World of Darkness Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs

[Storyfag]

Some of the best CRPGs out there do acknowledge the PCs rapid raise to power and do explain it lore-wise. Bloodlines, MotB, KotOR II and hell, even KotOR I.

MotB doesn't. You advance in power because you adventure and gain XP, same as anything in D&D. Bloodlines also doesn't explain it. "Caine has been powering you up" is an unconfirmed theory at best, fan-fiction at worst.

Except you are a devourer of souls in MotB... As for Bloodlines, I'll grant you that it is not explained. But it is acknowledged, multiple times.

 

[Lambach]

Except you are a devourer of souls in MotB...

But minus the ending where you chose to embrace and master the Curse, you do not really have any rapid spikes in power that don't make sense lore-wise, a la Bloodlines. You start as a (talented) peasant in bumfuck nowhere in NWN2, then adventure your way up into a superpower - exactly the same as any other D&D adventurer who survives for long enough. The only "You are Special(TM)" attribute you have is the connection to the Blade of Gith, and even that is not reflective of your power, it's just a special mcguffin used for one or two specific purposes.

Contrast that to Bloodlines where in the span of a couple of weeks you go from a nobody Fledgling to an unstoppable juggernaut of desctruction flinging level 5 Disciplines (which take a century or more for all Vampires who aren't video-game protagonists to master) and killing Elders who would, lore-wise, reduce you to ash with a stern glare.

 

[Lacrymas]

Except you are a devourer of souls in MotB... As for Bloodlines, I'll grant you that it is not explained. But it is acknowledged, multiple times.

There's a term for that, it's called lampshading. It's usually not a positive thing.

You start as a (talented) peasant in bumfuck nowhere in NWN2, then adventure your way up into a superpower - exactly the same as any other D&D adventurer who survives for long enough.

Well, lore-wise it isn't like this. The levels represent achieved status in your chosen class, you can't become a lvl 15 Druid without becoming an archdruid of a grove for example. There are only ever just a few archdruids and not everyone can get there.

 

[vortex]

hopw roewur ne = hope dies last (or at last) isn't it?

 

[Lacrymas]

Trying to explain hopw roewur ne is hopw roewur ne.

 

[Storyfag]

Except you are a devourer of souls in MotB... As for Bloodlines, I'll grant you that it is not explained. But it is acknowledged, multiple times.

There's a term for that, it's called lampshading. It's usually not a positive thing.

A nice lampshade is more than welcome. But you, I see, are too much of a moronic mongrel to comprehend that.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Except you are a devourer of souls in MotB... As for Bloodlines, I'll grant you that it is not explained. But it is acknowledged, multiple times.

There's a term for that, it's called lampshading. It's usually not a positive thing.

A nice lampshade is more than welcome. But you, I see, are too much of a moronic mongrel to comprehend that.

He just enjoys being contrarian and nitpicky about games.

 

[Storyfag]

Except you are a devourer of souls in MotB... As for Bloodlines, I'll grant you that it is not explained. But it is acknowledged, multiple times.

There's a term for that, it's called lampshading. It's usually not a positive thing.

A nice lampshade is more than welcome. But you, I see, are too much of a moronic mongrel to comprehend that.

He just enjoys being contrarian and nitpicky about games.

And I shall enjoy fleshcrafting him into a latrine for the szlachta

 

[Lacrymas]

A nice lampshade is more than welcome. But you, I see, are too much of a moronic mongrel to comprehend that.

Where is this aggression coming from?

 

[Storyfag]

A nice lampshade is more than welcome. But you, I see, are too much of a moronic mongrel to comprehend that.

Where is this aggression coming from?

Why from the Land Beyond the Forest, of course. Do not test the patience of the Dragon.

 

[Lacrymas]

A lampshade is only good when it's done with style, humor or to mimick real life chaos when it's appropriate, not just to say it's there. Just pointing it out seems more like you are trying to shut up criticism before it emerges. You can argue that it sparked a discussion around it, but the implications it sets up actually damage the writing more than it helps. And as a self-proclaimed storyfag, you should be able to see that.

