Half-Life: Alyx - Valve's full-length flagship VR game set between HL1 and HL2

[Dexter]

It's painful to watch at times, particularly the Heavy "AI"

The Heavy AI ain't meant to fight against Headcrabs.

FIFTEEEN YEARS

 

[Sentinel]

https://vocaroo.com/3xa1SklUPty

 

[Dayyālu]

The Heavy AI ain't meant to fight against Headcrabs.

I won't even dignify that of a reply.

Ah, yes, the Marph video where he makes fun of a very specific bug (and he knows far better than most of us, having an entire series of Half Life oddities videos). And you posted it as a proof of what, exactly? The title itself is exaggerated for trolling purposes.

You could argue that it's a well-known fact that the Combine AI is gimped in other ways: only two soldiers in every squad can attack at the same time, grenades are likewise limited to a single active one, all weapon damage for Combine soldiers is lowered compared to player-owned weapons and grenade timing is, if I remember right, cut short of roughly 30% compared to player grenades, only Elites can use secondary fire... modders have to multiply squads to get the player under real pressure in most cases.

And you had to get a meme video from a guy who has an entire series on Half Life's oddities.

What were you trying to say? That the horrible Combine AI, purposefully crippled to let VR players survive encounters with as many as three soldiers, isn't a travesty compared to even 1998 Marine scripting?

As I said, I have nothing to comment on Alyx: it's not a shooter, it's a walking sim. I am simply disappointed that Half Life, commonly held as a good example of tactical AI, has dropped the ball even on that one.

 

[Metronome]

The Heavy AI ain't meant to fight against Headcrabs.

Maybe not, but the headcrab attacks themselves look pretty silly. They are killing the guys in heavy armor by awkwardly bouncing off of them. It's looks like he's being killed by getting tennis balls thrown at him. If he can't shoot them fast enough, he should just be immune to them. At least it looks like he would be immune to them.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah I watched Mack's review earlier today and I wasn't impressed by the AI that I saw. They didn't seem very smart at all. I think the game still looks interesting and I'll probably pick it up when I get my VR setup up and running again. But it's really disappointing to see nothing but shit AI in games for the last 20 years.

 

[Egosphere]

FIFTEEEN YEARS

Ah, yes, the Marph video where he makes fun of a very specific bug (and he knows far better than most of us, having an entire series of Half Life oddities videos). And you posted it as a proof of what, exactly? The title itself is exaggerated for trolling purposes.

..
And you had to get a meme video from a guy who has an entire series on Half Life's oddities.

What were you trying to say?

But the ai video of hl2 you posted is a meme in itself. Look at 0:56 - 1:28 What are they doing? Shotgunner rushes you, hits you over the head then turns around and flees. The elite does nothing, other than milling around in brownian motion. Then they shuffle out all at once, bumping into each other, before a few of them close the distance with the smgs. It feels disjointed, at best. They rarely coordinate flanking maneuvres, usually all flanking from one side (unlike FEAR, which would often catch you in a pincer). Their grenades and the secondary fire mode on the pulse rifle is the only danger they pose. If you're at full health/armour, it'd take them a good 15 seconds to put you down even if you didn't touch the keyboard. And all of this is happening in a small level tailored for this battle. In the campaign they were even worse, rushing through the same door over and over again, getting confused and disengaging from a fight when they had the advantage, refusing to take cover when they were completely outgunned etc. Episode 2 had to bring in the hunters to fix the problem - tanky enemies that could soak up the damage gave them the upper hand in every engagement, so primitive behaviour could be excused. Alyx is par for course, really.

 

[Stella Brando]

I'm reading a few pages back, and Lyric Suite gets eviscerated for claiming that Alyx is a pandering return to an old setting. But to be fair to Hortense Mancini (1), Valve has created 4 (count 'em! (2)) games in a single setting. Although Episode 2 did expand the universe into nearby forest and mountains.

I'm hoping that the next 'generation' of Half Life games (3) will show us a genuinely new and interesting location. Hopefully we wont return to the US again. I can give Arizona a pass as its my favourite place in the USA (4). Americans always try to return to comfortable ground - It's my theory that any American history/time travel series that lasts long enough is guaranteed to arrive at the founding of the USA (5).



(1) His real name.
(2) I'm not sure why people say this.
(3) Half Life 3
(4) My least favourite is downtown LA.
(5) See Assassin's Creed. (6)
(6) And many others.

 

[cvv]

So did they push the story in any meaningful direction or are they just doing the Lost schtick where everything is kraaazy and mysteeeerious without ever explaining anything ever?

 

[Dayyālu]

But the ai video of hl2 you posted is a meme in itself.

Again, the Combine AI has limits (what you are seeing is the typical attack limit they put in to avoid excessive damage to the player). FEAR's Replicas do not flank you on purpose, you know, it's merely that they are scripted very well for the enviroments they fight in and focus on mobility. Can't beat FEAR combat in regards to combat physicality and AI reactions, no one ever came close (insert FEAR2 jokes here ; _ ; ).

Furthermore, I'd suggest you to manually fix their damage output to give them the same damage you have, and you'll discover that a single shotgunner if not dealt with at once is a dangerous foe and covering fire is blistering.

