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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Grampy_Bone

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Plenty of ways to challenge high level parties in Pathfinder, but they may require more development effort than Owlcat is willing or able to spend.

I'd like to see a system where LOS is realistic (no more fog of war, you can see into an entire room or not). If monsters can see in the dark but PCs can't then monsters should charge players from outside the LOS instead of milling around doing nothing. I'd also like to see monster groups that react to combat elsewhere in the dungeon. One fight could potentially cascade into multiple fights in a row, forcing players to barricade into a room and whether a mini monster siege.

That kind of stuff requires either heavy scripting or emergent AI. Much easier to just slap +4 stats on everything and call it good.
 

Lawntoilet

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To the people ragging on the Queen's artwork.

This is Paizo's Amiri:
381px-Amiri_2nd_edition.jpg


And this is Owlcat's:
405px-Amiri.png


Cut the Russians some slack, they know what they're doing.
Look man I see your point I'm just not that into GGGGGMILFs
 

The Wall

Dumbfuck!
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OFFICIALY [if no one pulls out] In less than a week Owlcats have achieved more than with 5 weeks of Kingmaker's kickstarter!

Somewhere across the world, in America's Wound, land of Demonffornia:

"Does making good, wild fun games unshackled by chains of total balance makes people want more of you, more of your game?" wonders Joshy Sawyer. "Hmm...YES!" said Joshy as he made poor bike squeel with his hands and customer was now nervously watching both of them "you see your back wheel wasn't in perfect harmony with rest of itz body, let me fix that"
 

fantadomat

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By the way, the whale who donated 10k, ended up backing out.
It was one of the $5k guys, not the $10k one. The $10k tier is still filled.
Makes sense. I wonder why they pulled out.

Maybe his parents found out.

To the people ragging on the Queen's artwork.

This is Paizo's Amiri:
381px-Amiri_2nd_edition.jpg


And this is Owlcat's:
405px-Amiri.png


Cut the Russians some slack, they know what they're doing.

I kind of prefer the first...
I prefer the first one's face,but anything else is of lower quality,don't even have trees. Still that face,would love showing a fat dick in it.
 

The Wall

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Guyz from kickstarter comments have good evidence that NameDemonLordPutinLolz fag, who contributed 5k $ was one who pulled out cause devs refused his request
 

S.torch

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Messages
937
Just don't use Paizo's shitty artwork to justify your irrational dislikes.

Well, Paizo is the "official" artwork. But you're right, the good russians fixed the awful appareance. Maybe they will do the same this time.
 

Xamenos

Magister
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Pathfinder: Wrath
Guyz from kickstarter comments have good evidence that NameDemonLordPutinLolz fag, who contributed 5k $ was one who pulled out cause devs refused his request
Good for Owlcat to have some proper quality control this time, that Hellknight/Pirate shit was cancer.

(You guys were cool though. It was a fun quest with one of the few remotely challenging battles of the game)
 

Ontopoly

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You people don't appreciate a strong women? Gallifrey is 10 / 10 and I've never wanted something in a game so bad. I want someone who's going to fight and lead beside me, not some women eating cake a thousand miles away.
 

The Wall

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They say all of his comments are now gone, and indeed he was boasting about his pledge lvl and every day asking in increasingly annoying ways various stuff in game to be named after Putin

Probably just some FSB agent, testing Owlcats patriotism :D
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/owlcatgames/pathfinder-wrath-of-the-righteous/posts/2752375

Companions: Introducing Lann, the Zen Archer

Dear Pathfinders,

We've just surpassed a significant and symbolical milestone for us — our campaign gathered more funds than Pathfinder: Kingmaker did! Thank you for the support, attention, and trust! With all stretch-goals already funded, and all that are still ahead, this is going to be truly mythic.

