There's no RPGs in our RPGs

[JarlFrank]

So I started playing Fallout 4 because it's in my library and I felt like playing an open world shootan RPG. It's fairly decent for what it is, pretty solid level design overall and the firefights actually feel smooth. Shit as an RPG and shit as a Fallout game, though. But I encountered one thing that made me think: when you get out of the Vault at the start, you can find a computer with a game installed on it. It's a simple Donkey Kong style game where you play as a vault boy rescuing a vault girl from a barrel-throwing mutant.

And it made me realize that in most RPG worlds, there are barely any games - let alone RPGs. Even here in Fallout 4 there's no more complex computer games than a simple arcade game, even though the pre-war society developed robots with advanced AIs (think of the strategy games you could play with AIs this advanced!) and computers were everywhere. I don't remember any computer games even being mentioned in the previous Fallouts - not in the original two games, not in New Vegas, not in Fallout 3. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think computer games are ever mentioned in those.

In sci-fi settings, there should be PC games everywhere. Spaceship operating systems would probably come with solitaire and minesweeper pre-installed. Crew members should be raving about the latest hit FPS or something. But we don't hear anything about computer games - let alone RPGs! - in sci-fi games like Mass Effect.

RPGs set in modern or future worlds should have plenty of PC games, including RPGs. They should also have pen and paper RPGs. I mean, we're playing an RPG on our current PCs right now. If the world this game is set in has computers, the logical conclusion would be that it also has CRPGs!! Also, a post-apoc world like Fallout would absolutely have a couple of whacked out preppers playing RPGs with their families. I can totally see Varg Vikernes playing MYFAROG with his 20 children as a character in a Fallout game.

Are there any RPGs that have RPGs (or other comparable games) in them?

Off the top of my head:
- that Donkey Kong clone in Fallout 4
- Disco Elysium has a pen and paper rulebook in the bookstore, and you can find the abandoned basement of some guys who wanted to develop an RPG for the radiocomputer
- Dead State has RPG books and handheld video game devices as luxury goods you can loot
- Project Zomboid also has handheld video game devices, but as of yet they don't do anything
- Might and Magic VII has Arcomage which is an in-game trading card game
- Simon the Sorcerer 2 has a scene where nerds in a fantasy world play an RPG set in our world, where instead of doing mundane everyday shit like killing dragons, you file your taxes and work an office job
- The Book of Unwritten Tales has a similar scene as Simon the Sorcerer 2, where characters in the fantasy world play an MMORPG set in our world, playing as accountants etc; both games use these scenes to deliver parodies/jokes about pen and paper/MMO RPGs, so it's not really what I'm looking for.
- The Sims 3 (and probably other entries in the series but I only played 3) lets you play computer games on your computer, but from the sounds and the imagery you can see on the screen it looks like there's only action games, no RPGs. There are no pen and paper RPGs to play with NPCs.

Any other RPGs where RPGs (or other types of computer games or board games comparable to RPGs (trading card games, wargames, etc)) exist?

 

[Strange Fellow]

. I don't remember any computer games even being mentioned in the previous Fallouts - not in the original two games, not in New Vegas, not in Fallout 3. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think computer games are ever mentioned in those.

Someone plays Fallout 1 in Fallout 2 IIRC.

 

[Fowyr]

System Shock 1 has mini-games.
System Shock 2 has a lot of games, even OverWorld Zero - Aklabeth-like game.
Might and Magic 8 has Arcomage as well.
Ultima Underworld 2 has white rock - black rock game and a its much weirder variant on the Astral Plane.
Fallout 2 has Tragic the Gathering cards and you can play it in Gecko.
Cataclysm: DDA has some mini-games.

 

[SausageInYourFace]

- Simon the Sorcerer 2 has a scene where nerds in a fantasy world play an RPG set in our world, where instead of doing mundane everyday shit like killing dragons, you file your taxes and work an office job

I remember listening to that whole thing when I was a kid and it seemed to go on forever. It was so awesome and I was disappointed when it was over. And today, we have these pnp streamers on youtube and twitch. Simon was way ahead!

 

[Gregz]

Wizardry 8 retro dungeons?

 

[Ghulgothas]

I am both happy and surprised you left Gwent out of your list.

But yeah, Gwent is by far the biggest in recent memory that was fully realized and not played off as an in-joke.

 

[DalekFlay]

I don't know why this is what popped into my mind first, because I am not a JRPG fan at all really, but I remember Final Fantasy VIII having a really good card game built into it. I know Mass Effect referenced future video games but I don't believe we ever saw one.

Not an RPG but Doom Eternal has the boxes for the original Doom games on the shelf in your "office," along with an old DOS era computer.

 

[JarlFrank]

If we consider an earlier game in the series being included as an easter egg, being able to play the original Maniac Mansion on Ed's PC in Day of the Tentacle would count too.

