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Let's See Who's More Prestigious: RPG Codex or RPGWatch!

Which combat system do you prefer?

  • Turn-based

  • Time-based turns

  • Real-time

  • Real-time with Pause

  • UgoIgo (copyright Chien) [I think this should be our King Comrade entry]

  • I don't care, I like them all

  • I don't like combat


Results are only viewable after voting.

Goldschmidt

Learned
Joined
Oct 27, 2019
Messages
461
Location
Swen Vincke's bedroom (Ghent)
Anyone dares to pvp me in real time on a lvl 28 premade character in the BEST rpg of this decade?

For those who are not aware, i am half trolling this forums some times but there is a grain of truth in what I say.
 

Scarlet Lilith

Learned
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
116
Location
❤️Hell❤️
I don't understand how you could care about this when the game being grindy or not and how the combat system interacts with the encounters is much more important. If the game throws a ton of enemies at you all the time then they should be quick to deal with and real-time is most suited for the game, if the game is about intricate and well designed battles then turn-based is the best. If Baldur's Gate would have been turn-based you'd probably think about uninstalling rather quickly, but the real-time combat makes the combat endurable.

Maybe it won't be very popular to say on this forum, but Fallout not having real-time combat was a huge mistake since there really isn't that much going on in the fights and it takes forever for everything to make their moves. Like, dude, you can feel yourself growing old between turns. Phase-based and simultaneous turns can also work to lessen the deadtime.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,087
Location
Bulgaria
Anyone dares to pvp me in real time on a lvl 28 premade character in the BEST rpg of this decade?

For those who are not aware, i am half trolling this forums some times but there is a grain of truth in what I say.
So,skyrim have a multiplayer now?
 

jac8awol

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Messages
408
Great work guys. And when we get done with this let's please set up a poll about batman vs superman too. RPGcodex: changing minds, saving lives
 

deama

Prophet
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
4,352
Location
UK
I'm torn between turn based and phase based. I think phase based works for if you can have a decently sized party, but it doesn't work well if you have a small party (less than 3?), e.g. it definitely wouldn't work well in age of decadence.

My vote goes to phase based if it's implemented well.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,052
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I don't understand how you could care about this when the game being grindy or not and how the combat system interacts with the encounters is much more important. If the game throws a ton of enemies at you all the time then they should be quick to deal with and real-time is most suited for the game, if the game is about intricate and well designed battles then turn-based is the best. If Baldur's Gate would have been turn-based you'd probably think about uninstalling rather quickly, but the real-time combat makes the combat endurable.

Maybe it won't be very popular to say on this forum, but Fallout not having real-time combat was a huge mistake since there really isn't that much going on in the fights and it takes forever for everything to make their moves. Like, dude, you can feel yourself growing old between turns. Phase-based and simultaneous turns can also work to lessen the deadtime.

I mean, if the virtue of RTwP is making shit encounter design more bearable, that's not really a virtue, is it? If your game has shit encounter design, just fix the goddamn encounter design instead of implementing a combat system that makes bad encounters bearable. I don't want my combat to be bearable, I want it to be fun.

That's not to say RTwP can't be fun. It can be (7.62 High Calibre) but it's not any more or less suited for horde encounters than TB. Some TB games like Jagged Alliance 2 and Silent Storm have pretty large encounters. Battle Brothers has a dozen player characters vs 20 enemies on the regular. It works well when animations are quick, or when enemy movement animations are displayed simultaneously (ToEE).

Fallout's combat isn't particularly great, but neither is it particularly bad. Its main issue is AI turns taking long due to slow animations (that beggar guy when you start a fight in the cities in Fallout 2... holy fuck), which could easily be fixed with an animation speed slider.

RTwP can be as much of a time waster as slow TB. Neverwinter Nights is the perfect example of an RTwP game that feels slow and boring, because it simulates "rounds" which take 6 seconds, so striking down an enemy in 3 hits already takes 18 seconds. Combine that with the game's terrible trash mob encounter design and you got a game that wastes your time like no other.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
I don't understand how you could care about this when the game being grindy or not and how the combat system interacts with the encounters is much more important. If the game throws a ton of enemies at you all the time then they should be quick to deal with and real-time is most suited for the game, if the game is about intricate and well designed battles then turn-based is the best. If Baldur's Gate would have been turn-based you'd probably think about uninstalling rather quickly, but the real-time combat makes the combat endurable.

In the Baldur's Gate that exists in their heads, a turn-based BG would have fewer battles. I find this optimistic. After all, Pool of Radiance wasn't shy about throwing hordes and hordes of enemies at you.
a2F0Spy.png


Maybe it won't be very popular to say on this forum, but Fallout not having real-time combat was a huge mistake since there really isn't that much going on in the fights and it takes forever for everything to make their moves. Like, dude, you can feel yourself growing old between turns. Phase-based and simultaneous turns can also work to lessen the deadtime.

Use SFall to make the animations look absurdly fast.
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,184
Location
Bjørgvin
That's not to say RTwP can't be fun. It can be (7.62 High Calibre) but it's not any more or less suited for horde encounters than TB.