Does this make this perfect? Hell no. Fighting Combine soldiers has problems: they are hyper aggressive (a problem that got worse since the 2010 update) and they are also squishy compared to the HECU. Fighting the HECU is more satisfying for a single great reason: HECU are tankier and they can show a wider variety of reactions before you gun them down.

Watch the Alyx videos: gaze at how they shoot at rocks for a good 10 seconds before redeploying, like NuWolfestein muppets. The "Heavy" shows less initiative than a goddamn Doom chaingunner, and the Combine Wars video (supposedly a proof of "how good it is") shows them shooting at rocks and dying randomly to cover fire. They barely avoid grenades.

Of cours, gimping AI for gameplay isn't anything new, and you can't have FEAR-level aggression in a VR game. Doesn't stop me for being bothered about it, tho.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

So did they push the story in any meaningful direction or are they just doing the Lost schtick where everything is kraaazy and mysteeeerious without ever explaining anything ever?

Warning, some details on the ending of Half Life Alyx

Spoiler

If you mean regarding the Seven Hour War and such or the G-Man's employers, not really. Well it is suggested that the G-Man or his employers are unable or unwilling to intercede and remove the Combine from Earth when Alyx asks that at the end of the campaign.
Also, the ending of Episode 2 is changed by the G-Man using weird time altering powers/technology so that Eli Vance is not killed by an advisor.

So yeah, basically they are hinting at some details without ever answering really anything.

 

[cvv]

Spoiler

If you mean regarding the Seven Hour War and such or the G-Man's employers, not really. Well it is suggested that the G-Man or his employers are unable or unwilling to intercede and remove the Combine from Earth when Alyx asks that at the end of the campaign.
Also, the ending of Episode 2 is changed by the G-Man using weird time altering powers/technology so that Eli Vance is not killed by an advisor.

So yeah, basically they are hinting at some details without ever answering really anything.

Yeah I meant the identity of G-Man and his trick with the time. If they never explain that mystery they're pathetic hacks. This is an age-old trick, dangling a shiny mystery in front of a reader/viewer/player but never provide any answer. Because every idiot can come up with a mysterious event but putting it in a satisfying and interesting context is a real art.

 

[Lyric Suite]

The original was build around stuff like the X-files i guess it's fitting that they seem unable to answer anything because they probably have no idea themselves, just like the show.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

Or perhaps to drag out an idea long as possible because they have nothing to replace it with once it is played out.

 

[schru]

The original was build around stuff like the X-files i guess it's fitting that they seem unable to answer anything because they probably have no idea themselves, just like the show.

That's true, though in case of Half-Life I don't think it was ever about building up to some grand revelation that may or may not come two decades later. That's absurd. The G-Man's sudden apearance at the end of the game is the pay-off and his character is more about evoking that aura of mystery appropriate for some shadowy government operative. The story in the games is about what Gordon does throughout, action film stuff, and the G-Man comes at the end to end it abruptly as a very explicit deus ex machina-type plot device. I'm pretty sure both the first and the second game were written as self-contained stories and they had open endings only to leave open the possibility for a sequel.

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

snip

Very probably. I do wish that Half Life 2 had indeed ended with a conclusion and an opening for a third game instead of it being so dragged with episodes and unanswered plotlines that made fans over the years think that there was a careful build up towards some grandiose conclusion that would connect everything together, making it some sort of complex novel that goes beyond just trying to tell a sci fi action story in a dystopian setting.

 

[schru]

Very probably. I do wish that Half Life 2 had indeed ended with a conclusion and an opening for a third game instead of it being so dragged with episodes and unanswered plotlines that made fans over the years think that there was a careful build up towards some grandiose conclusion that would connect everything together, making it some sort of complex novel that goes beyond just trying to tell a sci fi action story in a dystopian setting.

Yes, I like the Episodes on their own, but I was rather disappointed by Valve's choice to extend Half-Life 2's story arc as it took away from the impact of the game's sudden and equivocal ending. It was more interesting with the possibility that the Citadel's explosion killed everyone around Freeman and that the job he was sent to accomplish wasn't at all related to the aims of the resistance.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

The G-Man is a Nihilanth.
Who he works for we may never know though.

 

[cvv]

a very explicit deus ex machina-type plot device

Yes, the age-old signature of incompetent writers. Whenever you write yourself into a corner and you can't figure how to get out - abracadabra, a deux ex-machina device out of your sleeve goes.

It's perfectly fine, even desirable, to write a story with some mystery on the sides. (Case in point - we don't know where the Force is coming from and what exactly it is but that's great. No dumbfuck explanations like muh midichlorians are required.)

But a story where the very main mast of the plot "is...like...mysterious you know" was retarded, is retarded and always will be retarded.

 

[schru]

a very explicit deus ex machina-type plot device

Yes, the age-old signature of incompetent writers. Whenever you write yourself into a corner and you can't figure how to get out - abracadabra, a deux ex-machina device out of your sleeve goes.

It's perfectly fine, even desirable, to write a story with some mystery. (Case in point - we don't know where the Force is coming from and what exactly it is but that's great. No dumbfuck explanations like muh midichlorians are required.)