 

[Storyfag]

A lampshade is only good when it's done with style, humor or to mimick real life chaos when it's appropriate, not just to say it's there. Just pointing it out seems more like you are trying to shut up criticism before it emerges. You can argue that it sparked a discussion around it, but the implications it sets up actually damage the writing more than it helps. And as a self-proclaimed storyfag, you should be able to see that.

As a self-proclaimed storyfag I am well aware of the dangers of lampshade hanging. However the example present in Bloodlines is done professionaly enough so as to not be a problem.

 

[Lacrymas]

Except it's not done well because it doesn't make sense. Not within the game itself and not within the lore.

 

[Lambach]

Well, lore-wise it isn't like this. The levels represent achieved status in your chosen class, you can't become a lvl 15 Druid without becoming an archdruid of a grove for example. There are only ever just a few archdruids and not everyone can get there.

That's not really the point - in NWN2/MotB you could say the power you have is kind of fast-tracked because normally it would take longer to reach it, but still, from level 1 - 28/29/30 the protagonist accomplishes an insane amount of shit, including slaying an ancient evil spawned from the source of all magic itself or waging a Crusade against one of the most powerful Deities of the setting by directly assaulting his city, which in D&D lore means he gets lots of experience and therefore advances in level. And the advancement is relatively linear and gradual. You start by beating up local peasant bullies at a fair, then you're up against some semi-trained murderous midgets, then you're fighting basic undead, then street thugs, orcs etc. Standard D&D fare to a T.

In Bloodlines, you have abilities that lore-wise you quite literally can't. Let's use a really simple example - when you refuse to see Grout, LaCroix Dominates you into it, meaning he's the same Gen as you at the minimum, and almost certainly lower. Then in the final scene of the game, he can no longer Dominate you. Why is that? Did you lower your Generation to below his in the meantime? The only way to do that, according to VtM lore, is through either the 3rd level of Path of Blood (and only temporarily) or Diablerie. The game never even hints at the protagonist using either. I've seen the "you can resist Dominate powers with Willpower" argument, but that would imply that you're suddenly able to resist several attempts of a Vampire shown as quite adept at this Discipline in a row, whereas just a few short weeks back, he did it on the first attempt. Did LaCroix's dice rolls just happen to be that shitty at that precise moment in time?

 

[Lacrymas]

I think we can all agree this whole situation is a mess and bringing up the actual lore makes it worse. The devs just wanted you to feel badass (something which is damaged if it's indeed the vampire god behind you, it's not you who is the badass it's the power you get from your daddy) without considering the lore implications.

 

[Delterius]

I think its pretty cool and Caine solves all lore problems.

 

[Storyfag]

Except it's not done well because it doesn't make sense. Not within the game itself and not within the lore.

And you dare ask me where is my aggression coming from?



You filthy little ex-twink! I shall fleshcraft your lips off, and permanently lodge your dick in your own anus!

 

[Lambach]

I think its pretty cool and Caine solves all lore problems.

Is there a hopw roewur ne competition going on that I don't know about?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

ex-twink!

 

[Storyfag]

ex-twink!

If I recall correctly, Lacrymas no longer qualifies due to age

 

[Lacrymas]

I've never been a twink.

I think its pretty cool and Caine solves all lore problems.

He "solves" them in the way a deus ex machina "solves" a plot. It's simply bad writing all around. A wizard did it, along with raising a bunch of other questions in the process.

 

[Nano]

I've never been a twink.

Then what would you classify yourself as?

 

[Lacrymas]

Then what would you classify yourself as?

More like an otter, lol. I certainly have the body hair for it.

 

[Delterius]

I've never been a twink.

I think its pretty cool and Caine solves all lore problems.

He "solves" them in the way a deus ex machina "solves" a plot. It's simply bad writing all around. A wizard did it, along with raising a bunch of other questions in the process.

Caine is always with us, neonate.

 

[Sailor Woedica]

Caine just gets his life from drama like other people get it from a Dua Lipa song.