Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Anyone that asks if a lich can become good should be told to fuck off.

 

[fantadomat]

Anyone that asks if a lich can become good should be told to fuck off.

But why are liches bad? They are just mages that became undead,if anything they should be true neutral that doesn't give a fuck about anything.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Anyone that asks if a lich can become good should be told to fuck off.

But why are liches bad? They are just mages that became undead,if anything they should be true neutral that doesn't give a fuck about anything.

The process of becoming a lich usually involves committing monstrous acts as part of the ritual.

D&D has good liches as a thing in its canon, but dunno about Pathfinder.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

But why are liches bad? They are just mages that became undead,if anything they should be true neutral that doesn't give a fuck about anything.

They have to do some pretty bad stuff when it comes to becoming a lich, IIRC. It's basically some borderline Satanic shit like drinking a slaughtered baby's blood that you yourself killed.

And also I prefer encountering a lich to feel like a big "oh shit, I'm fucked" moment. I don't want to discuss their day or talk about politics, I want them to ruin my existence and require multiple reloads while cackling like a skeletal asshole.

 

[frajaq]

remember to vote for ratfolk

 

[Reinhardt]

Liches are malnourished hobos living in sewers and shitty taverns.

Basically rats.

 

[Xamenos]

Anyone that asks if a lich can become good should be told to fuck off.

But why are liches bad? They are just mages that became undead,if anything they should be true neutral that doesn't give a fuck about anything.

Undead in Pathfinder, and DnD, lore are powered by Negative Energy, the antithesis of life. Intelligent undead also have their spirit forcefully bound to their body so it can keep functioning in a twisted mockery of life. The process tends to warp one's personality, a bit.

But why are liches bad? They are just mages that became undead,if anything they should be true neutral that doesn't give a fuck about anything.

They have to do some pretty bad stuff when it comes to becoming a lich, IIRC. It's basically some borderline Satanic shit like drinking a slaughtered baby's blood that you yourself killed.

And also I prefer encountering a lich to feel like a big "oh shit, I'm fucked" moment. I don't want to discuss their day or talk about politics, I want them to ruin my existence and require multiple reloads while cackling like a skeletal asshole.

Yes, liches were so much better when they had to be L17 casters. 3.5 ruined them with that template that requires only a CL11. And Vordakai in the original Adventure Path was a disgrace, he'd atrophied to be only a Wizard 9.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Liches are malnourished hobos living in sewers and shitty taverns.

Basically rats.

Big talk from someone in time stop distance!

 

[Reinhardt]

Liches are malnourished hobos living in sewers and shitty taverns.

Basically rats.

Big talk from someone in time stop distance!

Big talk from someone who spawned in the middle of spike traps field.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Liches are malnourished hobos living in sewers and shitty taverns.

Basically rats.

Big talk from someone in time stop distance!

Big talk from someone who spawned in the middle of spike traps field.

Big talk for someone who wasted his only chance on a Project image!

 

[Reinhardt]

his only chance

I already grabbed Daystar from the coffin.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Vote Kitsune. Make love, not biological weapons!

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Vote Kitsune. Make love, not biological weapons!

Embrace the pla-... the ratfolk, furfag.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

his only chance

Daystar.

You mean the Instant Fake I prepared?

 

[Reinhardt]

Vote Ratfolk and lick your friendly neighborhood Chinese today!

 

[BarbequeMasta]

I'll take my chances with the rats...

 

[Reinhardt]

his only chance

Daystar.

You mean the Instant Fake I prepared?

Keldorn.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

But why are liches bad? They are just mages that became undead,if anything they should be true neutral that doesn't give a fuck about anything.

They have to do some pretty bad stuff when it comes to becoming a lich, IIRC. It's basically some borderline Satanic shit like drinking a slaughtered baby's blood that you yourself killed.

And also I prefer encountering a lich to feel like a big "oh shit, I'm fucked" moment. I don't want to discuss their day or talk about politics, I want them to ruin my existence and require multiple reloads while cackling like a skeletal asshole.

At most you can as Lich is being neutral because of the whole destroying souls and shit in relation to maintaining phylactery.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

 

[BarbequeMasta]

I wonder if changing alignement after choosing a mythic path will remove/affect it in a way or the other.

 

[fantadomat]

Anyone that asks if a lich can become good should be told to fuck off.

