Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
- Jagged Alliance 2 and Renowned Explorers are 10/10
- Xenonaut, XCOM I/TFTD and Jagged Alliance I are 8/10
- I really would not recommend the Expeditions game. I felt combats were long and artificial.
- Jagged Alliance 2 and Renowned Explorers are 10/10
- Xenonaut, XCOM I/TFTD and Jagged Alliance I are 8/10
- I really would not recommend the Expeditions game. I felt combats were long and artificial.
Easy, UFO Defense and Terror from the Deep are immense classic. I have played & finished UFO Defense only once but finished TFDT twice including once in self-imposed Ironman, plus all the time where I started them and did not finish them (mostly TFDT again).
BUT while they have impressive beginning of the game, there is a small transition over time toward tediousness in both those games due to :
- Mind Control. Not the enemy Mind Controlling you, but you Mind Controlling them, until you find the dudes with...
.- .. the Pulse Launcher [or whatever the name was in UFO Defense] which is problem #2 : a weapon that is the most devastating in the game and cannot miss, and whose only drawback that you cannot shoot it in close combat. Except if you are currently a mind -controlled alien, in which case it has 0 drawbacks you don't care.
- The third problem is the length & nature of the two stages Terror Missions, and way worse the GOOD DAMN ALIEN BASES.
What you DO remember as being awesome is those early terror missions where you have Gauss Rifles, and maybe not even enough for all your men, or maybe the careful preparation before assaulting a landed alien ship. But I don't think you remember fondly about base attack #4, where the first part is chain mass controlling alien until you find the lift and just have all aliens shoot pulse launchers at each other, and then the slow drudge to destroy the core of the enemy base and bolt out.
That's three huge "but" that stop those games from having a perfect score, because it really corrupts the second half of any run you will do.
There is a good reason why Xenonauts removed Mind Control from the player (with the cheeky line when you research it). It hurted UFO Defense and TFTD, it hurt them badly. Now Xenonauts failed at restoring the absolutely perfect atmospher and art of TFTD, and you can't destroy everything, so it loses points there, while UFO Defense is generally not as great as TFTD but does not have (iirc) two stages terror missions and base assaults, so its 9/10 is turned into a 8/10 (vs 10/10 => 8/10 for TFDT).
Jagged Alliance 2 got a 10/10 because it remains fresh from the beginning (desperate combat with pistols) until almost the end (where the enemy is raining mortar shells on you and you have to remove tanks from the map). It should even be 11/10 for adding stuff like multiple way to source mercenaries, all the over-the-top and cool line, and the dude that did not repain my rifle on time because he had to repair the microwave of his cousin or whatever, all that little fluff missing in UFO / TFDT... but that you can find in Renowned Explorer.
As for Renowned Explorer being "a mobile garbage", I will only ask "did you play it ?"
By the way, about tactical game, thinking of two othersr :
- Massive Chalice, great concept, horrible balancing. It tries to mix-up XCOM with Crusader Kings (ie you have "dynasty" of warrior that you kind of "breed" and allocate to position, until they are called to serve to the defense of the realm). Sadly, it does neither very well but it is worth one run. Typical example is that what you face does not have any progression... until about mid-game where suddenly all the enemies become elite version much more dangerous, so the difficult curve ias you progress in the game is "Average - Trivial - Trivial - REALLY HARD - Average - Easy" Weird.
- Laser Squad Nemesis, which is a solid 10/10 in multiplayer - Julian Galllop game. I am not sure you can find it legally anymore, it is a XCOM with simultaneous turns and 4 different playable factions (so you give your dudes orders, and Rule of Engagement if they see an hostile).
I recently finished UFO again without using mind control at all (although not on the highest difficulty). If you don't like it, just don't use it. If by pulse rifle you mean the guided missile launcher, not being able to use it in close quarters is a huge disadvantage since you'll always end up milling through corridors, whether it's in a craft or a base. I didn't use it much for that reason, and also because it has to be reloaded after every shot and so is less efficient against squishier targets than a regular heavy plasma in the hands of a decent soldier, unless you happen to catch the aliums in clusters.
