Warhammer Total War: Warhammer 2

[AgentFransis]

If they change this it would just further gimp melee combat, which is already worse on >normal battle difficulty due to the AI's MA and LD buffs.

If you run ranged-only stacks you don't need replenishment, this would have to be accompanied with an ammunition supply system.

Good point but then the game starts turning into Hearts of Iron. The ideal solution would be for the AI to adapt and start to build stacks to specifically counter what you have, but obviously that's hard.

 

[Parabalus]

Incidentally no building conversion will also be a very big nerf

I'm worried this will slow down the game tremendously for the player.

Them describing the new difficulties as multiple speeds doesn't really sit well with me.

If they change this it would just further gimp melee combat, which is already worse on >normal battle difficulty due to the AI's MA and LD buffs.

If you run ranged-only stacks you don't need replenishment, this would have to be accompanied with an ammunition supply system.

Good point but then the game starts turning into Hearts of Iron. The ideal solution would be for the AI to adapt and start to build stacks to specifically counter what you have, but obviously that's hard.

They'd have to stop the AI from clumping so hard, and eliminate corner camping, it's not an issue that can be fixed with army composition.

Aside from monster mash, but that's even tougher to deal with with melee armies.

 

[Average Manatee]

Incidentally no building conversion will also be a very big nerf

I'm worried this will slow down the game tremendously for the player.

Them describing the new difficulties as multiple speeds doesn't really sit well with me.

I think its going to slow down tomb kings tremendously since they actually rely on all of those buildings for unit cap increases, but everyone else can just use global recruitment or even lords that ferry units in now that supply lines don't penalize having a few extra lords around. Strategies based around simply camping the home province for 50 turns and farming massive XP from rebels only to capture a bunch of level 4 settlements with fully upgraded buildings will be nerfed but once you have those upgraded buildings you'll only really be missing out on a few income structures. Since Public Order is being changed the lack of capturable public order buildings shouldn't be too bad.

 

[AgentFransis]

Incidentally no building conversion will also be a very big nerf

I'm worried this will slow down the game tremendously for the player.

Them describing the new difficulties as multiple speeds doesn't really sit well with me.

If they change this it would just further gimp melee combat, which is already worse on >normal battle difficulty due to the AI's MA and LD buffs.

If you run ranged-only stacks you don't need replenishment, this would have to be accompanied with an ammunition supply system.

Good point but then the game starts turning into Hearts of Iron. The ideal solution would be for the AI to adapt and start to build stacks to specifically counter what you have, but obviously that's hard.

They'd have to stop the AI from clumping so hard, and eliminate corner camping, it's not an issue that can be fixed with army composition.

Aside from monster mash, but that's even tougher to deal with with melee armies.

Well yeah the battle AI could be smarter. But even having the AI simply build a full cav or fliers stack that will immediately spread out and charge you can be effective, even if you corner camp. AI should also try to ambush heavily ranged stacks as much as possible.

 

[Maculo]

I am intrigued by the rebalance, although I doubt it will change SP combat much. The higher difficulty levels just seem to favor ranged units due to combat buffs/debuffs, and I just wish CA implemented something to balance out the ranged vs. non-ranged unit dynamic. For example, if CA experimented with reducing ranged units accuracy (I think CTT did this) based on difficulty level. Furthermore, if certain low-tier melee units received more benefit from replenishment and/or were even harder to destroy/break after a battle. Technically, nothing stops you from fielding more non-ranged or non-optimal units, but Shades are just so efficient.

Also, I cannot tell if these changes would make Malus easier or a complete slog. With 40% ward save, he can mulch low-tier armies. At the same time, potions will be harder to chug, because post-battle loot, slaves, and income buildings would provide less income. Furthermore, recruitment costs are supposedly increased further.

 

[Parabalus]

For example, if CA experimented with reducing ranged units accuracy (I think CTT did this) based on difficulty level.

Not sure I like this approach, since it makes blobbing the AI even more appealing, accuracy matters little in those cases, while making sniping lords harder.