07082539edd372ba298233e93f6feed5_original.png

As you fight your way into the depths of the Worldwound, you will meet different heroes, each with their own backstory, and with their own reasons for being in this grim and dangerous region of Golarion and for joining the crusade (or not). Some of them will be familiar to you from the original AP, while others will be completely new. Just as in our first game, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, one of our goals is to create bold, memorable characters and to offer as many branches as possible so you can forge your own relationships with characters you meet along the way, depending on the main character you create, your alignment, and your own playing style. In this update, we’ll start introducing you to your potential future companions. Let’s kick things off with Lann — the warrior, the friend, the man.

d97913db04d19f34ff9c54f2c5156d2b_original.jpg

Crusaders are the true heroes of Mendev, but there are always those who are erased from history, and who wait in the darkness until they are recognized and revealed to the world once more. The mongrels are one such people that history forgot, the cursed children of the First Crusade. “Lann the Man '' is one of them, a stoic zen archer and dispenser of dry wit.

Mongrels are the descendants of the first crusaders, whose souls were untouched by the corruption, but whose bodies suffered the aftereffects of the Worldwound. Their offspring were born with various mutations, and the luckiest of them — those who were able to breathe and had a full set of vital organs — faced fear and hatred because of their resemblance to demons.

The mongrels were driven into the damp and dark caves beneath Kenabres, and gradually, as one short-lived generation replaced another, the crusades themselves became the stuff of legends, and the surface an unachievable dream. To this day, the mongrels believe that they are the “crusaders below,” protecting Mendev from the monsters that lurk in the darkness.

Lann can be considered one of the luckiest of his race. Born to a mongrel father and half-elf mother, he looks half-man, half-lizard, and with a prominent horn, but his peculiar appearance doesn't prevent him from being charming in his own brusque way.

Lann hasn’t spent his entire life in the caves. For some time, his parents wandered between surface and underground, looking for a place where their unusual family could live in peace. Because of this, he speaks Common freely, and has first-hand knowledge of the world that the other mongrels fear.

Yes, Lann’s life has been full of hardship, but he is not one for brooding. He wears his sense of humor like armor, and uses jokes to cheer those around him. His reliable nature makes him the perfect companion for a dangerous journey.

A cave isn’t the best training ground for an archer, but Lann had no other place to master his skills: his tribe's survival depended on his ability to hunt anywhere. This harsh training has made him the perfect zen archer—patient, but quick to shoot. Rest assured, with Lann at your side, the enemy won’t even get close.

To arms!

Owlcats

a2c1517a9007f74c818899c4d89a9213_original.png
 

Ontopoly

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Good for Owlcat to have some proper quality control this time, that Hellknight/Pirate shit was cancer.

(You guys were cool though. It was a fun quest with one of the few remotely challenging battles of the game)

Do we know what his request was?
 

The Wall

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I wonder what box on Golarion demographic statistics census does Lann tick off. . . Or how many, better said
 

Ontopoly

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The stronger the women the better. I would have liked Amiri if she was actually strong and wasn't a phony. No weaklings in my party.
 

Lawntoilet

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He'd have supervision at Owlcat, something he didn't have at Obs and desperately needs. He also likes looking at particular skills/phenomena and saying why they are overpowered, as opposed to looking at the whole class/system. Josh would bring some necessary balance to this system while not going overboard with the streamlining like he did in PoE2.
I don't think Avellone likes him much and he is the Big Swinging American Dick of the Owlcat crew.
>absurdly overpowered characters
>challenging combat/encounters

Pick one. They literally contradict each other.
No they don't. Make the enemies play by the same rules as the players and make the encounters optional. Like Twisted Rune or Kangaxx.
You people don't appreciate a strong women? Gallifrey is 10 / 10 and I've never wanted something in a game so bad. I want someone who's going to fight and lead beside me, not some women eating cake a thousand miles away.
The Owlcat portrait isn't bad, the Paizo one makes her look like a severe old bag, but neither rendition is a 10/10.
 

hell bovine

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The only balance needed in a single-player game is to have more than one ways to make your characters absurdly overpowered. Pathfinder has that. All Owlcat needs to do is make more enemies provide some actual challenge in higher difficulties, like they promised.
>absurdly overpowered characters
>challenging combat/encounters

Pick one. They literally contradict each other.
And yet that's how the BG2/SCS/Ascension setup works.
 

