I've noticed in Fallout 2 and some other CRPG's that there's some mild gate-keeping when you're underleveled. Are there any RPG's where there are no level limits and the game rewards you disproportionately for doing it at a lower level?
The reward for being in a high-level zone when low level or doing quests there is the higher level loot, unless stats requirements prevent you from using it. Bad design is an item being useless as by the you get the necessary stats, there is generally better loot, i.e. the item being useless even if you go through the hassle of getting it at a lower level.I've noticed in Fallout 2 and some other CRPG's that there's some mild gate-keeping when you're underleveled. Are there any RPG's where there are no level limits and the game rewards you disproportionately for doing it at a lower level?
I've noticed in Fallout 2 and some other CRPG's that there's some mild gate-keeping when you're underleveled. Are there any RPG's where there are no level limits and the game rewards you disproportionately for doing it at a lower level?
I don't know if fallout 2 is supposed to be hard or if my character sucked, but back when i played F2 years ago, i was dying in every random encounter and also triggering random encounters on every step in the world map.
It was the very definition of reload simulator.
All 3.5 D&D games do that. The higher the difference between your party level and enemies level, the more XP you get. Not that there are that many 3.5 D&D CRPGs, but that still covers Icewind Dale 2, both Neverwinter Nights, Temple of Elemental Evil and Pool of Radiance : Ruins of Myth Drannor.Are there any RPG's where there are no level limits and the game rewards you disproportionately for doing it at a lower level?
Basically all of them. I can't think of a single RPG that is more enjoyable at higher levels than they are at the beginning, with the possible exception of getting out of that very first level.
The reward for being in a high-level zone when low level or doing quests there is the higher level loot, unless stats requirements prevent you from using it. Bad design is an item being useless as by the you get the necessary stats, there is generally better loot, i.e. the item being useless even if you go through the hassle of getting it at a lower level.I've noticed in Fallout 2 and some other CRPG's that there's some mild gate-keeping when you're underleveled. Are there any RPG's where there are no level limits and the game rewards you disproportionately for doing it at a lower level?
That is why I said "rewards you disproportionately"- like there is a bonus alongside the obvious impact created by the disparity.Most rewards in most RPGs are more impactful at low level by default.
, unless stats requirements prevent you from using it. Bad design is an item being useless as by the you get the necessary stats, there is generally better loot, i.e. the item being useless even if you go through the hassle of getting it at a lower level.
All 3.5 D&D games do that. The higher the difference between your party level and enemies level, the more XP you get. Not that there are that many 3.5 D&D CRPGs, but that still covers Icewind Dale 2, both Neverwinter Nights, Temple of Elemental Evil and Pool of Radiance : Ruins of Myth Drannor.
Now, PoR : RoMD is technically 3ed and not 3.5, and It's virtually impossible to get to higher level enemies with a low level party in ID2 unless you deliberately refrain from leveling up, but still.
Sounds like complete waste of development effort, also oblivion due to shitty level scaling and exploitable leveling mechanics.That is why I said "rewards you disproportionately"- like there is a bonus alongside the obvious impact created by the disparity.Most rewards in most RPGs are more impactful at low level by default.
oblivion due to shitty level scaling and exploitable leveling mechanics.
Did wotc work closely with them when they were making this? It came out like a month after 3.5e books were publishedand ToEE are 3.5.
That's the definition of an RPG.Sounds like complete waste of development effort
And there hasn't been a single legitimate western example. Sad!Well... since:
If you look at evolution stages as levels, Pokémon rewards you for being "underleveled" by giving you stronger moves. If you choose to gimp yourself by not letting a Mudkip evolve until level 41, you get Hydro Pump as a reward.
This applies to a lot of old tactical jrpgs; fire emblem and shining force for example. You can 'promote' to a new, better class at level 20, but you can also continue levelling up to 30 before promoting for extra stats, which is a permanent advantage since promotion resets your level to 20 effectively, as far as xp scaling goes. This is an odd fit for the theme though, since you're actually acquiring more xp to pull this off. Holding off on promotion might also unlock different, better classes whether by finding loot that enables new classes or having higher required stats in something like ogre battle.Well... since:
If you look at evolution stages as levels, Pokémon rewards you for being "underleveled" by giving you stronger moves. If you choose to gimp yourself by not letting a Mudkip evolve until level 41, you get Hydro Pump as a reward.
There's a logic behind it. In a more open game, opportunity cost becomes a thing. It doesn't matter if slaying a troll gives you 50% more xp at low levels if slaying rats also gives 50% more xp at low levels and takes much less time. So the troll should give you 200% more xp instead. DND tends to be bad for this because the scaling is just based on absolute level difference, not the proportion. So level 2 killing a level 6 gives the same extra xp (ie not fucking worth it) as level 14 killing level 18, even though that's a pretty small difference. Diablo clones are super retarded about this; if you managed to kill shit 10 levels above you then you start getting less xp than someone matching the level.Sounds like complete waste of development effort, also oblivion due to shitty level scaling and exploitable leveling mechanics.That is why I said "rewards you disproportionately"- like there is a bonus alongside the obvious impact created by the disparity.Most rewards in most RPGs are more impactful at low level by default.
ADOM and Nethack (where it cribbed religion from) also give you better rewards for sacrificing things on altars when you're a lower level. You can get artifacts if you sacrifice a lot at a low level. And don't get disintegrated by fucking it up. Getting to the first guaranteed altar at a low level to exploit that is a pretty viable strategy in both games. Well, moreso in Nethack, ADOM's offering rules are really fucky and you need to be a mega autist to get more than one artifact out of it without fucking yourself out of the endgame quests.Lots of quests in ADOM are level-gated (e.g. can only enter the pyramid between levels 13-16, quest to kill Kranach is only available below level six), and some quests are easier if you do them at lower levels (e.g. the first quest for Thrundarr).
In Caves of Qud, you get a better reward for completing the Golgotha quest if you are lower level.
Go back to the kitchen.Oblivion > Morrowind + Skyrim because its level scaling keeps "the challenge" up.
Oblivion > Morrowind + Skyrim because its level scaling keeps "the challenge" up.