 

[Average Manatee]

I barely noticed any difference in CTT accuracy unless shooting a single entity unit. Simply removing the melee buffs/debuffs and buffing the AI HP would be simple and nerf ranged and magic together.

 

[Maculo]

Not sure I like this approach, since it makes blobbing the AI even more appealing, accuracy matters little in those cases, while making sniping lords harder.

My thought it that AOE magic would counter blobbing, but I don't want to pretend that nerfing ranged accuracy is some magic solution. At the end of the day, the best solution is for CA to make a better AI.

Ultimately, I just want something to shake up the balance between ranged units and non-ranged units, and give low-tier infantry a better niche.

I barely noticed any difference in CTT accuracy unless shooting a single entity unit. Simply removing the melee buffs/debuffs and buffing the AI HP would be simple and nerf ranged and magic together.

I will reload CTT when I have a chance. I recall that arrows were less accurate, but perhaps CTT just toned down ranged damage. It is a great mod, and I wish I tried it earlier.

 

[Average Manatee]

Playing a bit as Balthazar now on the WIP patch. Thoughts:

- If supply lines are going to be 0% then all of the lord traits probably need to be rebalanced so there isn't stuff like +10% local province income in it, or else having dozens of lords to stack the effects of specific traits will be stupid. And this is just the kind of trait the Empire has, I know other races have much more abusable ones.
- Buildings and unit recruitment are definitely noticeably more expensive and provinces are slower to grow. In particular this is going to make losing a settlement level due to being occupied much more punishing. THANKFULLY major settlements (at least for empire) now get upgraded walls at tiers 2-4 rather than tiers 3-4, so you can make really think, meaty defenses that have a good chance to hold out against a decent enemy stack almost immediately. UNFORTUNATELY minor settlements still only get their walls at tier 3, which is quite painful to reach with both slower growth and much more expensive tier 3 upgrades (5000 gold). The unit cost increase isn't nearly as big of a deal I think.
- I attacked the Vampires pretty quickly after clearing out the greenskins. Public Order is much nicer to manage now. Previously attacking the Von Carstein settlement and then going to Castle Drakenhof (a separate region) would be absolute hell since corruption in both meant constant rebel stacks. But this game I realized I could just hire a new lord, a guy with a +4 local public order trait (which would normally be considered trash, but in this special circumstance is good) and give him a few troops to keep up public order and defend. Almost feels like we're back to how Total War worked in the Medieval 2 era: you can invest a bit to get better defense and suppression, because as everyone who has defended with a garrison knows those garrisons just don't have enough guns.
- I'm not sure what's up with the AI. It seems a lot less aggressive. I'm not sure if the buffs on Legendary were lowered but its definitely taking longer to make the really huge stacks that it previously threw out at you every other turn. I'm OK with this because I like more variety in the size of battles than constant doomstacks.

 

[razvedchiki]

CTT balances artillery units by giving them a chance to blow up during a battle, on the other hand if they hit they hit really hard, 1 cannon ball can 1shot a giant.

 

[A horse of course]

Uhhhhh so from the player's perspective, which is "Fair" or "Balanced" or "Normal" difficulty then? Pretty dumb naming system. This shit has always annoyed me in Total War. I want "normal" or medium difficulty to always mean that player and AI have as much of a level playing field as possible. But CA inists on building the entire house of cards upon an unequal system where AI practically ignores things like corruption, attrition, diplomatic debuffs and so forth, to the point where if you actually sit down and mod out all the cheats, they AI literally doesn't understand how to deal with the most basic campaign challenges.

