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Age of Decadence Reviews

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
Body Count is an amazing stat check that all other RPGs with combat should have.
Indeed, while Intimidation as a skill doesn't exist in AoD, Combat Prowess, Body Count and even being part of a [Guild/Faction] acted as amazing substitute to it.

A shame that Underrail severely underutilized its Intimidation skill despite the fact it unlocks Yell feats that can be very useful in combat.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,530
the camera was shit, yes. A problem they solved in colony ship by making a fixed camera angle and designing the areas with that camera in mind (like in ToEE).
It's a double-edged sword, actually. Somehow, I haven't problem with the camera in AoD and really appreciated overall design of all three big cities (I mean mostly from 2d perspective: disctircts, walls and everything). And I guess it could be possible to keep it more or less intact even with the fixed camera as well but the Pit from CSG looks very different in that regard and I'm not sure I like it.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
And I guess it could be possible to keep it more or less intact even with the fixed camera as well but the Pit from CSG looks very different in that regard and I'm not sure I like it.
Can you elaborate?

Vince called it trial and error, not me. :)
:thisisfine:
I wasn't talking about AoD but about all non-combat stats and skills use in general. Let's say you buy a new RPG tomorrow. You know more or less what to expect from STR, DEX, CON, and combat skills, but you have no idea what INT, CHA, diplomacy, etc mean. You have to experiment to find out how the non-combat stuff is designed because it differs wildly from one game to another.
 

Fenix

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
6,458
Location
Russia atchoum!
The guy who wrote it complained endlessly and then tried to get me fired by writing a nasty email to whoever's in charge of Iron Tower Studio.
:dead:
Fucking dying from laughter ahaha.
Last four pages reminded me why I love, why I enjoy Codex.

I think they wrote angry/negative revio because game didn't hold their hand like they expected, but continued to play it because they felt challenge - maybe for the first time in their life, and because they saw room for improvement i.e. the game system.
 
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jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,530
And I guess it could be possible to keep it more or less intact even with the fixed camera as well but the Pit from CSG looks very different in that regard and I'm not sure I like it.
Can you elaborate?
Maadoran looks fine from any possible angle. Teron and Gaanezzar (especially) are having more specific structure with higher/lower districts so it wouldn't be nice to lock the camera "from nothern approach" to any of them.

What I really meant is: The Pit looks a bit artificial though maybe it's only from my blurred by prev titles PoV. Overall cascade of heighs doesn't supported by lore yet (or did I missed something), so it looks weird in a sence. Framework by tons of containers is fine but it feels one-sided at the same time.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
Maadoran looks fine from any possible angle. Teron and Gaanezzar (especially) are having more specific structure with higher/lower districts so it wouldn't be nice to lock the camera "from nothern approach" to any of them.

What I really meant is: The Pit looks a bit artificial though maybe it's only from my blurred by prev titles PoV. Overall cascade of heighs doesn't supported by lore yet (or did I missed something), so it looks weird in a sence. Framework by tons of containers is fine but it feels one-sided at the same time.
I think you're approaching this from a slightly wrong angle. If Vince and co. designed AoD cities to 'looks fine' from a specific angle AND fix the camera position from the *get-go*, we wouldn't even have this conversation in the first place.

Meanwhile, I get what you're saying about The Pit, but (supposedly) it's the starting area and it's only a chunk that can be shown for the combat demo. *Of course* it would look artificial, especially the fact that it's but one part of a colossal colony ship.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
What I really meant is: The Pit looks a bit artificial...
It's a container town. Imagine something like this:

container-yard-0.jpg

but bigger and taller, then use the cranes to turn it into a 'town'.

Overall cascade of heighs doesn't supported by lore yet (or did I missed something), so it looks weird in a sence.
The town is sitting in one of the cargo holds (the colony ship is retrofitted cargo freighter), which explains the height and the darkness. The Habitat (the properly designed living quarters) look very different and Vault-like.

