Crispy™ Define: "Hub based"

[rusty_shackleford]

There does not seem to be a consistent definition of this anywhere, and there seems to be multiple interpretations of what it means.

An example I came across:

a hub world is a world that is a hub

a hub based world is a world based on a hub

"Hub world" is a single hub with open-world in a hub-based game. i.e. one of the multiple smaller size open-worlds that are somehow connected.

Hub-world: a single small open-world map
Hub-based: Has multiple hub-worlds

…But I have no idea where they came up with that definition of "hub world". All definitions seems to point to a "hub world" being something like the overworld screen in many early Mario games.
https://www.giantbomb.com/hub-world/3015-1855/

Hub Worlds are worlds that connect different levels. Most often found in platforming games, the hub world can be considered the modern equivalent to the level select and map screens of old. Generally Hub worlds are based around one primary area, such as a castle or a town, however their are exceptions to this rule (For example see I-ninja.) While 3D games arguably popularized the format, it is by no means exclusive, 2D games with hubs also exist, such as Braid and Bubsy II.

The concept dates back to 005 (1981) and Dragon Buster (1984). The concept of a hub building (castle) first appeared in Sega's Castle of Illusion (1990), which inspired Super Mario 64 (1996), which in turn inspired later 3D games.

Hexen is described as having a "hub world" such as this in a 1997 review:

… The puzzles in Hexen involve many different worlds linked together by a central "Hub" world. Actions in each world open doors and solve puzzles in another world. Most puzzles involve finding switches in different worlds, and then trying to see the effects on the Hub world.

I think they're mistaken here in referring to it as a collection of "hub worlds" which adds to the confusion. It just has multiple hubs and as such the phrase "hub world" and "hub based" are entirely unrelated.
cf. https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=Hub

2. A center of activity or interest; a focal point: Hollywood is the hub of the US movie industry.

After scouring RPGCodex, here are some examples of games referred to as "hub based":

It's a hub based game like KOTOR 1/2 or Mass Effect.

Finished up the Director's Cut now. To me, this is one of the better RPGs I've played recently, and it'd rank pretty damn good on my all-time list also probably. The structure of it makes it different (the hub-based mission approach) than many RPGs but if one can accept that, then well... There's a lot to like it Dragonfall I think.

PoE is very much hub based.

Notably, BG1 is open world. BG2 is hub based. BG1's maps are all directly connected to each other.

Spoiler

So a "hub-based" game seems to be a game that has a collection of small, highly detailed, relatively open levels that are not directly connected to each other and you travel to them through an abstracted travel interface.
Thoughts?

 

[Tacgnol]

So a "hub-based" game seems to be a game that has a collection of small, highly detailed, relatively open levels that are not directly connected to each other and you travel to them through an abstracted travel interface.

Yeah, I'd say that's pretty accurate, though I don't think they necessarily have to have free travel between areas.

I've always defined hub based as: Small/medium zones, usually quite content dense and relatively open. Sometimes you have freedom to travel to these zones at will, but very often you get to them in a linear fashion with story progression.

 

[abija]

Think questing in WoW since burning crusade: https://i.imgur.com/EElTSHS.png

Instead of quests/missions being spread around, most are centralized in special spots for your convenience.

 

[JarlFrank]

I think of a hub as some sort of connective tissue that binds quests/areas together. Tomb Raider 4's levels are often hub based, especially the Alexandria levels (which has hubs within hubs). Thief 3 connects its missions through the hub of the city streets level. Deus Ex is heavily hub based.

In those games, the hub level is a level from which you access all the other levels. TR4's Alexandria is a great example, there are several levels to explore and they are all accessed by exploring different ruins located on the same map.
In Deus Ex, Hong Kong is the most well-regarded hub level.

 

[mondblut]

So a "hub-based" game seems to be a game that has a collection of small, highly detailed, relatively open levels that are not directly connected to each other and you travel to them through an abstracted travel interface.
Thoughts?

What anything of that has to do with hubs?

A "hub" is something that has "spokes". Meaning a central location where all quests, shops and shit are, connected to a bunch of secondary levels where the hub sends you to do quests. Once you run out of quests and spokes to explore, you move over to the next hub, rinse and repeat. Normally there is no reason to revisit a given hub once you run out of content in there.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

A "hub" is something that has "spokes".

I included a definition for "hub" in my post. There are two separate definitions which is what leads to the confusion.

 

[Chaosdwarft]

A Hub (in games) is a geographical place where all or most of the game areas can be accessed. /thread

 

[Burning Bridges]

It's in a hub.

A hub girl is like a tub girl, but in a hub.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

hubs are places which host most (if not all) of the quest givers and tools needed for accessory activities. monster hunter world is hub based. diablo is hub based. angband is hub based.

 

[JarlFrank]

 

[DalekFlay]

When I think "hub" I think of a non-combat area like a base from where you go out on linear missions. After the mission you go back to the hub, stock up and discuss, then go to another mission from the same hub. I don't think consecutive "open but not too open" areas qualify, in my head, as the same thing. Deus Ex is kind of both though, Hell's Kitchen being a kind of open RPGing area itself, but also being a "hub" for several missions outside of it. It's all semantics in the end anyway, like most of these gameplay terms (including "RPG" itself).

 

[Wyatt_Derp]

It's in a hub.

A hub girl is like a tub girl, but in a hub.

Hub-Tub girl. Enjoy with butter and honey.

Spoiler

 

[Raapys]

Was this ever really unclear?

We should be using this time to define RPG instead.

 

[Gregz]

I included a definition for "hub" in my post. There are two separate definitions which is what leads to the confusion.

Right, so the travel definition of "hub" is pretty well defined in your post.