But why are liches bad? They are just mages that became undead,if anything they should be true neutral that doesn't give a fuck about anything.

Undead in Pathfinder, and DnD, lore are powered by Negative Energy, the antithesis of life. Intelligent undead also have their spirit forcefully bound to their body so it can keep functioning in a twisted mockery of life. The process tends to warp one's personality, a bit.

But why are liches bad? They are just mages that became undead,if anything they should be true neutral that doesn't give a fuck about anything.

They have to do some pretty bad stuff when it comes to becoming a lich, IIRC. It's basically some borderline Satanic shit like drinking a slaughtered baby's blood that you yourself killed.

And also I prefer encountering a lich to feel like a big "oh shit, I'm fucked" moment. I don't want to discuss their day or talk about politics, I want them to ruin my existence and require multiple reloads while cackling like a skeletal asshole.

Yes, liches were so much better when they had to be L17 casters. 3.5 ruined them with that template that requires only a CL11. And Vordakai in the original Adventure Path was a disgrace, he'd atrophied to be only a Wizard 9.

Hmmm i haven't seen that doing evil part. Here is the pathfinder wiki:

Becoming a lich
While most sentient creatures find the idea of becoming a lich abhorrent, certain spellcasters see it as a means of achieving immortality in order to continue their work and ambitions without having to worry about the eventual decay of their mind and body. The process itself is a quite difficult and lengthy one, as no two liches achieve their undead state by the same method. The spellcaster must first research the construction of a phylactery, and then discover the means by which to transfer their soul into the receptacle. As no two bodies or souls are the same, each of these processes are unique to the individual; what has worked in the past might kill or drive another person insane. What can be predicted is that researching the process is expensive in the extreme, requiring the expenditure of hundreds of thousands of gold pieces, and requires months, years, or even decades of research.[2]

More or less is about throwing money and bonding your soul to the phylactery. I don't see how doing something evil could make you in to lich. Now if you are doing the will of your evil god and the reward is becoming lich fine. But i don't see how arcanely speaking making the ritual needs for you to be evil,it is like saying only evil people could make steam engines. Also negative energy is not a moral alignment,sure it could fuck you up,but that shouldn't make your alignment.

 

[fantadomat]

Liches are malnourished hobos living in sewers and shitty taverns.

Basically rats.

Big talk from someone in time stop distance!

Big talk from someone who spawned in the middle of spike traps field.

Big talk for someone who wasted his only chance on a Project image!

Big talk from people infront of my divine circular saw! Begone vermin!!!

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Anyone that asks if a lich can become good should be told to fuck off.

Nonsense, there are good and bad liches just like there are good movies and bad ones.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

Liches are malnourished hobos living in sewers and shitty taverns.

Basically rats.

Big talk from someone in time stop distance!

Big talk from someone who spawned in the middle of spike traps field.

Big talk for someone who wasted his only chance on a Project image!

Big talk from people infront of my divine circular saw! Begone vermin!!!

Jokes's on you, I was originally a gnome so I walk under it! (God damn it I hate being a gnome, why you do this to me?)

 

[Luckmann]

Also negative energy is not a moral alignment,sure it could fuck you up,but that shouldn't make your alignment.

For the longest fucking time, I assumed that Necromancy was evil because it channeled Negative Energy, and I believed that this was the same reason why Evil Clerics only could channel Negative Energy (and vice versa), and so on. But then it turned out that no, in D&D, Forgotten Realms, and Pathfinder/Golarion, since pretty much fucking forever (I had to dig deep for some of the references), Negative Energy (and Positive Energy) are explicitly not aligned forces.

And ever since I learned that, I have no idea where the idea that virtually all Necromancy spells are intrinsically Evil stems from. It's in the rules, sure enough, but I'm not sure what the logic is, especially since in many settings, you don't really fuck around with living souls, either. Even Create Undead and shit like that are basically just animated force, not like in some settings where you rip people from the afterlife by force. Many basic-bitch undead in Pathfinder are even Neutral, not even Neutral Evil (although those raised by necromancy are classified as Neutral Evil... again, for some reason).

It's easily addressed by just flat-out stating that Negative Energy, as an entropic force, is inherently "Evil" or something, but none of the big dicks ever do or did. It's how I'd handle it, at least. Or something to that effect. I'm perfectly fine with Liches being inherently Evil. I just want an explanation as to why in the context of the universe.

It bothers me more than it should.