 

[Arbiter]

IIRC there is a computer game in Fallout 1 demo.
Old Wolfenstein and its mirror copy in NuWolfenstein games
Card game in M&M 6 and/or 7
Super Turbo Turkey Puchar
The Lost Viking in SC2

 

[Krivol]

You can find computer with Wasteland 2 running in Wasteland 1 IIRC. That's a mind blow!

 

[Arbiter]

Audio logs in Doom 3 reference PnP RPG games.

 

[ItsChon]

In Underrail, when you're in the basement of a certain sexy homicidal woman, you have the option to play a game while you're rifiling through her computer. When you click the game option it takes you to a single option which says "Play Underrail" and upon selecting it you get exited out of the dialogue box. I think that counts right?

 

[deuxhero]

Jagged Alliance 2 had one type of RPG launcher. It was important during the end-game since it was one of exceptionally few ways to deal with the tanks protecting the captial.

 

[Ghulgothas]

Do examples of games having token D&D stand-ins that're played as jokes or used as justification for high-fantasy themed content count? Grottos & Gremlins, Bunkers & Badasses, Hollows & Hobbes etc.

 

[Bergblatstein]

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Reign_of_Grelok

Didn't NeoScavenger have same game you could find on laptops beside cat pictures?

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Moonrise]

Are there any RPGs that have RPGs (or other comparable games) in them?

Mass Effect comes to mind. There's a game shop on the citadel. Oh, and btw, there is an RPG for your Pip-Boy. You just haven't found it yet.

I wish they still made roleplaying games like they used to. These days it's all 'big choices' and 'visceral combat.' I miss those old games where you had to remember to drink water, and it took you five hours real time to fly somewhere!

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

- Simon the Sorcerer 2 has a scene where nerds in a fantasy world play an RPG set in our world, where instead of doing mundane everyday shit like killing dragons, you file your taxes and work an office job
- The Book of Unwritten Tales has a similar scene as Simon the Sorcerer 2, where characters in the fantasy world play an MMORPG set in our world, playing as accountants etc; both games use these scenes to deliver parodies/jokes about pen and paper/MMO RPGs, so it's not really what I'm looking for.

A direct reference to a classic illustration depicting a party of adventurers playing Papers & Paychecks, from the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide in 1979:

 

[Infinitron]

I loved that scene:

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

In Prey some crew members play some kind of P&P RPG akin to D&D. You can find the character sheet, their audio log of the game, etc.

 

[Butter]

Seems like a weird thing to want. Do you want shooters to contain in-universe shooters? Those mini-games can serve as a fun little diversion, but if you need an RPG to divert your attention from the RPG you're playing, maybe you're playing a really shitty RPG.

 

[ghostdog]

I loved that scene:

daum! I had forgotten how amazing Simon's pixel art was...

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

RPGs are sorta niche in real-life so it's not that weird that you don't run into them in gameworlds. Also recreational activities of any kind are rarely a focus in RPGs. It's not like you don't run into RPGs in Fallout. You don't run into any sort of entertainment save for drugs, alcohol and hookers. There are no musicians, no theater, no sport, no writers, no poets, no storyteller, no nothing. Sure you'd expect that culture declined in the future, but kids in Fallout games don't even play pretend.
In later games there is some entertainmet, but only in the designated "entertainment places". I guess people in places like Klamath or NCR just do nothing all day long until they save-up enough money to go on vacation to New Reno/New Vegas.

Regarding the list:
-As far as I remember Arcomage is not a collectible card game. It's competitive, but both players use identical decks
-There is Pazaak in KoTOR

 

[Moonrise]

Seems like a weird thing to want.

I think what he's getting at, it's like how in some games there are a conspicuous lack of toilets. Things like that can be jarring. Game devs will pour all kinds of work into world building, and forget the simple fact that people play. There being no reference to people playing games within games is a jarring omission. Bioware is really, really good at this kind of stuff. Like in Inquisition, there's a whole quest relating to a romance novel. Because of course there are romance novels. Why wouldn't there be.

 

[deuxhero]

in Fallout [...] There are no musicians, no theater, no sport, no writers, no poets, no storyteller, no nothing.

Are we only counting the original? I think all of those can be found in 2 and NV.
Musicians/Storyteller: Lonesome Drifter, The Kings, some very clearly post-war songs on Radio New Vegas (Home on the Wastes).
Sport: Boxing in New Reno, The Thorn. Mr. New Vegas alluds to skiing happening in the mountains.
Poets: That kid from the Great Kahns
Theater: Technically any place showing the porn made in New Reno and the old Gladiator holos Arcade mentions is a theater.

The comedians in New Reno and Vegas are worth a mention too.