So a "hub-based" game seems to be a game that has a collection of small, highly detailed, relatively open levels that are not directly connected to each other and you travel to them through an abstracted travel interface.

The more traditional use of the word "hub" is to describe a central location that you frequently return to for resources and services. Diablo I's Tristram is the best example I can think of.

 

[Ninjerk]

I'm thinking of SR:DF, SR:HK, KotOR, etc.

I wonder if it might be easier to think of RPGs that are NOT hub-based.

 

[mondblut]

I wonder if it might be easier to think of RPGs that are NOT hub-based.

There is more to "a hub" than being a peaceful place with services, though.

Basically, hubs-driven design in a computer game signifies that the worldbuilding is secondary to the narrative, with hubs for all practical purposes making up convenient "chapters" in the story. Even when you are technically not restricted from going anywhere in the world at any time, you are strongly encouraged to gobble the content in hub-sized chunks beginning from the one nearmost to the starting point. A plenty of RPGs do not emphasize this model of mapping content, their levels being self-contained and not organized around specific key areas.

 

[Murk]

rusty_shackleford is there a high-res version of the combined world map for BG1 you posted?

On topic,

So here's a question -- Arcanum more or less works like BG 2 where there's a ton of "world" that you don't care about with a few high-density content areas.... but unlike BG 2, where the majority of the overworld is inaccessible, in Arcanum you can walk literally every inch (and it is actually pretty consistent -- you can't bypass mountain ranges save for a few glitched or intended passes).

Is Arcanum a hub world, hub based, or just an open world with a lot of empty space that is conveniently made bypassable?

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS

OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD THE BEST EXAMPLE OF A HUB BASED GAME IS DEMON SOULS

MONSTER HUNTER TO

DIABLO I GUESS BUT THE HUB HAS ONE DESTINATION

AN EARLY EXAMPLE IS MEGAMAN WITH A MENU HUB

ARCANUM IS NOT HUBBASED THERE IS NO RESONABLE ARGUMENT

.
A Hub (in games) is a geographical place where all or most of the game areas can be accessed. /thread

.

LOLOLLLOL HE WINS BROS

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I think of a hub as some sort of connective tissue that binds quests/areas together. Tomb Raider 4's levels are often hub based, especially the Alexandria levels (which has hubs within hubs). Thief 3 connects its missions through the hub of the city streets level. Deus Ex is heavily hub based.

In those games, the hub level is a level from which you access all the other levels. TR4's Alexandria is a great example, there are several levels to explore and they are all accessed by exploring different ruins located on the same map.
In Deus Ex, Hong Kong is the most well-regarded hub level.

Thief 3 is identical to the first two Thief games in that it consists of a series of missions, each in a discrete zone, that must be completed in order, with the addition of the city itself merely offering a diversion between missions. For that matter, the bulk of Deus Ex has the same structure as the first two Thief games, although parts of the game offer New York City and Hong Kong neighborhoods as hubs with optional side content.

Is Arcanum a hub world, hub based, or just an open world with a lot of empty space that is conveniently made bypassable?

Arcanum is similar to Daggerfall in that it contains an Open World so large that it is self-defeating (though a less extreme case than Daggerfall's), and travel between locations is made feasible only by relying on fast travel via the world map. However, in sharp contrast to Daggerfall's procedurally-generated towns and dungeons (and quests!), Arcanum relies on a relatively small number of hand-crafted towns and other locations, with a few of the settlements each containing a substantial number of quests, and therefore could be considered to have adopted Fallout's hub-based model with the addition of a superficial Open World that is extraneous.

 

[Nutmeg]

The obvious definition is a graph where one veetex has disproportinately more edges than others. This vertex is the "hub".

Don't know why this is a conundrum.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Don't know why this is a conundrum.

There's already like 4 different definitions in this thread alone.

 

[mondblut]

Don't know why this is a conundrum.

There's already like 4 different definitions in this thread alone.

But only one is correct.

 

[mondblut]

Is Arcanum a hub world, hub based, or just an open world with a lot of empty space that is conveniently made bypassable?

It's a hub world with filler space added as a gimmick nobody ever uses.

You do the first village with associated quests and areas, proceed to second town and do it with associated quests and areas, ad nauseum.

 

[Murk]

Is Arcanum a hub world, hub based, or just an open world with a lot of empty space that is conveniently made bypassable?

It's a hub world with filler space added as a gimmick nobody ever uses.

You do the first village with associated quests and areas, proceed to second town and do it with associated quests and areas, ad nauseum.

You can find "secret" areas in the overworld just by going over them, and some -- as best as I can tell can only be found this way. Similar to Fallout 1/2.

It has just enough to buck the technical definition. Compare that to say BG 2 which won't let you just hang out in the space between towns unless a random encounter happens.

Also you left out the most important part of Arcanum in your synopsis -- going in circles and rummaging through trash bins for molotov cocktail ingredients.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

The best example I've seen of a hub is also the first one I recall: The first chapter of Hexen. (There's a 'prologue' level of sorts that comes first, but it leads to the first chapter.)

The setup of this 'hub' is that there's one central map with seven doors; three on each side and then one master entrance/exit. Beyond each of the six side doors is a short series of rooms and then a portal that leads to one of three different element-themed maps, with two portals leading to each map, to different locations in each map.

The layout of the central hub map is very close to a thing with spokes on it, but eventually (and I think this bit is important) the player departs the hub and moves on, until he reaches another hub which restarts and repeats the process all over again.

The fact that the hub and its exits/entrances is stationary is what seperates it from a nexus, which is a far better description for areas such as Tristam in Diablo, the Pocket Dimension in Baldur's Gate 2 and similar such places where everything the player might need is easily accessible and within reach.