I'd say the more enemies, or rather the more happening at once, the less suited it is. At least in the IE games the most complex battles can easily turn into a clusterfuck where you can lose control and track of who's doing what.
I suspect the lack of complete control you have with a TB system is why some hate RTwP.
 

Scarlet Lilith

Learned
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
116
Location
❤️Hell❤️
In the Baldur's Gate that exists in their heads, a turn-based BG would have fewer battles. I find this optimistic. After all, Pool of Radiance wasn't shy about throwing hordes and hordes of enemies at you.
Right! The amount of and the size of battles and stuff stems more from the vision and scope of the game than from the system they choose to use, and Bioware made the right decision for what they were going for.
Use SFall to make the animations look absurdly fast.
Sure, that may be a thing, but if you play the game as it was intended then if you shoot someone in the street in a hub, or encounter a lot of enemies then the game becomes unbearably slow and there's no complexity there to justify it. You're just waiting for things to happen, watching people and creatures slowly waddle around one at a time. It would have made so much more sense if everyone moved simultaneously every turn or if it was RTwP.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
It would have made so much more sense if everyone moved simultaneously [...]

Sure but let's not forget the game was released in 1997, the first good game that i know of doing this is ToEE and was released 6 years later, in the 90's, 6 years was a lot for video games.

or if it was RTwP

:shunthenonbeliever:

Gather your torches, it's time to burn a witch! :fight:
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
17,948
Pathfinder: Wrath
I'm pretty sure rogue-likes have had simultaneous movement for enemies for forever.
 

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
Patron
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
7,513
Location
Pronouns: rusts/rusty
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Oh yeah, you mean 4 @ moving simultaneously toward a € sign ?
I'm sure it was draining half of the processor's performance back then ...
Baldur's Gate is from 1998 and it was able to handle tens of creature moving at the same time. Why would any processor be able to sustain that in real time but not in turns?
 

King Crispy

Too bad I have no queen.
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
1,876,563
Location
Future Wasteland
Strap Yourselves In
We're holding at about 60% for turn-based, a full 12+ points ahead of them. Plus we've had about 240 voters so far, compared to their paltry 90 -- and their poll's been up for almost two months now.

Yeah, I'm going to call this a victory for RPG Codex. Suck it Fluent, suck it Prime Junta, suck it Myrthos; you guys are INFERIOR.
 

Bigg Boss

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2012
Messages
7,528
I misread Time Based and change my vote to Turn Based. I thought that sounded fucked up. What is a "Turn Based Turns" Bigg Boss? You dumb piece of shit.
 

Scarlet Lilith

Learned
Joined
Apr 5, 2020
Messages
116
Location
❤️Hell❤️
Gather your torches, it's time to burn a witch!
Tsk, you're not burning anyone, darth ravioli, I will bewitch you with a spell to make you appreciate RTwP more. Unless animations are more or less instant there's no valid reason to ever use single-unit-at-a-time turn-based, which means first-person dungeon crawlers, static sprite based top-down and isometric games and such. Once you start getting indulgent with animations and fidelity and you start throwing more trash combat at the player then you have officially revoked your TB card and I won't even touch your yucky game with a stick if you insist on doing so anyway. There's a reason people mod these games to speed things up. Now, about that spell, can you feel the love for the sweet ecstasy of RTwP growing in your mind yet?

HXV8JrG.gif
 

luj1

You're all shills
Vatnik
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Messages
12,877
Location
Eastern block
This poll is pretty dumb and pointless as expected from Crispy. Just look at RPG Watch Top 10 RPG of the decade... Skyrim is #2 :lol:
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,656
Sure, that may be a thing, but if you play the game as it was intended then if you shoot someone in the street in a hub, or encounter a lot of enemies then the game becomes unbearably slow and there's no complexity there to justify it. You're just waiting for things to happen, watching people and creatures slowly waddle around one at a time. It would have made so much more sense if everyone moved simultaneously every turn or if it was RTwP.

Fallout would feel different if it were rtwp (see the realtime mode of Fallout Tactics) and I wouldn't like it as much. If Tim Cain were a crackerjack coder he could have saw to it that all neutral NPCs move at the same time, but alas.
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,530
Location
Kelethin
Real-time is so under rated. Turn based is only better for a game where complex movement matters. If you need to move a tank to one location and a ranger to the side or whatever, then turn based is the only way to give you time to do all that while still being able to deal with abilities and whatnot. But not every game should have to do that. In a blobber for example, the party moves as one so you don't need to spend time moving individual characters to different places. All you need to focus on is the combat, and that makes Real-Time a possibility. If the combat is deep and tactical yet requires you to act quickly in real time, it can be really challenging. Seeing as you tend to fight a million battles in most RPGs, there is also plenty of time to ease the players into it. So you start with a few spells which is easy to handle in real time. But as you level up you get more and more stuff to use but you practice it in fight after fight and you become a pro at it in time.

Real time and deep can be as fun as turn based. Real time and shallow is retarded though, Elder Scrolls, etc.
 

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