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Should calendars in fantasy games be, um, fantasy? (i.e. custom-made)

Pero_Gamechuck

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Hi guys.

So, calendars in fantasy RPG/action/whatever games set in an imaginary world... An imaginary world can't have "July" if it never had Julius Caesar, right?

Anyway, we were trying to figure out it for our own game, and came up with a... turtle. Bear with me.

c356a0b9-80b4-49ef-afd0-84ea685d550c.png

In our world, the turtles have since antiquity been known to be scholars and keepers of knowledge. Their job on the Ark Fantastic was measuring time, so much so that the calendar of the Kingdom is designed on their backs.

The month was thus divided into 13 months, with 28 days each – 4 weeks of 7, accounting for 364 days in total.

After the end of each year, there is the Lion’s time. It is usually just one day, the 365th day of the year. However, when princes are born or kings pass away, this period of mourning or celebration is prolonged to as long as is needed.

The Lion’s time is a period which also helps align with the solar calendar: when a King who ruled 25 years passes away, the period of mourning lasts 6 days, to make up for the lack of leap years. Other civilisations also have this, and it’s usually called an intercalary period, and it’s usually mid-winter or whenever the days start becoming longer, so it coincides with the re-birth of nature and all the rites and rituals that occur at that time…

So we decided it happens right at the end of January, or, as we decided to call it – Cubbary. It’s the month when statistically, most cubs are born (well, cubs of some animals at least). That symbolises rebirth as well, and a new start, so it makes sense the year would start with that month, and end with the celebration of the most important animal in the Kindom hierarchy – the lions.

Since the gestation period for great cats is around 100 days, the period 4 months before that (corresponding roughly to our September-October) is adequately called – Ruttery. This is influenced by the various eastern European and Slavic calendars which all have the month rije or rujan which means rutting, or – mating).

We have also played with words a bit and called the July-August month Whest as a combination of the words harvest and wheat, since that month was usually called by either of those two words (žetvar – harvest month in Macedonia, followed by žitar the month of wheat, žnjenc – sowing month in Lusatia, serpen – the month of the sickle in Russia, et cetera).

So, in summation:
  • Cubbary – January 4 – January 31
  • Lion’s time – February 1 + February 29 (as many of those as needed to sync up)
  • Sunnary – February 2 – March 1
  • Wake – March 2 – March 29
  • Grassery – March 30 – April 26
  • Bloom – April 27 – May 24
  • Shine – May 25 – June 21
  • Middary – June 22 – July 19
  • Scorch – July 20 – August 16
  • Whest – August 17 – September 13
  • Ruttery – September 14 – October 11
  • Leafall – October 12 – November 8
  • Foggery – November 9 – December 6
  • Pallidy – December 7 – January 3

What do you think about this concept? Should fantasy games have fantasy calendars? Have we gone too far?
 

oscar

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It's a very cool idea (and I've checked out your game what seems like an impressively unique and intelligent concept) but on the whole I find fantasy calendars rather annoying from a practical POV even if they are immersive. Being told I have to complete the quest by the 7th day of Moon's Solace when it's the 25th of Red Wind is immersing but being forced to alt-tab to find out just what the hell that actually means is annoying and un-immersive.

Your names are good and sensible. I liked the Elder Scroll month names. It might be my memory but I recall Morrowind would have how far from today any date recorded was in brackets. I think this should be copied so I can know more practically just how long do I have to return to this questgiver, fufill that contract etc

http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Calendar
 

*-*/\--/\~

Cipher
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No. Because most developers just rename the individual months and that's it. No interesting play, mechanics or consequences, just forcing a dozen made up words down your throat.

Recent example, Pathfinder. 12 generic 30 day months with wacky names, the result being I have no idea which is which and can't be bothered to learn, as there are no consequences.
 
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Dorateen

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The Crystal Mist Mountains
Tunnels & Trolls: Crusaders of Khazan (New World Computing, 1990) has a tremendous calendar system, including custom names for days of the week. It also lets characters learn different languages.
 

