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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Jarpie

Arcane
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Codex 2012 MCA
I think that the campaign will slow down considerably now after the initial excitement, and then pick up in the last week.
Depends on the developers. They haven't done much of anything, really. Fans have been doing most of the work for them. If the developers start doing interviews, come up with better stretch goals, constant updates to the kickstarter. Then the hype machine will keep feeding itself.

Perhaps, but it happens to practically all campaigns.
I know. I'm just saying that the Kickstarter has been doing so great, without the developers doing much of anything.

Oh, it's doing much better than I expected, I thought it might get just over a million dollars, it'll probably get near 2 million dollars. I think devs are also very surprised how well the campaign is doing.
 

Pink Eye

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I'm very into cock and ball torture
I think that the campaign will slow down considerably now after the initial excitement, and then pick up in the last week.
Depends on the developers. They haven't done much of anything, really. Fans have been doing most of the work for them. If the developers start doing interviews, come up with better stretch goals, constant updates to the kickstarter. Then the hype machine will keep feeding itself.

Perhaps, but it happens to practically all campaigns.
I know. I'm just saying that the Kickstarter has been doing so great, without the developers doing much of anything.

Oh, it's doing much better than I expected, I thought it might get just over a million dollars, it'll probably get near 2 million dollars. I think devs are also very surprised how well the campaign is doing.
I hope this tells them that they should add monk content into the game.
 

Grampy_Bone

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Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
The word "unnecessary" is there for a reason, although perhaps it wasn't the best choice either. Of course you will always have abstractions, but the original abstraction of a saving throw didn't do a very good of representing a lot of situations that come up in dungeon crawling. They furthermore aren't interactive on the defender's part, and cancel magical effects without any explanation of what is going on. Hit points are an abstractions as well, but you at least have an idea that when someone has taken damage, that they are in some way hurt. If they took damage from a fireball, they should be somewhat burnt. If it was a sword, they are cut up. Saving throws just stop the gaming fiction on its tracks and don't mesh well with any kind of player idea of counter-action (you can, of course, allow the players to do all the things I mentioned above in a Pathfinder game if you want. But the saving throw system is not helping you do it).

Edit: As for this slowing down the game, I don't think this is significantly more complex than the stuff that Shadowrun 3e did. The GM should be ready to make a ruling on anything too crazy the PCs come up with, and the system can help with more common situations (for instance, how far can you throw yourself from your current position away from a fireball blast, given speed and whatever other abilities that might affect this).

Literally everything you said was "roll a dexterity check." Dexterity as in, idk, REFLEXES. The only other thing you mentioned was counterspelling, which is also an option in 3.x games.

Players are free to imagine what reflexes mean to them. If it meant diving for cover, fine. If someone is hampered by rough terrain or spells (entangle) then that affects their reflex save and prevents evasion. Thus these rules provide the exact outcomes you desire with the required level of simulation. You are arguing over flavor text.

I've played with groups like this where the DM expects to adjust or overrule basic mechanics like saves and skill checks on a per-roll basis and it always, ALWAYS devolves into fighting with the DM. No exceptions.

Saving throws are fine. Everyone knows how they work and what they do. There's nothing to argue about there.
 

Xamenos

Magister
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Pathfinder: Wrath
To the people ragging on the Queen's artwork.

This is Paizo's Amiri:
381px-Amiri_2nd_edition.jpg


And this is Owlcat's:
405px-Amiri.png


Cut the Russians some slack, they know what they're doing.
 

user

Savant
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
839
Hope the next goal contains something more than just Skald, else decline is coming. Bard-hybrids are even worse than monks.

By the way, the whale who donated 10k, ended up backing out.

Whoa, do we know why? I think it was a steamer, Cohh Carnage?
Edit: So it was probably not him backing out.
 

Alex

Arcane
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Jun 14, 2007
Messages
8,752
Location
São Paulo - Brasil
I really don't see the problem with advantage and disadvantage.
Yeah I don't see the disadvantage of an advantage and disadvantage system either.

The main problem I have is this:

5e SRD said:
If circumstances cause a roll to have both advantage and disadvantage, you are considered to have neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose disadvantage and only one grants advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither advantage nor disadvantage.