Difficulty restructure changes

• Experimental difficulty changes affecting not only challenge but also game speed
• Naming and function change for difficulty levels (please note these are not localised – they will only show up in English game versions)
  • Easy difficulty becomes New to Total War
  • Normal difficulty becomes Fast: A faster-paced Total War with cheaper recruitment and construction
  • Hard difficulty becomes Standard: A slower-paced Total War with more expensive recruitment and construction
  • Very Hard difficulty becomes Veteran: A slower-paced Total War with more expensive recruitment and construction and increased AI buffs
  • Legendary difficulty remains Legendary: A slower-paced Total War with more expensive recruitment and construction, increased AI buffs, no quick save, and battle realism
• Battle difficulty remains the same (even though the names changed)
• Reduced public order penalties for player at lower difficulty levels
• Reduced public order penalties based on ‘hostile’ corruption at lower difficulty levels
• Adjusted recruitment, construction and other bonuses for AI and player based on difficulty
• Modified starting treasury on lower difficulties
• Increased background income for all major factions (including player) on lower difficulties
• Reduced background income for all minor factions on lower difficulties

• AI Lords get additional experience based on difficulty

 

[Average Manatee]

Uhhhhh so from the player's perspective, which is "Fair" or "Balanced" or "Normal" difficulty then? Pretty dumb naming system. This shit has always annoyed me in Total War. I want "normal" or medium difficulty to always mean that player and AI have as much of a level playing field as possible. But CA inists on building the entire house of cards upon an unequal system where AI practically ignores things like corruption, attrition, diplomatic debuffs and so forth, to the point where if you actually sit down and mod out all the cheats, they AI literally doesn't understand how to deal with the most basic campaign challenges.

Over the past few patches CA has actually patched out a number of AI cheats. I don't think the AI cheats on any difficulty with regard to corruption or diplomacy now. Not sure about attrition but the AI can definitely take a lot of casualties even on the highest difficulty (and attrition isn't that bad for the player either if only for a turn or two), so I presume the AI plays by the same rules there as well.

The new naming system is maximum retardo though.

 

[zapotec]

Will these changes fix the ai walking around with 15 star dragons / necrofex and so on?

 

[razvedchiki]

there are a couple of mods that fix that, Closer to tabletop among others.
no point playing vanilla.

 

[Maculo]

I dabbled in the beta with Malus on Veteran/Veteran. Compared to live version, there is more pressure on gold/income for Malus (not a surprise) and I think the potion mechanic is in an awkward spot. For example, in my first attempt, I boxed myself in a little, because I purchased potions/units/upgrades and that left me with no money to colonize the ruins around Hag Graef. Selling Hag Graef for 20,000 is a drop in the bucket and makes even less sense now. The early black ark and Malus at 40% wardsave are amazing.

Potion chugging has more of a fiscal downside now without the construction cost reduction to offset it. Outside replenishment, I do not find potions all that essential, especially with public order being less of an issue. While the growth bonus is nice, I am not sure it comes as a priority compared to the other gold sinks now. The "problem" is not the potion effects or cost, but rather the rate you accumulate possession points now. The campaign is slower, yet the secondary resource/mechanics remain balanced around the pace of live.

Should these changes go live, then CA needs to also rebalance the secondary resources, mechanics, and dilemmas. Lords that gain secondary resources buffs (blood kiss, chivalry, vows, food, etc.) likely are going to be juiced-up, meanwhile Lords with debuffs will take a hit. For example, I could see Hellebron being dunked on.

 

[Average Manatee]

Yeah, I don't like to think about playing Malus now. Growth does not really seem that useful to stack a lot of extra ontop of the normal buildings with the new system, instead you need cash and -construction cost and Malus is the worst off due to paying for potions and not having great economic advantages like how Malekith can make a whole early game army on a budget. On the upside you can actually literally just use Malus as a lone wolf while all your armies are commanded by far better (and immediately available) Supreme Sorceresses of Fire. Malus can definitely clean up rebels or weakly defended settlements even without Tz'arkan.

Haven't tried but I expect Skaven are hilarious, you can have whole Skavenslave armies that cost 400 gold per turn + the lord. Similar for Skarsnik or Vampire counts.

I do think completely unlimited lords is both a bit OP and a bit annoying to manage. OP because you can just have single guys walking next to your army as bait while the main army lies in ambush and the AI ALWAYS falls for this. Annoying to manage because you simply end up moving 4 separate guys every time you want to move one army. It also means you get a ton more items.