No idea what your problem is with terror or base missions. You walk around, you blast aliums. If you don't like that, you don't like the regular missions either.
Yes Expedition games (in fairness I should say "game" I finished Conquistador but did not play Viking so maybe it changed) has long and heavily RNG combat, though at least a lot is at stake and each combat and losing a battle is not game-over. Some of the level deisign have your 6 - 8 soldiers engaging in a long shooting match with the 6 - 8 guys on the other side, with 34% of chance of hitting and a doctor healing as much as he can (though I don't remember if the AI is using a doctor as well). Any one trying to cross the battlefield between the two sides is immediately gunned down (or shot down with arrow). The more interesting combats are also the most unfair - the ones where you must retreat or the ones where the enemies spawn on top of you.
Contrast with Renowned Explorers which has limited RNG (100% chance to hit except when character use attitude that they are not supposed to use, the real RNG is only on the amount of damage dealt). Combats are fairly short and have significant complexity as you must manage (since any action can modify it)
- the attitude (whether a character is happy / daring / depressed of whatever) of your character and their character,
- the mood (brutal, escalated, etc),
- the end result of the encounter (whether you were overall friendly, agressive or devious, which can have both impact depending on the nature of the encounter and on your stats / special powers).
... in addition to standard tactical stuff (two type of resistances, some characters having immunities or bonus vs certain attitudes, AOE attack vs single target attack, buff & debuff , etc...).
It is one of the smartest combat designs I have ever seen, and I play a LOT of tactical or strategy games of all sorts, or grognard stuff. Combat in RE works impeccably well, remains interesting until the very last combat.
I recently finished UFO again without using mind control at all (although not on the highest difficulty). If you don't like it, just don't use it. If by pulse rifle you mean the guided missile launcher, not being able to use it in close quarters is a huge disadvantage since you'll always end up milling through corridors, whether it's in an alium craft or a base. I didn't use it much for that reason, and also because it has to be reloaded after every shot and so is less efficient against squishier targets than a regular heavy plasma in the hands of a decent soldier, unless you happen to catch the aliums in clusters.
No idea what your problem is with terror or base missions either. You walk around, you blast aliums. If you don't like that, you don't like the regular missions either.
As I said I completed UFO defense only once, but I did not remember the alien bases in UFO defense being the absolute horror they were (IMO) in TFDT (I quite liked the alien colonies with the pyramids though). In general, I think closed combat assault don't work very well in isometric tactical combat, JA2 had the same theorical problem but avoided it with smart level design, the worst maps in Chaos Gate were the two Space Hulk maps and the Temple of Chaos and, well, I discussed TFDT (though in general I likes assaulting ships there). I think it is due to either the AI being an idiot and you just waiting for him on the other side of the door, or the AI playing the waiting game and you have to assault, and for games without smoke ("smoke" grenades are useless in TFDT ) it is just going to be a roll of dice vs the enemy overwatch.
Congratulation for finishing UFO defense again (Ironman ?) - on my side for TFDT I found that receiving missiles that never miss in the face frustrating, and MC was the only reliable counter I found against that.
TROUBLESHOOTER: Abandoned Children is a Korean game that shouldn´t work but it does. If you can pass the anime graphics and engrish translation is a very deep and customizable SRPG . I'm 30 hours in the game and still finding new systems, combinations and things to do. Frankly I am only scratching the surface of the game. For example you have hundreds of masteries (Perks) that range from the boring x% to hit/crit/resist to more elaborated like always dodge the first attack the situational like more block in the bushes, to the likes of resurrecting, next ability doesn't use an action point or if there is x effect instakill the target.
Huge amount of customization, options and good difficulty makes a game you want to replay. Which for all missions (story, and all others) you can replay in game whenever you want. And you kinda since the game is kinda grindy (masteries, materiales, etc.) . Besides a somewhat grindy nature and the engrish, it has a very anime story. It's a good anime story, with nice characters and the right amount of cringe and edginess, but is there. I don't know if that is a deal braker for you (graphics are, like, anime but not very so).