The issue here is that the system has no gradation; you either have the advantage or not. Now a whole lot of other systems, including Fighting Fantasy (which is so simple characters in that only have 3 attributes) saw no problem in allowing gradation on how different situations were treated. A minor problems might just be a -1 to your roll, while a greate difficulty could be a much larger number (depending on what kind of dice your system uses, -10 is a whole lot if you roll 2d6 for skill checks, but it isn't such a big problem if you are rolling a d100).

The reason this is important is that frequently, how good a plan the PCs have to solve something will translate directly into some kind of advantage or disadvantage. For example, if you are fighting a troll, you might get him on slippery ground, create distractions with sound illusions around him and get him into a specially narrow section of the dungeon so he has little room for manoeuvring. But if all this does is give him a disadvantage while fighting, and you could get the exact same effect by, say, casting curse on it, there is no point to these plans. The system no longer represents reality, and is just a game you play instead; and living and dying is no longer a question of being creative but of mastering a formal math system.
 

user

Savant
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
839
By the way, the whale who donated 10k, ended up backing out.
It was one of the $5k guys, not the $10k one. The $10k tier is still filled.
Makes sense. I wonder why they pulled out.

Maybe his parents found out.

To the people ragging on the Queen's artwork.

This is Paizo's Amiri:
381px-Amiri_2nd_edition.jpg


And this is Owlcat's:
405px-Amiri.png


Cut the Russians some slack, they know what they're doing.

I kind of prefer the first...
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,006
Pathfinder: Wrath
Jesus fucking christ, you take that back and NOW.
He'd have supervision at Owlcat, something he didn't have at Obs and desperately needs. He also likes looking at particular skills/phenomena and saying why they are overpowered, as opposed to looking at the whole class/system. Josh would bring some necessary balance to this system while not going overboard with the streamlining like he did in PoE2.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,545
To the people ragging on the Queen's artwork.

This is Paizo's Amiri:
381px-Amiri_2nd_edition.jpg


And this is Owlcat's:
405px-Amiri.png


Cut the Russians some slack, they know what they're doing.

I kind of prefer the first...
Both kinda look like on of those chinese comic/cartoon characters where the japs try to make the characters more "realistic and mature", because in their minds it's something that will appeal more to actual people.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,545
Jesus fucking christ, you take that back and NOW.
He'd have supervision at Owlcat, something he didn't have at Obs and desperately needs. He also likes looking at particular skills/phenomena and saying why they are overpowered, as opposed to looking at the whole class/system. Josh would bring some necessary balance to this system while not going overboard with the streamlining like he did in PoE2.
If anything like this happens I'm running a kickstarter to drone strike you, is all I'm saying.
 

Xamenos

Magister
Patron
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
1,256
Pathfinder: Wrath
Jesus fucking christ, you take that back and NOW.
He'd have supervision at Owlcat, something he didn't have at Obs and desperately needs. He also likes looking at particular skills/phenomena and saying why they are overpowered, as opposed to looking at the whole class/system. Josh would bring some necessary balance to this system while not going overboard with the streamlining like he did in PoE2.
The only balance needed in a single-player game is to have more than one ways to make your characters absurdly overpowered. Pathfinder has that. All Owlcat needs to do is make more enemies provide some actual challenge in higher difficulties, like they promised.
 

Pink Eye

Monk
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Messages
5,797
Location
Space Refrigerator
I'm very into cock and ball torture
Jesus fucking christ, you take that back and NOW.
He'd have supervision at Owlcat, something he didn't have at Obs and desperately needs. He also likes looking at particular skills/phenomena and saying why they are overpowered, as opposed to looking at the whole class/system. Josh would bring some necessary balance to this system while not going overboard with the streamlining like he did in PoE2.
The only balance needed in a single-player game is to have more than one ways to make your characters absurdly overpowered. Pathfinder has that. All Owlcat needs to do is make more enemies provide some actual challenge in higher difficulties, like they promised.
>All Owlcat needs to do is make more enemies provide some actual challenge in higher difficulties, like they promised
That's what they promised, yes. It remains to be seen how they are going to address difficulty with the introduction of the mythic system.
 

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