Planescape torment vs FF7 story?

[Silentstorm]

Planescape Torment has better writing no doubt, doesn't help that FF7's translation(at least in the original PSX release) was awful.

Still a fun game at the time and i can see why it became so huge, but the story was pretty meh.

 

[Shaewaroz]

In Codex it's in vogue to bash FF7, but it has a really good story and interesting characters. PST for most people can be a more profound and thought-provoking experience, but it has a much higher threshold for newcomers. But FF7, while not as thought-provoking, has a very impactful and well-crafted story and best NPCs of any JRPG ever. So both are great stories and I could go either way.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

In Codex it's in vogue to bash FF7, but it has a really good story and interesting characters.

I've been bashing FF7 since 1997, both for its hideous graphics and for its discombobulated storyline.

 

[Hyperion]

Trick question, it's Lost Odyssey for A Thousand Years of Dreams.

 

[Alex]

From what i've heard Xenogears,Suikoden 2,FF tactics,Persona 2,Tactics Ogre and Trails in the Sky are the best jrpg's storywise.

I don't remember shit about FF7 story,it's all confusing nonsense.

What? I thought FF7 has the best story out of all the JRPGs?

It does! Quality in plot, theme and characterization in JRPGs is incredibly consistent.



Consistently awful, that is.

 

[True Ukrainian]

FF7 has an OK plot, but it has been very badly overrated, no thanks to Squeenix milking the franchise like no tomorrow.

 

[Sigourn]

FFVII is a cheap emotional cashgrab while PS:T has a more poignant philosophical story.

Make of that as you will, but there's a reason JRPG fans don't play PS:T. It's simply not the kind of story that popularized JRPGs, as opposed to FFVII's narrative driven by raw emotions (love and anger) and nothing else.

 

[Ysaye]

I find Planescape Torment is like one of the more recent episodes of Doctor Who (eg. where Steven Moffatt as a writer) where it is basically get a story based around one of the sections in "101 Philosophical Concepts/Problems for Armchair Enthusiasts" (probably the section on Nietzsche's demon trap thought experiment) badly crafted into being the central theme of an "Avante Garde" fantasy game.

Final Fantasy 7 story is just boring environmental feelies stuff; it would have been much more interesting if the main character had been Sephiroth (and you had the chance to have your way with both Aerith and Tifa at the same time and then) go on a rampage to destroy Shinra and find out who you really are and ascend to godhood....but then it would just be a loosely steampunky version of Baldurs Gate plot wouldn't it? Anyway maybe they should do this for the remake- I might by the game then.

 

[MajorMace]

The game with the most similar story to Planescape Torment is...

Soul Reaver
Even from the same era actually.
Although it's not the story that's similar but rather the tone and atmosphere of the general setting.

 

[Shadenuat]

jrpg torment is NieR Gestalt afaik

 

[Grampy_Bone]

FFVII is a cheap emotional cashgrab while PS:T has a more poignant philosophical story.

Make of that as you will, but there's a reason JRPG fans don't play PS:T. It's simply not the kind of story that popularized JRPGs, as opposed to FFVII's narrative driven by raw emotions (love and anger) and nothing else.

<---- JRPG fan who plays and enjoys both.

Average console gamer didn't have PC back in the day ($1000-2000 for a "gaming toy," unless mom and dad already had one). I enjoy Torment more but FF7 wins on epicness and scale. Full 3d battles and CG cutscenes were the main selling points. FF7 was advertised on television (totally unheard of for CRPG). The game was really embarrassing for western devs, it sold more than anyone thought was even *possible* for an RPG. (Or pale imitation of RPG, as some would say). Make no mistake, everyone in the business noticed and they ALL wanted to achieve the same success.

While Torment has the better story, MCA "deconstruction" isn't for everyone, pretty much by definition. In a way FF7 is more subversive because it sets up Cloud as the "Impossibly cool badass action hero merc who plays by his own rules"... who turns out to be a complete poser. Nameless One is The Most Interesting Man In the Multiverse; everything in the game revolves around you. FF7 is about a grunt with delusions of grandeur who rises above his limitations.

 

[Sigourn]

The game with the most similar story to Planescape Torment is...

Soul Reaver
Even from the same era actually.
Although it's not the story that's similar but rather the tone and atmosphere of the general setting.

Agree. One franchise I would have loved to see in Action RPG form.

 

[Sigourn]

<---- JRPG fan who plays and enjoys both.