First, to truly appreciate UFO, you had to play it back then, because all the mechanism you take from granted comes from the UFO era.
The fact is, nobody has been able to come even close to the UFO formula in all these years.
Sure, the game isn't perfect (deployment issues before you get the transport upgrades, great tactical battles but can be tedious when you have to many of them in a row) but it's damn close.
I don't even know how many times i completed UFO (i played it on playstation with a mouse back then, yes, it had a mouse), the game was so good i spent hours playing with friends, we would divide our soldiers and each play our squads, taking different path.
I replayed it again last year and completed it with the Area 51 mod (i might be mixing the mod's name with another though) and had a blast, some people don't like this mod because of the few timed missions, i think the new missions (there's some defense missions too and quite a few new maps) add a lot for someone who played the game too much already.
About mind control.
As StrangeFellow said, you don't like it, just don't use it, you could just pick soldiers with a high psi def, why can't you ?
Besides, i think mind control is great, even if you can abuse it, probably because of it because if you want to farm ressources, it'll speed up the missions, well, as long as you're not on a reaction training mood.
Mostly, i think xcom wannabe fail because of the music & sound effects, and of course, it seems nobody on earth knows how to make base management interesting anymore.
Did i play Renowned explorers ?
Yes.
But not for long, and i don't intend to do it ever again.
About expeditions.
The engine isn't that great to begin with and if you didn't like conquistadors, you won't like vikings either but i prefer vikings, the encounter design was interesting and combat was great in general, aside from one stealth mission i had to restart a billion times and one fight in England where you fight a champion and his party with a magic sword as a reward, it's clearly an end-game encounter, i tackled it way too early and was nearly impossible to win, the champion dodging almost everything.
Still, the worst offense if the engine, the game would be amazing with a better one but it's good in spite of it.
First, to truly appreciate UFO, you had to play it back then, because all the mechanism you take from granted comes from the UFO era.
The fact is, nobody has been able to come even close to the UFO formula in all these years.
Sure, the game isn't perfect (deployment issues before you get the transport upgrades, great tactical battles but can be tedious when you have to many of them in a row) but it's damn close.
I had a demo version of TFTD basically at release (part of a CD that was with the French video game magazine Generation 4) where it was one tactical level where you had one squad with the most basic equipment (2 pistols, 1 gaz cannon, and everyone else had harpoon rifle) vs a full Tasoth complement with occasional mind attacks. As you can imagine, it was insanely hard, and my bro and me tried the mission again and again and again until I succeeded. I was probably around 12-13 at the time, it was my first tactical game and I was in awe. I found the complete version a few years later, and it was still awesome of course but I could not finish the first time (I suspect I was a victim of the infamous Tasoth commander bug, but no way to be sure ; maybe I just did not understand what the next steps were to progress with the research). In terms of memory, it is right there with Ultima 7 and some French stuff you probably never heard about and did not age well like Tera.
UFO Defense, I played much much later. Funnily enough, since in TFTD the dye grenades were useless I did not realize that smoke grenades worked in UFO until much after I finished the game.
So I would say I played TFTD "back then" (but not UFO). I stand by my assessment that the end game of TFTD at least is weak due to importance of Mind Control and to two stages Base Attacks. I know there is a trick where you canjust recruit and fire soldiers until you find guys with strong psy defense, which I did not do then but sound like a fairly boring process, to each his own. I fully realize that UFO/TFTD basically made the Tactical genre what it is now, and there would be no JA2 without UFO.