But a story where the very main mast of the plot "is...like...mysterious you know" was retarded, is retarded and always will be retarded.

But Valve didn't write themselves into a corner or use deus ex machina to resolve the G-Man's mystery, he was a deus ex machina from the beginning. The story of those games doesn't hinge on the mystery, it's what happens throughout the game, in case of the sequel it's the character drama, whatever its worth may be. The G-Man himself is more like a framing device for the story by the second game: he inserts the player and he removes him.

I do agree that Valve probably doesn't have a very special or thoughtful resolution to the overaching story, if there ever was one. But it would be wrong to assume that the stories of Half-Life and Half-Life 2 hinge on Valve providing answers someday, in ten or thirty years, as it wasn't certain if there would be more instalments when either one was being developed.

Returning to the G-Man and the mysterious quality, I would say that simply introducing and maintaining that as part of the style is the point, rather than resolving it. It's different from incompetent writing as it is evoking a mood reminiscent of The X-Files and government conspiracy theories that is the point, and given their cultural milieu and reason for existence, those things cannot really be resolved and explained, because obscurity is essential to them. That is because it's not really ‘mystery’ in the proper sense of the word (the inexpressible, but in itself intelligible) that is in question, but rather something like its opposite or counterfeit—the obscure, the unintelligible, the confusing. (Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that vain obscurity is good writing, but rather that it's about capturing the quality of the phenomenon.)

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

They seriously thought that would be impressive? In 2020? Fucktards. Developers need to start focusing on AI more. FEAR was a good start, but no body ran with that. Shitty video game AI is the ultimate immersion breaker (which 99.9% of games have).

Being able to interact with everything and having things work like they should, like containers holding things properly (that could be interesting for future inventory systems [and at least in this game means you can catch headcrabs out of the air]) and having pressure control that lets you do little things like crush cans, is impressive.

The stupid thing however is there are many things you can pick up that seem like you should be able to use as a weapon, and the way the game lets you interact with everything you'd think you'd be able to use the, as weapons, but the game doesn't let you use them as melee weapons. Not allowing you to use stuff in the environment as a melee weapon (especially when a crowbar is basically the symbol of Half-Life) seems like such a dumb boneheaded move I'm wondering if they'll patch that in later.

 

[Sentinel]

The original was build around stuff like the X-files i guess it's fitting that they seem unable to answer anything because they probably have no idea themselves, just like the show.

It's not that they're unable to, it's that they don't want to. It's a situation similar to Twin Peaks and the identity of the murderer. Once the answer is out there, everyone loses interest in it. People only talk about G-Man because he's so mysterious.

 

[Doktor Best]

The Heavy AI ain't meant to fight against Headcrabs.

I won't even dignify that of a reply.

Ah, yes, the Marph video where he makes fun of a very specific bug (and he knows far better than most of us, having an entire series of Half Life oddities videos). And you posted it as a proof of what, exactly? The title itself is exaggerated for trolling purposes.

You could argue that it's a well-known fact that the Combine AI is gimped in other ways: only two soldiers in every squad can attack at the same time, grenades are likewise limited to a single active one, all weapon damage for Combine soldiers is lowered compared to player-owned weapons and grenade timing is, if I remember right, cut short of roughly 30% compared to player grenades, only Elites can use secondary fire... modders have to multiply squads to get the player under real pressure in most cases.

And you had to get a meme video from a guy who has an entire series on Half Life's oddities.

What were you trying to say? That the horrible Combine AI, purposefully crippled to let VR players survive encounters with as many as three soldiers, isn't a travesty compared to even 1998 Marine scripting?

As I said, I have nothing to comment on Alyx: it's not a shooter, it's a walking sim. I am simply disappointed that Half Life, commonly held as a good example of tactical AI, has dropped the ball even on that one.

Have you played a VR FPS yet? You arent captain awesome supersoldier there with perfect aim and lightning fast reflexes, you pretty much act like some clueless civilian who is thrown in a gunfight encounter with wonky aiming, loss of orientation and all that. Hell even reloading can become a problem if you are pressured. Its a whole different ballpark and therefor these 1to1 comparisons are stupid and meaningless.

 

[Egosphere]

So did they push the story in any meaningful direction or are they just doing the Lost schtick where everything is kraaazy and mysteeeerious without ever explaining anything ever?

Funny you should mention Lost. From the half life wiki, the White Forest article:

In the base, an Easter egg referring to the TV series Lost can be found. In Uriah's lab, there is an inaccessible room containing a computer terminal with the six factors of the Valenzetti Equation shown on the screen and, on the wall, a Dharma-style octagon with the three pines from the White Forest logo in the middle. According to Steve Bond, many Valve employees are fans of Lost, and they noticed several strong Half-Life references in the first season of Lost. Gabe Newell and Lost creator J. J. Abrams exchanged e-mails, and Newell promised Abrams there would be a Lost reference in Episode Two, and this room was created.[4] This being merely an Easter egg, the connection between the two universes is however not to be considered canon.

 

[schru]

There was a Half-Life reference in Lost before that:

 

[Wirdschowerdn]