It is nice that you can be advantaged by building budget armies though. And you can do stuff like make secondary lords with pure cavalry and cavalry buffs that tag along with your main army. In my Balthazar campaign I have my main army of infantry/archers/artillery led by an Arch Lector while Karl Franz leads what I like to call the "Bangbros" squad in support, which consists of him, 2 captains, 2 wizards, 2 priests, all on horse/flying and with 2 reiksguard, all leveled up and equipped solely to rape faces in melee, with another 2 Arch Lectors in support just for leveling to make later armies.

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

Can someone help me with this game ?

1) Installing additional content is a fucking chore. Is there an easy way out ? Half the time I just enter infinite loop of "click here to dl, get to website, website sends back to the dl link".

2) Even though I've played most Total Wars without problem (tho Shogun was and is still difficult), it seems I'm fucking horrible at this one. Nothing seems to work and I was playing at easy. It doesn't make sense. Did they change some major mechanics ? For example, I was doing the desert campaign as Bretonnians. I was barely able to have a decent army (two big stack) and was already deep in the red, losing money. Yet I couldn't beat people around me, because they had even bigger army ! Even when I tried the good old "control the battle, take cavalry, charge their leader", it didn't work out. It seems the economy in general is much harder and harsher. Am I missing something ?

Thanks.

 

[Parabalus]

2) Even though I've played most Total Wars without problem (tho Shogun was and is still difficult), it seems I'm fucking horrible at this one. Nothing seems to work and I was playing at easy. It doesn't make sense. Did they change some major mechanics ? For example, I was doing the desert campaign as Bretonnians. I was barely able to have a decent army (two big stack) and was already deep in the red, losing money. Yet I couldn't beat people around me, because they had even bigger army ! Even when I tried the good old "control the battle, take cavalry, charge their leader", it didn't work out. It seems the economy in general is much harder and harsher. Am I missing something ?

You will have to play most battles yourself here, AR is often unfavourable, even more if you don't have a ranged stack.

Best advice is to be proactive and try to never waste turns with your main lord, always be attacking.

E.g. first turn attack, recruit 3 knights, second turn attack and take city, 3 more knights, then attack and take city and so on, the AI will outresource you so you must be aggressive.

Can you win the first battle manually comfortably?

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

Yes I did win the first one easily (I sure hope, I was playing easy !). So what you are saying is that harrassing and constant pressure is more of a tactic in this game ? Or is it specific to the Bretonnians ?

 

[Maculo]

Can someone help me with this game ?

1) Installing additional content is a fucking chore. Is there an easy way out ? Half the time I just enter infinite loop of "click here to dl, get to website, website sends back to the dl link".

2) Even though I've played most Total Wars without problem (tho Shogun was and is still difficult), it seems I'm fucking horrible at this one. Nothing seems to work and I was playing at easy. It doesn't make sense. Did they change some major mechanics ? For example, I was doing the desert campaign as Bretonnians. I was barely able to have a decent army (two big stack) and was already deep in the red, losing money. Yet I couldn't beat people around me, because they had even bigger army ! Even when I tried the good old "control the battle, take cavalry, charge their leader", it didn't work out. It seems the economy in general is much harder and harsher. Am I missing something ?

Thanks.

Bretonnia’s economy takes time to build momentum in my opinion, especially once you have multiple farms/windmills.

What is your army composition? I would not discount peasants on easy/normal. Peasants are a cheap expendable swarm unit that can bulk up your army and tarpit units for your cavalry. Also, Peasant bowman are deceptively good imo.

Yes I did win the first one easily (I sure hope, I was playing easy !). So what you are saying is that harrassing and constant pressure is more of a tactic in this game ? Or is it specific to the Bretonnians ?

I would argue the key to Bretonnia is consistent cycle charging. Charge bonus damage lasts about 10 seconds (15?) after hitting an enemy, but you can pull cavalry back and charge again for the damage bonus. Rinse, repeat.

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

Can someone help me with this game ?

1) Installing additional content is a fucking chore. Is there an easy way out ? Half the time I just enter infinite loop of "click here to dl, get to website, website sends back to the dl link".