On Renowned Explorers, I think the game is 10/10 not due to tactical combats alone, but due to how all elements articulate perfectly. There are only a limited number of expeditions, but the number of encounters in each of them is huge, the same encounters can have plenty of different resolutions depending on how you interacted in previous encounters (including on previous expeditions, though this is a rare case), depending on the skill of your adventurers, depending on the hidden traits of your adventurers ("dancer", "prankser", "likes eating") so it has insane replayability for a game running on hand designed encounters. The game is also very well balanced, which means that you keep making interesting decisions because except in the first island of each run you CANNOT do everything you want to do, and as stated the combat are really well articulated with the game and the effect on the expedition of a combat goes beyond "success / failed" but depends on what you did during the combat. The only sad part with the combat is that loss = game over, unlike Expeditions or even XCOM.
Pathways tried to mirror Renowned Explorers with more "traditional tactical" combats (range weapons, cover, ammo management) but it just did not work, not only because the combat were not that great and repetitive, but also because they failed at the balancing, which means there was no "interesting" decision to take, which means the game lost what makes you go one more turn.
Except if you are tactical / strategic combat absolutist that only play games built around combat & tactics, I would give RE a second try. It is in my very exclusive "favorite" list on Steam.
On Renowned Explorer, I think the game is 10/10 not due to tactical combats alone, but due to how everything articulates. There are only a limited number of expeditions, but the number of encounters in each of them is huge, the same encounters can have plenty of different resolutions depending on how you interacted in previous encounters (including on previous expeditions, though this is a rare case), depending on the skill of your adventurers, depending on the hidden traits of your adventurers ("dancer", "prankser", "like eating") so it has insane replayability for a game running on hand designed encounters. The game is also very well balanced, which means that you keep making interesting decisions because except in the first island of each run you CANNOT do everything you want to do, and as stated the combat are really well articulated with the game and the effect on the expedition of a combat goes beyond "success / failed" but depends on what you did during the combat. The only sad part with the combat is that loss = game over.
So, in your mind, UFO is a 8/10 and Renowned explorers a 10.
Renowned explorers being a recent game with shiny graphics and all, how come nobody's playing that shit while 20 years later, so many people still mod and play UFO ?
You certainly have a rational explanation, right ?
It is true that all X-COM games (and nuXCOM too for that matter) have weak ending, as the game drags on after you get overpowered.
I think open XCOM had an option to remove psy for players?
But it would work much better if it required to have and maintain Line of Sight actually.
But just pretending I won a few missions after getting MC also works.
Laser Squad Nemesis had been my goto multiplayer game for a long time, but I am not sure there are any working server now, and the SP is just a sequence of missions.
Regarding Templar Battleforce, the tactical combat is more confusing than in its prequel Templar Assault RPG, but still not on par with JA2/XCOM (short ranges used and all...), so it is clearly inferior. But it offers a lot of options when it comes to loadout and progression (maybe a bit too much actually).
I was gonna put in my post that I don't remember much about TFTD other than that I found it really frustrating and never finished it, so maybe your gripes are accurate when it comes to that one valevelkal. Both our perceptions are probably coloured by which one we played the most, or which one we played first.
So, in your mind, UFO is a 8/10 and Renowned explorers a 10.
Renowned explorers being a recent game with shiny graphics and all, how come nobody's playing that shit while 20 years later, so many people still mod and play UFO ?
You certainly have a rational explanation, right ?
Well, 12 years later people sitill mod and play Fallout 3, but few mod & play for instance Ultima 7 or let's say Blue Byte's Albion or Star Control 2. UFO/XCOM have for them few games in the same genre, and absolutely fantastic early and mid game. Renowned Explorer has against it being released in an era where games are plentiful, and it has a weird positioning (RPG + Tactical Combat + Exploration) which does not make it an immediate buy to anyone.
I was gonna put in my post that I don't remember much about TFTD other than that I found it really frustrating and never finished it, so maybe your gripes are accurate when it comes to that one valevelkal. Both our perceptions are probably coloured by which one we played the most.
I didn't play it much either, first, i didn't like the ocean theme that much, then, the early "crab men" in terror missions ...
It was just a repack of UFO with a different theme and worse balance.
This has been in the standard Openxcom options list for a while. It's a good example of a mod making a positive balance change, but I guess a lot of people play without it turned on. The TFTD dye grenade issue was fixed as well.