Meanwhile, I get what you're saying about The Pit, but (supposedly) it's the starting area...
It is.
 

jackofshadows

Magister
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
4,530
It's a container town. Imagine something like this:

container-yard-0.jpg
Yeah, I get that. But here it looks flat, more or less, so the angle to look from doesn't matter at all. While The Pit has overall tilt and even if camera wasn't locked, choosing the opposite angle would be silly. However, considering how huge this cargo hold might be... I've change my mind. I mean, it's quite possible for thouse people to settle in the particular place with the tilt, why not? And the darkness in The Pit is very neat, I liked it since first screenshots.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Who can seriously complain about "the camera"? You press and hold the mouswheel and move the mouse. You scroll the same mousewheel to zoom. It's one button. Even Mac users have mastered it.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
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Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,664
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Who can seriously complain about "the camera"? You press and hold the mouswheel and move the mouse. You scroll the same mousewheel to zoom. It's one button. Even Mac users have mastered it.

Panning, tilting, and zooming the camera viewpoint feels extremely awkward and janky in Age of Decadence compared to any number of other games and/or game engines in which these functions are well implemented. There's no getting around this, no matter how much you enjoy the game as a whole; pretending it's not an issue just makes you a deluded idiot.

You're confusing handling with controls. You press and hold a gas pedal and turn the steering wheel in order to drive an automatic car. It's a very simple control scheme. By your logic, all such cars should handle the same... but they don't, as anyone with half a grain of sense knows.

There are games from decades ago that did a far better job of implementing movable viewports. Acknowledge the objectively factual point and move on. Nothing's perfect.
 

Thunar

Educated
Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
98
Idk, never had an issue with it, you rotate with q and e, move the camera with wasd, click to move, it's what I've been doing for years :M
 

Butter

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
7,649
I ran into a bug where the camera would consistently fuck up after killing Cassius and returning to Feng. It would zoom super far out and you could rotate it but not translate it, and then it would go back to normal once you talked to Feng. Otherwise the camera isn't an issue.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Idk, never had an issue with it, you rotate with q and e, move the camera with wasd, click to move, it's what I've been doing for years :M

Are you incapable of understanding the difference between controls and handling?

I'll try rephrasing: The camera in AoD is indeed very easy to use, but using it is still annoying. A viewport can be both 1.) easy to control and 2.) annoying to use; those aren't mutually exclusive qualities.

Other games/engines have achieved viewports that are both easy to control and a pleasure to use. This proves that it's possible.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,419
Idk, never had an issue with it, you rotate with q and e, move the camera with wasd, click to move, it's what I've been doing for years :M

Are you incapable of understanding the difference between controls and handling?

I'll try rephrasing: The camera in AoD is indeed very easy to use, but using it is still annoying. A viewport can be both 1.) easy to control and 2.) annoying to use; those aren't mutually exclusive qualities.

Other games/engines have achieved viewports that are both easy to control and a pleasure to use. This proves that it's possible.

He understands, he just doesn't agree. Unfathomable, I know.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
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Messages
1,874,664
Location
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
He understands, he just doesn't agree. Unfathomable, I know.

Clearly he doesn't—and neither do you, since he mentioned only the controls.

The mouse, mouse buttons, and keyboard buttons constitute the controls. The handling when one utilizes those controls can range from smooth and responsive to sluggish and unresponsive. AoD's camera handling is sluggish and unresponsive, full stop.

What's actually happening here, of course, isn't a lack of understanding. What's happening is that misguided fanboys are avoiding discussion of the camera's handling (the real issue here), and are instead deliberately conflating the handling with the controls whilst harping on how simple those controls are (which is completely irrelevant). What I can't fathom is why it's so difficult for you idiots to admit that the camera handling is garbage, especially when Vince himself has fully acknowledged the fact.

Fortunately, I showed up to irrefutably explain why this is retarded.
 

Trashos

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
3,413
Another phenomenon I noticed is some players (about half I'd say) giving a negative review and then keep playing for hours:

You should think about recruiting those exact people for beta testing. It may not change their previous reviews, but it will turn some of them into supporters for CSG, because they will feel that now they share responsibility. Even if they refuse to participate, a lot of them are going to appreciate the gesture.

At least, that's how some real-life bosses act, from what I have noticed.
 

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