I knew someone would jump in and say that given this IS RPG Codex after all and we are in the JRPG subforum. But the truth is JRPG fans, and by that I mean the same people who think all western RPGs are Mass Effect and Skyrim (i.e. ignorant of everything else) simply don't care about PS:T.

I feel like comparing Final Fantasy VII with cRPGs simply isn't fair. We are talking about completely different industries with different budgets, i.e. PC vs console, and from a developer that had already made SIX Final Fantasy titles already. Square simply knew the game would sell. Something as heavy on the prose and short on the spectacle as Planescape: Torment will always alienate players.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

I feel like comparing Final Fantasy VII with cRPGs simply isn't fair.

Yeah, probably not.

However I do think Planescape would have sold more had it been available on consoles, though obviously the core gameplay would need to be redesigned. Console gamers are often just poor gamers (as I was growing up), they can't play games that don't exist on their platform.

 

[ChaDargo]

As others have said, people knew what to expect from FF7, both because of 6 prior games (particularly FF6), and because of a huge marketing campaign (iirc). I didn't play console RPG's at all and even I knew what it was. When I got PST as a kid, I was expecting some sort of weird/creepy Baldur's Gate. It was sort of like I had bought a game expecting Quake, but got Myst instead. I think subverted expectations can really hurt a game, especially one that's (awkwardly) trying something new.

 

[Hyperion]

FF7 is about a grunt with delusions of grandeur who rises above his limitations.

I don't really give a damn about this discussion of FF7 v. Planescape because it's just stupid, but this is a complete swing and a miss on what FF7 is about. Cloud may be the protagonist of the game, but he's only one of many threads in the game who is coincidentally the lead as a byproduct of being a failed Sepiroth clone. The game is all about environmentalism (AVALANCHE are ecoterrorists willing to sacrifice human life*), anti-corporate interests, and the dangers of unrestricted, unethical scientific expansion. Meteor and the weapons are just a metaphor for the Earth righting the wrongs mankind has done on it by siphoning Mako, and Hojo's ridiculous experiments.

* The remake has even neutered this aspect, and made sure to slam it in everyone's face Shinra are the bad guys by making the damage from the intro bombing seem worse than it is.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Stories can be about multiple things. The game is also about dealing with grief. Yes, and environmentalism.

Cloud's personal demons and storyline take up a significant chunk of the narrative, and him working out his baggage is intrinsic in confronting the villain.

 

[Haplo]

In Codex it's in vogue to bash FF7, but it has a really good story and interesting characters. PST for most people can be a more profound and thought-provoking experience, but it has a much higher threshold for newcomers. But FF7, while not as thought-provoking, has a very impactful and well-crafted story and best NPCs of any JRPG ever. So both are great stories and I could go either way.

I agree. Also, regarding gameplay, FF VII is loaded with crazy/difficult to reach/over the top bosses/side areas/secret powers/combos.

I can't remember any other game which had such a huge gap between simply casually finishing it and discovering/beating 100%. The gap is such that a regular attack/spell might do 9999 damage late game. But certain secret moves can do 12x9999! Certain materia lets you copy the last ability used... To reach some of these hidden places, you need to breed like 3 new mount races first... And certain hidden bosses can 1HKO the whole party!

 

[Lord of Riva]

having sex vs. playing video games ?

Why ask a question of things that are unrelated even more if you can have both, even at the same time if you want to.

 

[Doktor Best]

From what i've heard Xenogears,Suikoden 2,FF tactics,Persona 2,Tactics Ogre and Trails in the Sky are the best jrpg's storywise.

I don't remember shit about FF7 story,it's all confusing nonsense.

What? I thought FF7 has the best story out of all the JRPGs?

i've played suikoden 1 recently and the story is way better than FF7,not even close.Even Vagrant Story(a game i didn't like)have better story than FF7.

FF7 story is average to good.

But anyway,i think you're just trolling,so...

No I'm not trolling, I was serious, but if FF7's story isn't actually that great, then... idk.
It's just that over the years everyone kept saying FF7's story was good, not here, other places, and some people I knew said the same thing, so I thought it was considered pretty good.

The thing about FF7s storyline is that it sort of revolutionized story presentation. You went from textboxes in FF6 to full fletched ingame and CGI cutscenes in FF7.

Nowadays this is just business as usual and you could even argue that FF7 is a decline enabler if you are one of those who hate any sort of cinematic storytelling, but back then everyone creamed their pants about it.