Rinslin Merwind

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No. Because most developers just rename the individual months and that's it. No interesting play, mechanics or consequences, just forcing a dozen made up words down your throat.

Recent example, Pathfinder. 12 generic 30 day months with wacky names, the result being I have no idea which is which and can't be bothered to learn, as there are no consequences.
So names of long dead Roman emperors as months somehow improve "gameplay mechanics, C&C"? If you not able to learn for short time (you don't even need to use fictional calendar all your life) some "wacky" words, that means problem mostly with you and not the game.
 
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Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
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The only time it's easy to memorize a new calendar is if it's far more simple, either by having fewer months or having a really obvious pattern to the names like naming them after the seasons or naming the weekdays just one through tensday like Might and Magic did. And the benefit is practically zero. Not knowing what the date is will only be immersive if your character isn't supposed to know the names of the months either, which is probably not the case.
 

Pero_Gamechuck

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What do you think about this concept? Should fantasy games have fantasy calendars? Have we gone too far?
It's immersive, but preferable that in-game should be hint about how much days from current date left to quest connected date. And change in gameplay depending on month would be nice too.

That indeed is a pretty cool idea! Thanks! We just may have a handy calendar of sorts in the inventory, or similar. Something to think about.
 

Stormcrowfleet

Aeon & Star Interactive
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In my D&D campaign, because it's a West Marches style, it's much more easier for me to use real life calendar so that's what I did. I didn't even change the name of the months, notably because there is latin and shit in my world.

But in general, I do think it's better if there is consideration given to immersion, but most notably to gameplay. Do you have a feast/special event calendar ? Is it influenced by the time calendar ? If not, why even bother ? Calendar are ways for people to organize time. If you create a calendar but it doesn't organize anything, then it's worthless, it could be very well just "day 1" to "day 1000" of gameplay.
 

Pero_Gamechuck

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Imo it's ok to just rename the months from the gregorian calendar.

You basically did the same with your 28 day month system which looks more like an autist way to "fix" our calendar system.
But it doesn't feel alien or creative.

*autistic screeching
 
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Every fantasy game should have their own fictional language and come with their own dictionary, and you have to learn a entire new fictional language just to start playing.
 

V_K

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You can just use numerical dates to help the player figure out what "Grassery" means.
Real question is: does your game really need a way to keep track of time this precisely?
 

Pero_Gamechuck

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Every fantasy game should have their own fictional language and come with their own dictionary, and you have to learn a entire new fictional language just to start playing.

Welp, you'll actually have to learn fictional languages in our game :-D

https://www.tripthearkfantastic.com/#panel2

"Sometimes, the player will need to question other animals for more clues. However, not all animals speak the common tongue, so becoming fluent in the local language goes a long way towards solving the mystery at hand."
 

Melan

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Does it have an appreciable gameplay impact? If it does, go for it. If it does not, let it stay in the background, or do not bother.

It can be fun to explore the details of an alien world - perhaps on the level of Ultima's runic alphabet, or its moon phases. These have a good value/effort balance. Learning an intricate system which is then used in a throwaway fashion, or which turns the game experience into a slog due to the need to constantly reference things, is too much.
 

DalekFlay

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I wouldn't count out the benefits of players knowing where they are in the year without a deep dive into lore, IF knowing the date is important to some quest or game mechanic. If it's not, then go hog wild.
 

*-*/\--/\~

Cipher
Joined
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Messages
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No. Because most developers just rename the individual months and that's it. No interesting play, mechanics or consequences, just forcing a dozen made up words down your throat.

Recent example, Pathfinder. 12 generic 30 day months with wacky names, the result being I have no idea which is which and can't be bothered to learn, as there are no consequences.
So names of long dead Roman emperors as months somehow improve "gameplay mechanics, C&C"? If you not able to learn for short time (you don't even need to use fictional calendar all your life) some "wacky" words, that means problem mostly with you and not the game.