Alex

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Jun 14, 2007
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São Paulo - Brasil
I really don't see the problem with advantage and disadvantage.
Yeah I don't see the disadvantage of an advantage and disadvantage system either.

The main problem I have is this:

5e SRD said:
If circumstances cause a roll to have both advantage and disadvantage, you are considered to have neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose disadvantage and only one grants advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither advantage nor disadvantage.

The issue here is that the system has no gradation; you either have the advantage or not. Now a whole lot of other systems, including Fighting Fantasy (which is so simple characters in that only have 3 attributes) saw no problem in allowing gradation on how different situations were treated. A minor problems might just be a -1 to your roll, while a greate difficulty could be a much larger number (depending on what kind of dice your system uses, -10 is a whole lot if you roll 2d6 for skill checks, but it isn't such a big problem if you are rolling a d100).

The reason this is important is that frequently, how good a plan the PCs have to solve something will translate directly into some kind of advantage or disadvantage. For example, if you are fighting a troll, you might get him on slippery ground, create distractions with sound illusions around him and get him into a specially narrow section of the dungeon so he has little room for manoeuvring. But if all this does is give him a disadvantage while fighting, and you could get the exact same effect by, say, casting curse on it, there is no point to these plans. The system no longer represents reality, and is just a game you play instead; and living and dying is no longer a question of being creative but of mastering a formal math system.
Ah ok I see your criticism, however I use both systems in pathfinder and I'm aware that advantage gives roughly +3 to the roll. So I can grade up and down if a lesser/greater bonus is needed. I just use advantage most of the time because it can be swingy and I think it's exciting for players when they get a big swing

Sure! My problem was never with the idea of rolling an extra dice, I think it can be a good idea if mixed with flat bonuses as well like you do. I mean, it can be a bit difficult to figure out when to apply either, but that is up to individual DMs to deal with. As a side note, I think the idea of advantage dices works well with D&D because D&D usually rolls a single dice for everything. In a system like GURPS, where you roll 3d6 instead of a d20, or anything that uses dice pools, you get a nice probability curve already from flat advantages. A +5 in GURPS can make a much greater difference than it does in D&D, even though the random values you get for a test are similar.

(...snip)
Back in the day I played D&D with this group who liked to be "creative" in combat. A battle would start and instead of making attack rolls they would say "I stab the orc in the eye." The DM would have them roll a dex check or something and then conclude "You stabbed the orc, it dies." WTF? The combat system implies everyone is trying to kill each other as best they can, that's what attack rolls and AC and HP are for.

True, except there are a lot of inconsistencies in AD&D. For instance, having rules in the Monster Manual for targeting beholder eye-stalks. But having a bit of inconsistency is par for course in P&P games. On the other hand, making parts of the combat very detailed while others are very abstract results in a big mess, which can be easily avoided by trying to keep a common level of abstraction between the sub-systems.

If you're just going to ignore the combat system, you are playing the wrong RPG. That poster Alex hates math because it ruins his game of Let's Pretend. That's totally fine, he's free to play a game with less restrictive rules. But then his criticism of saves and advantage/disadvantage is dumb. There are games which boil combat down into 1-2 skill checks, go ahead and play those. Complaining D&D combat rules are unrealistic usually belies an ignorance of those rules.

Reading books and learning rulesets is hard.

I don't have a problem with math, but if you want to play an abstract math game, play one; there are plenty of those, from Magic: the Gathering to Hero Quest to that Call of C'thulhu board game, to Settlers of Catan. There is no shortage of games like that. One of the specific differences of RPG games is exactly that the rules are subject to the imaginary world, rather than the other way around.
 

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