2) Even though I've played most Total Wars without problem (tho Shogun was and is still difficult), it seems I'm fucking horrible at this one. Nothing seems to work and I was playing at easy. It doesn't make sense. Did they change some major mechanics ? For example, I was doing the desert campaign as Bretonnians. I was barely able to have a decent army (two big stack) and was already deep in the red, losing money. Yet I couldn't beat people around me, because they had even bigger army ! Even when I tried the good old "control the battle, take cavalry, charge their leader", it didn't work out. It seems the economy in general is much harder and harsher. Am I missing something ?

Thanks.

Bretonnia’s economy takes time to build momentum in my opinion, especially once you have multiple farms/windmills.

What is your army composition? I would not discount peasants on easy/normal. Peasants are a cheap expendable swarm unit that can bulk up your army and tarpit units for your cavalry. Also, Peasant bowman are deceptively good imo.

I guess I was playing too much a "Rome Total War" mindset. Since they were (relatively) cheap, I only went with bigger unit such as knights. But they didn't seem to impact the AR and morale as much.

 

[Maculo]

I have heard from other Total War players that cavalry are less amazing or well rounded in TW:Warhammer.

In my opinion, you need to match your cavalry unit with its specialization, rear-charge, or use cavalry in tandem with a screen units (infantry). Bretonnia has cavalry that is anti-large, anti-infantry, armor piercing, and/or more general.

 

[Danikas]

Can someone help me with this game ?

One word: MAGIC

 

[Average Manatee]

Can someone help me with this game ?

1) Installing additional content is a fucking chore. Is there an easy way out ? Half the time I just enter infinite loop of "click here to dl, get to website, website sends back to the dl link".

Dunno, is this a steam issue?

2) Even though I've played most Total Wars without problem (tho Shogun was and is still difficult), it seems I'm fucking horrible at this one. Nothing seems to work and I was playing at easy. It doesn't make sense. Did they change some major mechanics ? For example, I was doing the desert campaign as Bretonnians. I was barely able to have a decent army (two big stack) and was already deep in the red, losing money. Yet I couldn't beat people around me, because they had even bigger army ! Even when I tried the good old "control the battle, take cavalry, charge their leader", it didn't work out. It seems the economy in general is much harder and harsher. Am I missing something ?

Thanks.

First off: check both battle and the campaign difficulty.

Second: The desert campaign as Bretonnia has you facing off against the Tomb Kings. Tomb Kings are very special and literally have zero cost for their armies but their armies are limited in quantity by their tech and their quality of troops are limited by their buildings. But every tomb king will pretty quickly build up 2 stacks of the trashiest units they can get.

In general Cavalry is kind of weird in Warhammer because its not just horses vs. infantry but infantry and horses can have massive power differentials and there's also monsters and other things to deal with. It also generally sucks in combat on harder difficulties due to how AI gets battle buffs but that shouldn't affect you on easy.

Also don't expect to kill leaders quickly with units. Even very strong cavalry or infantry simply can't deal damage quickly to single entity units. You use units to tie them up and have your own heros/lords wade into the melee to fight them. Due to how the game mechanics work having your infantry surround their lord while your lord fights their lord causes your lord to be much more durable since the infantry effectively soak damage.

EDIT: Also: most armies in Total War start with some higher tier units in their initial army than they can actually produce for a long time. Because of this if you can beat their initial army, or even lose but eliminate their stronger units, you can come back in a few turns and all they can produce is trash. This is particularly often the case for Tomb Kings.

EDIT2: Hold spacebar and you can turn on additional UI indicators. You might want to turn on the Threat Level indication, which lets you select a single one of your units and get a green/red indicator above enemy units that gives a rough idea of what you can beat and what beats you.

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

....

Thanks for the info.

Yes it seems it's Steam. When I open the game from Steam, it opens their goddawful launcher. I can either launch the game or click on store. If I click on store, I can click on the free DLC. If I do, it brings me to the Steam website. If I click on "download", it just load/boot the TWWH2 launcher (if it's still open, as it should, it does nothing). Infinite loop.

I know I was able to install one thing the other day by spam clicking every single link I could find, but I don't remember how I did it.