World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Lacrymas]

This is what Jack says to the Cabbie in the end: "Hey, it happened just like you said. [Jack laughs]They never even knew what hit 'em. Threw that sarcophagus out there and they just tore each other up tryin' to get to it." I know little about the Caine lore of the WoD, but why would some other random vampire do something like this? Besides the whole empowering thing to get the plan rolling...

Here's the thing. The sarcophagus and the empowerment don't have anything to do with each other. Or at worst they contradict one another. And there are a lot of vampires who would do this sort of thing, there's no shortage of motivation.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Ahhh i was curious why this thread had pulled a few pages ahead,only to find another one of Lacrymas sperges.

Such is the female brain. :^)

 

[jungl]

Who know maybe now white wolf allowing brian mitsoda to fulfill that power fantasy. Main character is son goku and you got to power up. Everytime you spend blood points the player gets stronger cause your caine daddy favorite little pozz baby.

 

[normie]

there are a lot of vampires who would do this sort of thing, there's no shortage of motivation.

not in the game made by Troika, there's only cabbie who is Caine

spergs' sense of lore and White Wolf's judgement on Bloodlines' place in canon and have no bearing on the writing of Bloodlines itself, a self-contained and complete work that features Caine in the guise of a cab driver

 

[Lacrymas]

That makes it worse, however. At the very least because it doesn't make sense, along with it shitting on established lore. There's also no reason to have anyone orchestrating this thing.

 

[normie]

That makes it worse, however. At the very least because it doesn't make sense, along with it shitting on established lore. There's also no reason to have anyone orchestrating this thing.

you're confusing a very simple interactive story that introduces you to the scheming and manipulative world of VtM, lampshades the central point by revealing Caine to be the ultimate mover after spending a lot of its time building up his relevance and mystery, then tests if you've been paying attention and finally let's you decide how you feel about it

 

[Lacrymas]

If it is indeed Caine that does this, it introduces you to the scheming and manipulative world of VtM badly. Actual VtM games and books don't go like this and don't involve Caine in such a manner. It cheapens the manipulative aspects by having them being done (again, badly) by basically an all powerful being.

 

[Duraframe300]

The whole lore of WoD counts for more than a few hints from devs who thought they could do better than the WoD lore.

The WOD team didn't write Bloodlines, though.

And considering we live in a time where shit can get retconned or outright erased 30-40 years after the fact, what the license holder says isn't really the be-end all.
In the context of the game. in the context of its writers, in the context of the developer its most likely Cain. There's nothing wrong with stating that.

Now if its bad writing. That's another story.

 

[Lacrymas]

In the context of good writing that makes sense, it's not Caine.

 

[Wesp5]

In the context of good writing that makes sense, it's not Caine.

Well, didn't WW retcon the whole old WoD lore including Caine waking for Gehenna in V5? Then Bloodlines isn't a problem anymore !

 

[Lacrymas]

The new edition is terrible and I formally disown it.

 

[fantadomat]

In the context of good writing that makes sense, it's not Caine.

Well, didn't WW retcon the whole old WoD lore including Caine waking for Gehenna in V5? Then Bloodlines isn't a problem anymore !

Yet most people that still care about this shit,like the old lore. Nobody really cares about muh tranny vamp lifes in kosovo or whatever it was the new shit.

 

[Lacrymas]

Reminding people of the gay black Muslim feminist and tranny support circles should be a punishable offense under the law.

 

[Roguey]

But it did fit within the lore of the WoD at the time! According to the Gehenna novel, Caine was locked inside a cave and sometimes left in spirit to check out the world. In my headcannon he impersonated the Cabbie and orchestrated the whole sarcophagus event to see how his childer would react. To help him decide whether to start Gehenna afterwards or not...

Caine doesn't interfere with his kids because he's too depressed and doesn't care about them, which is what White Wolf wrote down, and why they outright stated the cab driver was a crazy old Malkavian who thought he was Caine. This is necessary because

When an npc's stats are "he/she can do anything," then that character's personality must be the sort that prevents him/her from doing anything.

 

[Wesp5]

Caine doesn't interfere with his kids because he's too depressed and doesn't care about them, which is what White Wolf wrote down, and why they outright stated the cab driver was a crazy old Malkavian who thought he was Caine.

In the Gehenna novel, which I found actually bad because of how it handled Jack, Caine traveled around with Beckett so this contradicts your first point. Also I often heard about the second but could never find any evidence! Care to link to a source?