Other than that? Yeah its style over substance. It has an awesome soundtrack though.

 

[aweigh]

Earthbound is better than both ^_^

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Ever since I was a kid I always felt Jenova and Hojo were twenty times more interesting and cool than the dude in a black skirt.

 

[Haplo]

From what i've heard Xenogears,Suikoden 2,FF tactics,Persona 2,Tactics Ogre and Trails in the Sky are the best jrpg's storywise.

I don't remember shit about FF7 story,it's all confusing nonsense.

What? I thought FF7 has the best story out of all the JRPGs?

i've played suikoden 1 recently and the story is way better than FF7,not even close.Even Vagrant Story(a game i didn't like)have better story than FF7.

FF7 story is average to good.

But anyway,i think you're just trolling,so...

No I'm not trolling, I was serious, but if FF7's story isn't actually that great, then... idk.
It's just that over the years everyone kept saying FF7's story was good, not here, other places, and some people I knew said the same thing, so I thought it was considered pretty good.

The thing about FF7s storyline is that it sort of revolutionized story presentation. You went from textboxes in FF6 to full fletched ingame and CGI cutscenes in FF7.

Nowadays this is just business as usual and you could even argue that FF7 is a decline enabler if you are one of those who hate any sort of cinematic storytelling, but back then everyone creamed their pants about it.

Other than that? Yeah its style over substance. It has an awesome soundtrack though.

The "style" sure was rich for its time. But I'd argue there was plenty of "substance" also. The gameplay was rich, materia combinations ingenious, exploration extremely rewarding - and not limited to corridors and mazes. The real decline started with FF X IMO.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I'd argue FFVIII was the beginning of the end. I never played FFIX, but people swear by it being good so maybe it was a momentary relapse before everything went full gay with FFX.

But FFVIII was one real shitshow of a game. Junctioning sucked, Drawing spells was mind numbing, enemies auto-leveled to you, the story was hot garbage, the characters were almost all charisma vacuums. The only decent JERK OFF material in that game was the hot blonde dominatrix teacher that the main character ignores the advances of to get with his rival's sloppy seconds. Fucking dweeb.

You could even tell with the story they had no real clue with what the fuck they were doing. Now FF games aren't masterclasses of storytelling (though I did love Tactics), but holy high priest was FFVIII trash. Think of how many FF games start you off with a big hook, actually think of how many Square games in general would do this. FFVII has you blow up a huge reactor, FFIV has you purge the town of a mist dragon, Tactics has you and some soldiers have a cool climatic feeling battle outside a monastery during a rainy night, even Vagrant Story has you beat the shit out of a big wyvern.

In FFVIII? You start the game by... going to class. LOL. Yeah, that'll hook 'em. The opening FMV your hero gets his ass handed to him, and he goes to school. Hahaha, I'm surprised they didn't have him eat his Lunchables or some shit in an FMV. What a loser. But it's a good opening only because it sets the tone for the player to not expect anything good from this game ever. I guess it succeeds in that aspect.

 

[Doktor Best]

From what i've heard Xenogears,Suikoden 2,FF tactics,Persona 2,Tactics Ogre and Trails in the Sky are the best jrpg's storywise.

I don't remember shit about FF7 story,it's all confusing nonsense.

What? I thought FF7 has the best story out of all the JRPGs?

i've played suikoden 1 recently and the story is way better than FF7,not even close.Even Vagrant Story(a game i didn't like)have better story than FF7.

FF7 story is average to good.

But anyway,i think you're just trolling,so...

No I'm not trolling, I was serious, but if FF7's story isn't actually that great, then... idk.
It's just that over the years everyone kept saying FF7's story was good, not here, other places, and some people I knew said the same thing, so I thought it was considered pretty good.

The thing about FF7s storyline is that it sort of revolutionized story presentation. You went from textboxes in FF6 to full fletched ingame and CGI cutscenes in FF7.

Nowadays this is just business as usual and you could even argue that FF7 is a decline enabler if you are one of those who hate any sort of cinematic storytelling, but back then everyone creamed their pants about it.

Other than that? Yeah its style over substance. It has an awesome soundtrack though.

The "style" sure was rich for its time. But I'd argue there was plenty of "substance" also. The gameplay was rich, materia combinations ingenious, exploration extremely rewarding - and not limited to corridors and mazes. The real decline started with FF X IMO.

I was only talking about the storytelling. Gameplaywise i agree it has a lot of meat, although it is a bit too easy for my taste.