Shadow of the Tomb Raider - the final chapter from Eidos Montreal

[Adon]

I thought the opposite. This was first time that Lara felt like a real, flawed character with room to grow. 2013 Lara was just a simpering, violent psychopath that they wanted to portray as a victim but completely clashed with how capable she actually is considering half the shit she survives through.

 

[kalganoat]

This IP is done for now right? What should they go from here?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I'd like to see a cartoonish, tongue-in-cheek, Tomb Raider reboot that does to 1990s culture, what NOLF did to 1960s Spy Movies. That could go horribly wrong, though, so they'd need good writers to pull it off. Ultra grim dark realism doesn't really work with the central conceit of the series. In the least, it needs to have a sort of boyant "Indiana Jones" type feel to it. I loved Tomb Raider 2013, but that was mostly just because the clash between its seriousness and gamey elements was so fucking weird that it was fascinating to play. TR 2 and 3 were msotly mediocre and I mainly played them because I liked the graphics and each happened to coincide with my getting a new graphics cards.

Either that, or they should take the series back to the golden age of archaeology and set it in the mid-19th century. It could follow the escapades of one of Lara's ancestors, and they could self-consciously base it on late 19th century adventure novels like "Her." In fact, it might be fun to also have a parallel storyline where Lara explores the same places, 120 years later.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Melcar]

I want jailbait Lara back.

 

[Israfael]

Played this one first, then the 2013 version (I had it in Steam basically since release, wasn't bored enough to play it). To be honest, don't get the people who think SoTTR to be inferior to the first game, the first one is simply an interactive movie that can be played by a severely handicapped retard. Seriously, there's like 6 tombs all of which require solving ONE simple physics puzzle, everything is painstakingly color-coded (here you can jump because it's white, here you can't because it's colored), excessive and very unchallenging combat sequences. On the other hand, I spent probably more time doing the tombs (most of them DLC ones, I guess) in this game rather than doing main quest. Of course, more challenge would be welcome (game provides lots of tools which you rarely use and almost never use in conjuction, it could also be faster - just compare tank chase sequences in the Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb and the neanderthal chase here), but I don't get how it can be considered inferior to the 2013 one (and if you take the plot, it was rather more annoying there, here it's just bog-standard adventure like Temple of Doom or something like that). Of course, I'm rather more partial towards the Mesoamerican ancient history as compared to some mumbo-jumbo cross between "Heart of Darkness" fan fiction and some sort of made-up Japanese myth, but in any case, I'd say it was better _game_ still.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

Played this one first, then the 2013 version (I had it in Steam basically since release, wasn't bored enough to play it). To be honest, don't get the people who think SoTTR to be inferior to the first game, the first one is simply an interactive movie that can be played by a severely handicapped retard. Seriously, there's like 6 tombs all of which require solving ONE simple physics puzzle, everything is painstakingly color-coded (here you can jump because it's white, here you can't because it's colored), excessive and very unchallenging combat sequences. On the other hand, I spent probably more time doing the tombs (most of them DLC ones, I guess) in this game rather than doing main quest. Of course, more challenge would be welcome (game provides lots of tools which you rarely use and almost never use in conjuction, it could also be faster - just compare tank chase sequences in the Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb and the neanderthal chase here), but I don't get how it can be considered inferior to the 2013 one (and if you take the plot, it was rather more annoying there, here it's just bog-standard adventure like Temple of Doom or something like that). Of course, I'm rather more partial towards the Mesoamerican ancient history as compared to some mumbo-jumbo cross between "Heart of Darkness" fan fiction and some sort of made-up Japanese myth, but in any case, I'd say it was better _game_ still.

It's boring. It focuses on platforming challenges when the controls are so floaty and therefore the "challenges" are a cakewalk. No spirit, atleast Rise was pretty to look at, TR 2013 is atleast decent as a mediocre shooter. In the end all 3 are beyond mediocre, vapid and souless. SOTR's heart is in the right place, but it's in a confusing place because it wants to be both old and new thus failing in both.

 

[Zombra]

Israfael, you're implying that this game doesn't color-code traversal areas. Is this true? If so it is a huge improvement over both the first game and the first sequel. I gave up on this series because of the "shoot climbing arrow here" design. If Shadow grew out of that, I'd like to know.