 

[fantadomat]

In the Gehenna novel,

People outside of kwan read those fanfic garbage shit?

 

[Lacrymas]

Caine doesn't interfere with his kids because he's too depressed and doesn't care about them, which is what White Wolf wrote down, and why they outright stated the cab driver was a crazy old Malkavian who thought he was Caine.

In the Gehenna novel, which I found actually bad because of how it handled Jack, Caine traveled around with Beckett so this contradicts your first point. Also I often heard about the second but could never find any evidence! Care to link to a source?

He can walk and talk, that doesn't mean he'll do anything to interfere. It just doesn't make sense for him to be orchestrating Bloodlines, especially in the way he does it, even if he wasn't an all-powerful deity.

 

[Roguey]

Also I often heard about the second but could never find any evidence! Care to link to a source?

A fan made it because White Wolf never gave Caine official stats (because why would they, he can do anything).

 

[Storyfag]

It's not hinted because it was intended for Caine to be the instigator. However, perhaps Troika weren't aware that an old-ghoul-turned-vampire can do the things the PC can. It explains both the faster acquisition of disciplines and the blood points while having a high generation. Dracula is one such case.

Are you trying to lore-wise explain a game mechanic (how the player can become so strong in so short a time)? I don't think that it's needed or even a good idea.

Some of the best CRPGs out there do acknowledge the PCs rapid raise to power and do explain it lore-wise. Bloodlines, MotB, KotOR II and hell, even KotOR I.

 

[Lacrymas]

Some of the best CRPGs out there do acknowledge the PCs rapid raise to power and do explain it lore-wise. Bloodlines, MotB, KotOR II and hell, even KotOR I.

It wasn't explained in Bloodlines, though, and the two theories - Caine or old ghoul - aren't in the same vein as the ones from MotB or KotOR2. It simply is and you go "ok".

 

[Harthwain]

Some of the best CRPGs out there do acknowledge the PCs rapid raise to power and do explain it lore-wise. Bloodlines, MotB, KotOR II and hell, even KotOR I.

I think you're confusing setting up the stage for the major plot twist (You're Revan!/Special/Whatever) with trying to "acknowledge the PCs rapid raise to power and do explain it lore-wise". The latter is largely accidental result of the former. Also, if your raise to power is so rapid that you need to explain it lore-wise, then you screwed something up, because it should feel natural due to how the chain of events unfolds naturally. Or not mention it, when it doesn't matter for the story.

 

[Storyfag]

Some of the best CRPGs out there do acknowledge the PCs rapid raise to power and do explain it lore-wise. Bloodlines, MotB, KotOR II and hell, even KotOR I.

I think you're confusing setting up the stage for the major plot twist (You're Revan!/Special/Whatever) with trying to "acknowledge the PCs rapid raise to power and do explain it lore-wise". The latter is largely accidental result of the former. Also, if your raise to power is so rapid that you need to explain it lore-wise, then you screwed something up, because it should feel natural due to how the chain of events unfolds naturally. Or not mention it, when it doesn't matter for the story.

I think you are hopw roewur ne.

 

[Harthwain]

I think you are hopw roewur ne.

I have no idea what that means, but... Fuck you too, I guess?

 

[Lambach]

Some of the best CRPGs out there do acknowledge the PCs rapid raise to power and do explain it lore-wise. Bloodlines, MotB, KotOR II and hell, even KotOR I.

MotB doesn't. You advance in power because you adventure and gain XP, same as anything in D&D. Bloodlines also doesn't explain it. "Caine has been powering you up" is an unconfirmed theory at best, fan-fiction at worst.

 

[Surf Solar]

But it did fit within the lore of the WoD at the time! According to the Gehenna novel, Caine was locked inside a cave and sometimes left in spirit to check out the world. In my headcannon he impersonated the Cabbie and orchestrated the whole sarcophagus event to see how his childer would react. To help him decide whether to start Gehenna afterwards or not...

Caine doesn't interfere with his kids because he's too depressed and doesn't care about them, which is what White Wolf wrote down, and why they outright stated the cab driver was a crazy old Malkavian who thought he was Caine. This is necessary because

When an npc's stats are "he/she can do anything," then that character's personality must be the sort that prevents him/her from doing anything.

Caine=Lady of Pain confirmed??!!11