The "long dead emperors" have markedly influenced our history, those ties alone make it more significant than randomly made up shit. Mechanics can be introduced, with quests and areas availability varying with the date for example.
It is not that I were not able to learn a dozen words, it's that I just don't care enough to do so, as they tend to be arbitrary and meaningless filler.

xkcd said it better than me I guess:
fiction_rule_of_thumb.png
 

Rinslin Merwind

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The "long dead emperors" have markedly influenced our history, those ties alone make it more significant than randomly made up shit. Mechanics can be introduced, with quests and areas availability varying with the date for example.
It is not that I were not able to learn a dozen words, it's that I just don't care enough to do so, as they tend to be arbitrary and meaningless filler.

xkcd said it better than me I guess:
fiction_rule_of_thumb.png
"The "long dead emperors" have markedly influenced our history, those ties alone make it more significant than randomly made up shit" - yes, exactly, they influenced OUR history, not history of world where animals can talk. In their world a word "July" will be randomly made up shit.
XKCD refers to made up word instead common word, meanwhile with "July" situation will be different, because "July" comes from FAMILY NAME "Julious", not just first name.
 

*-*/\--/\~

Cipher
Joined
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Messages
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The "long dead emperors" have markedly influenced our history, those ties alone make it more significant than randomly made up shit. Mechanics can be introduced, with quests and areas availability varying with the date for example.
It is not that I were not able to learn a dozen words, it's that I just don't care enough to do so, as they tend to be arbitrary and meaningless filler.

xkcd said it better than me I guess:
fiction_rule_of_thumb.png
"The "long dead emperors" have markedly influenced our history, those ties alone make it more significant than randomly made up shit" - yes, exactly, they influenced OUR history, not history of world where animals can talk. In their world a word "July" will be randomly made up shit.
XKCD refers to made up word instead common word, meanwhile with "July" situation will be different, because "July" comes from FAMILY NAME "Julious", not just first name.

Month names have been around so long that they are pretty much common words, no matter their origins. Only two of them are actually named after roman emperors, no idea why you care so much about that.

"In their world a word "July" will be randomly made up shit." - then there is no reason to replace it with other randomly made up shit. Unless the dev is willing to put in enough effort to make it a meaningful part of the game, there is no reason not to stick with names people know already.
 
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If you're not deviating from actual time nor seasons in a thematically meaningful way, it's a pointless endeavor that will only annoy.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Many of the names not named after Roman emperors are named after Roman gods. Janus, Juno, etc.

Weekdays in Germanic languages are named after Germanic gods.

Just follow a similar pattern that makes sense in your game world for more immersion.

If time is relevant in your game, add a days counter to the journal in quests where it's relevant. "5 days left" is more convenient than any date, even a real-world date (even when it says "due on July 23rd" you need to do some minor calculation in your head, when it says "due in 5 days" you know it at a glance).

Usually there is no reason to learn the names of the months by heart, so why not add names that fit your world rather than just copying our real world names? It's not like it's going to inconvenience the player.
 

Tigranes

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Your turtle is awesome and in tune with some of the roles turtles played in various mythologies, so I like it.

That said, the question isn't "should calendars be real or fantasy". The question is whether your lore thing is baked into your story & gameplay so that the player can meaningfully engage with it.

If "November" is suddenly "Turtle Arsehole" but nothing else has changed, then why the hell is it there? Nobody will remember the system because nobody gets to engage with it. It's pointless fluff.

Am I playing a strategy game where my resources have to be gathered in a specific way, and the cycle of "Lion's Time" and whatever is actually attuned to that? OK, then suddenly you remember those months because of their tangible impact on *my* gameplay experience. Not the developer looking at his own theory, but the player's experience of actually playing the game.

Maybe it's an adventure game and the people of this setting have a numerological belief around dates of birth,f estivals, etc., related to the turtle system. So you actually learn about NPCs' personalities based on their fascination with certain numbers, and solve puzzles e.g. break into people's safes through this. Again, it's about making it actually mean something not in the lore but in the game.
 

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