 

[Adon]

Shadow has a difficultly that allows you to remove color-coded areas that mark where to go. I ended up actually being stuck in an area for about an hour because I had no idea where I was supposed to go next. SotTR is pure incline just for that alone.

 

[Wunderbar]

Shadow has a difficultly that allows you to remove color-coded areas that mark where to go. I ended up actually being stuck in an area for about an hour because I had no idea where I was supposed to go next. SotTR is pure incline just for that alone.

sounds like a bad level design to me.

 

[Adon]

Nah, I was just being dumb and overthinking about where to look. Once I knew what to do, it was painstakingly obvious what the route is.

 

[Pound Meat]

This IP is done for now right? What should they go from here?

My big fear is they'll remake the Core games with no boobs and modern sensibilities. TR Anniversary was about as good as we can expect and there's no way they'd even try to match that level of effort.

 

[Israfael]

It focuses on platforming challenges when the controls are so floaty and therefore the "challenges" are a cakewalk.

Have you done the DLC ones? Fire forge, for example (it's bigger than three typical "levels" of TR2013 combined) ? But I guess everyone on the 'dex is capable of getting through level 7 of battletoads in one go with breaking no sweat

 

[Israfael]

Nah, I was just being dumb and overthinking about where to look. Once I knew what to do, it was painstakingly obvious what the route is.

Inside Paititi, inside some cave with a pond and some high walls?

I gave up on this series because of the "shoot climbing arrow here" design.

White lines were not present (but I guess i was playing it on the hardest difficulty), never used the quest compass so I don't know if it worked. Climbable walls are there, obviously, but it's actually logical that you can spot them. Well, it's a move in a right direction in any case (and I had no idea that the first game was so dumbed down), I'm pretty sure the toolkit and gadgets could have been put to a more creative use.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

Shadow of the tomb raider is considered inferior because nobody played the game

Now seriously. This game is probably the most faithful to the originals, more than any other reboot game. It has a bad story, ok. But I really admire the focus on platforming and exploring while lowering the enemy encounters.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

some sort of made-up Japanese myth

The legend of Yamatai is actually not made up at all, and most of the 2013 reboot’s plot touches on real mythological/folkloric detail albeit in the silliest most non-scholarly method possible. Then Rise went full-retard with the most nonsensical plot possible.
Haven’t played Shadow yet because Rise was just pure distilled tedium and I don’t think I ever managed to finish it, but I do prefer the setting of MesoAmerican jungles to... er, Tribal Babylonian Siberia... so maybe I’ll give it a try someday.

 

[TheHeroOfTime]

They are giving away Tomb raider 2013 and Lara croft: Temple of Osiris on Steam right now for free

 

[cvv]

So for years I thought "I'd only play the nuTomb Raider if it was free". And now it is and so I did.

I actually played all three games back-to-back. TR2013 surprised me. It's just a dumb akshun game but it turned out to be a guilty pleasure for me. It was a fun romp and so I bought the rest of the trilogy at a massive discount.

Rise was bigger, richer and better in all aspects. I actually ended up 100% this thing. My inner sperg likes to hoover up question marks from the map so that's what I did.

Barely finished Shadow. Jesus christ on a bike the writing was fucking insufferable even for a retarded akshun vidya. Not only are the dialogues "my face is tired" kindda incompetent, the plot is too retarded even for the dumbfuck standard of the series, the characters are dull cardboard cutouts, including Lara, and ofc it's the current year so SJW retardery inevitably crept in. So predictably all females are stronk wahmen leeduhrs and all males are either psychopats or docile betas.

Plus they downsized combat massively but left the rest of the game structure untouched. So it's all built as if the game is still just as heavy combat focused as Rise. Still tons of ways to get XP, gear and upgrade materials even though it's all completely useless. Retarded Canadians.

Fuck the corona lockdown btw. As was pointed out in the corona thread, the worst thing about the virus is it makes people play garbage games. Tru.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Tomb Raider 2013 is probably my favorite non-RPG action game of the 2010s. It's completely batshit insane, tonally, with lots of ruff edges, but also utterly compelling. It plays like it was designed by completely different teams, one dedicated to story, another dedicated to gameplay, and a third made up of demented pubescent boys from the 1970s, and none of them were communicating at all while making the game. Which makes for a really fucking bizarre experience, and, because of that, I loved every minute of it.