Nice list. I added a few games to my "to test" list.
Age of Fear - I actually did NOT like it much, but it does ranging with melee weapons very well (the range advantage of the spear is real... except if back to a wall). Age of Fear II is pure garbage IMO. YMMV
What's the big difference between Age of Fear 1 and 2? I've fucked around with the first game mostly (around 10-20 hours on different abandoned not-serious playthroughs, thinking I'll do a proper playthrough some time later).
The most annoying thing I've noticed in these games is the absurdly short range of ranged attacks. I like how dudes typically have few HP though, no HP bloat unlike for example Warbanners (from what I remember, only fucked around in that too, thinking to give it a proper playthrough some time later).
Age of Fear 1, 2 and 3 are the same game, dev went out of his way to update previous games with features that the sequels bought in. The true difference lies in the campaigns they offer and which races you play in them, which game one prefers is based strictly on personal tastes.
In my case AoF 2 is actually my favorite in the series because of the succubi campaign, has the most fun story overall imo.
Age of Fear 1, 2 and 3 are the same game, dev went out of his way to update previous games with features that the sequels bought in. The true difference lies in the campaigns they offer and which races you play in them, which game one prefers is based strictly on personal tastes.
In my case AoF 2 is actually my favorite in the series because of the succubi campaign, has the most fun story overall imo.
I loathed that campaign, and that's why I called AoF2 garbage, so to each his own I guess . I felt AoF 1 was a way more controlled experience in terms of campaign progression.
I loathed that campaign, and that's why I called AoF2 garbage, so to each his own I guess . I felt AoF 1 was a way more controlled experience in terms of campaign progression.
Ah right, was thinking you said that because Aof2 was the only title you tried and didn’t like it, thus making all AoF games thrash.
What you say is likely true from a game design perspective, but story was what mattered to me in the aof campaigns and i just found the demon story fun with its character banter whilst surprising me by subverting tropes and giving a surprisingly wholesome yet non pc ending which cemented it as my favorite of the lot followed closely by the necromancer campaign for aof1.
TROUBLESHOOTER: Abandoned Children is a Korean game that shouldn´t work but it does. If you can pass the anime graphics and engrish translation is a very deep and customizable SRPG . I'm 30 hours in the game and still finding new systems, combinations and things to do. Frankly I am only scratching the surface of the game. For example you have hundreds of masteries (Perks) that range from the boring x% to hit/crit/resist to more elaborated like always dodge the first attack the situational like more block in the bushes, to the likes of resurrecting, next ability doesn't use an action point or if there is x effect instakill the target.
Huge amount of customization, options and good difficulty makes a game you want to replay. Which for all missions (story, and all others) you can replay in game whenever you want. And you kinda since the game is kinda grindy (masteries, materiales, etc.) . Besides a somewhat grindy nature and the engrish, it has a very anime story. It's a good anime story, with nice characters and the right amount of cringe and edginess, but is there. I don't know if that is a deal braker for you (graphics are, like, anime but not very so).
TROUBLESHOOTER: Abandoned Children is a Korean game that shouldn´t work but it does. If you can pass the anime graphics and engrish translation is a very deep and customizable SRPG . I'm 30 hours in the game and still finding new systems, combinations and things to do. Frankly I am only scratching the surface of the game. For example you have hundreds of masteries (Perks) that range from the boring x% to hit/crit/resist to more elaborated like always dodge the first attack the situational like more block in the bushes, to the likes of resurrecting, next ability doesn't use an action point or if there is x effect instakill the target.
Huge amount of customization, options and good difficulty makes a game you want to replay. Which for all missions (story, and all others) you can replay in game whenever you want. And you kinda since the game is kinda grindy (masteries, materiales, etc.) . Besides a somewhat grindy nature and the engrish, it has a very anime story. It's a good anime story, with nice characters and the right amount of cringe and edginess, but is there. I don't know if that is a deal braker for you (graphics are, like, anime but not very so).
. I felt AoF 1 was a way more controlled experience in terms of campaign progression.
