You need to go out more, I'm not even going to answer that. Just use your Google Fu or take a look at categories in Steam.
It's not a large market like RPGs or Action games, sure, but definitely large enough to sustain a couple of developers.
Single player RTS is a regular RTS that doesn't have multiplayer, no? Not sure what are you talking about unless you are also including economy & survival sims into "single player RTS". Or is it tower defense games? :D
Steam obviously doesn't have such a categoriy and google obvioulsy only finds regular RTS games. https://www.google.com/search?&q=single+player+rts+games
 

thesheeep

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Eugene and Relic RTS games have done just fine
Sorry, the DoW games totally slipped my mind. But of those, only DoW1 really was a classic RTS. And DoW3... lol, let's not get into that.
Which is what I was talking about, classic RTS games with base building, not something like Wargame. Probably should have mentioned that...

Competitive RTS games without any real base building at all seem to be doing better at a smaller scale, but I'm not too interested in those so I got nothing to really talk about there.

Single player RTS is a regular RTS that doesn't have multiplayer, no?
Nobody said a single player focused RTS cannot have multiplayer.
See Northgard, see Tooth & Tail, etc.
Those games have multiplayer and some did/do play it, but not competitively so. The focus is clearly on single player or co-op content.
 

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"We were told that the game is shit so fuck improving it, thanks for the money I guess"
 

thesheeep

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"We were told that the game is shit so fuck improving it, thanks for the money I guess"
You are not wrong.

But you can't really blame them for pulling the plug, either.
The game is a lost cause for them, why waste even more money? It's not like this is some indie studio with only one title that everything depends on.
 

Alpharius

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Eugene and Relic RTS games have done just fine
Sorry, the DoW games totally slipped my mind. But of those, only DoW1 really was a classic RTS. And DoW3... lol, let's not get into that.
Which is what I was talking about, classic RTS games with base building, not something like Wargame. Probably should have mentioned that...

Competitive RTS games without any real base building at all seem to be doing better at a smaller scale, but I'm not too interested in those so I got nothing to really talk about there.

Single player RTS is a regular RTS that doesn't have multiplayer, no?
Nobody said a single player focused RTS cannot have multiplayer.
See Northgard, see Tooth & Tail, etc.
Those games have multiplayer and some did/do play it, but not competitively so. The focus is clearly on single player or co-op content.
Dow 1 and 3, coh 1 and coh 2 had your usual "classic" rts campaigns. Or is it only "classic" if its Starcraft clone? Nothguard certainly has much less in common with Starcraft than all the Relic and Eugene games.

Well whatever. I guess i wouldn't be opposed to developers trying to invest more resources into campaigns. But i disagree with you on RTS needing to be on the level of SC2 to have any chance of success among competitive players.

The problem with RTS single player is that if the game is sufficiently complex it becomes too hard to make the AI that can provide any challenge to the player, unless they don't play by the same rules. And the usual way of overcoming this by making the AI "cheat" makes the game boring most of the time. Like build 200 limit of battlecruisers, a-click on an enemy base, so strategy much tactics, wow. Or get fucked and load save.

Imo following the They are Billions example is the way to go, as the rules by which the AI should play were developed simultaneously with the rest of the game and not when the "base" game was mostly finished. I thought it was this you were talking about when you mentioned single player RTS.

Didn't like Nothguard that much tbh, its more of an (unsuccessful) Settlers remake than an RTS.
Will look into Tooth & Tail Meh, furries. :decline:
 

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They took it out of Early Access:



https://steamcommunity.com/games/319540/announcements/detail/1693854792178087138

Conversion to Maintenance Mode
We talk about our upcoming steam-store changes

Dear Community,


it has been roughly 3 weeks since we talked about the path that A Year of Rain will be following in the future and we are overwhelmed that those of you who tested out the changes have brought up 100% positive feedback about the new state of the game, even though they were sad, that the game won’t grow further from this point on - which is definitely understandable. None-the-less, this proves to us, that our decision to change the multiplayer system to a Peer-to-Peer System brought several positive effects with it - one of those being a visibly better performance.

Even though we are fully able to stand behind A Year o Rain as it is now, we understand that this version might differ from what was planned in the beginning - this is why we continued the communication with Steam and made some decisions to reflect the changes of the recent weeks. None-the-less we want to make clear as well, that this doesnt mean we are abondoning the game, as some community members were already afraid of that being a possible outcome - We are still keeping A Year of Rain in Maintenance Mode.

We are glad to say that everyone of you, who purchased the game until now/until the 27th of February 2020 will find a copy of our Sci-Fi Multiplayer Survival Title “Cryofall” in their library - as an additional “Thank You” for believing in our first vision of the game. Additionally we will step out of Early Access and lower the pricing of A Year of Rain after February 27th - this is when you will be gifted your copy of Cryofall as well.

So, if you didnt have already - rally up your friends and test out the new changes to the game - we are positive you will enjoy it!

Best Regards,

The A Year of Rain - Team
 

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