Rise is a fun game, but the plot's completely forgettable. It's conventional and polished, whereas TR13 was bizarre and unique, but its gameplay is still fun. It has slightly larger levels and the gameplay mechanics are a bit more polished.

Same with Shadow, which has the benefit of having the most polished gameplay in the entire series and some of the best graphics on the market right now (the game is completely beautiful, has every graphical bell and whistle, and looks great). Its plot is boring, but it's great fun regardless and restores the tomb exploration aspect of the games that the previous 2 sometimes overlooked. I also actually liked that there was almost no combat in the first 3/4 of the game. It made it feel like a true survival game.

TR13 has the single best character arc of any game I've played in ages, which makes Rise and Shadow suffer in comparison. Lara's character arc in TR13 was so good that there was really nowhere interesting for her to go in Rise and Shadow. So it's really not surprising they were so dull. Rise is all tedious family drama, while Shadow is more family drama, along with a silly villain trying to destroy the world in a way that makes no sense.

 

[cvv]

Zombra and Wunderbar you agree with the Shadow part of this^? Ya'll actually liked that game? Whaat the fuck.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Shadow's plot is completely forgettable, but it has great level design. The Mayan city is awesome and its tombs are the best in all of nu-Tomb Raider. They actually made me feel like I was playing classic Tomb Raider. Especially if you play on the hardest difficulty, which eliminates the "glows" that identify what you have to do in every tomb.

 

[cvv]

Shadow's plot is completely forgettable, but it has great level design. The Mayan city is awesome and its tombs are the best in all of nu-Tomb Raider. They actually made me feel like I was playing classic Tomb Raider. Especially if you play on the hardest difficulty, which eliminates the "glows" that identify what you have to do in every tomb.

Sure the tombs are best in the series but everything else is so weak, bland, boring and pointless that I didn't even finish half of the tombs.

 

[Wunderbar]

Zombra and Wunderbar you agree with the Shadow part of this^? Ya'll actually liked that game? Whaat the fuck.

i've agreed with TR2013 part, liked the setting and game's pulpy feel. Reminded me of Temple of Doom.
Haven't beaten Shadow yet.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

TR13 is a straight rip of the horror film The Descent, in terms of the character arc (the scene where Lara rises from the pool of blood, hardened, is taken directly from The Descent). There are also direct references to Rambo and other 80s action films. The game very much plays like an r-rated grindhouse/horror film at times, which is part of why the tone is so bizarre, as that element of the game is taken so seriously, and much of the horror of the game is rendered so realistically, that it frequently clashes with other more gamey and conventional elements. The most infamous and obvious is Lara's death scenes, which are fucking excruciating to watch and which are never really replicated in the sequels, which is kind of a testament to the fact that the developers must have realized they went too far with them (the sequels have much more conventional and tame death scenes). You will be platforming along, collecting artifacts, then....BAM! Suddenly you are hit with an NC-17 level death scene, with Lara writhing around and gasping in very realistic pain. It's so fucking weird. And that sort of thing is repeated constantly in the game in ways large and small. Even Lara's in game sound effects are weird. She frantically gasps and whimpers when she struggles and fights with enemies, in a way that sounds like a woman who is in genuine distress and who is just barely surviving. The sounds she makes when she struggles are realistic enough to be genuinely disturbing. Yet she frantically gasps like that EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU KILL SOMEONE and you kill literally scores of enemies in the game, so after a point it just gets weird. Lara ends up coming off as some sort of schizophrenic psycho who is getting off on being distressed as she coldly slaughters another human.

That's the sort of thing I mean when I say it's like the game was designed by 3 different teams who weren't communicating with eachother. There are so many bizarre little touches like that which just make you think, "Did anyone play this game from start to finish before they released it? Or did people just create their tiny portion of the game without thinking about how it would fit with everything else?" Lara will graphically slaughter 20 dudes, gasping and panting the whole time, then she'll nearly be raped in a violent cut scene, then 2 seconds later she'll find an artifact and narrate its origin to the player like an excited school girl. Lots of games have these weird oscillations between serious and gamey elements, but TR13 goes so far in rendering its serious elements in a gritty and realistic fashion, that the tonal shifts are really jarring.

It's such a strange game.