In Progress [LP CYOA] Tower

[Absinthe]

Well, a moment ago we were informed that names have power in the tower. And we were informed that entities from our stories can take tangible form within in tower. So it is possible that he really is the character of John Bull brought to life. That doesn't mean he's completely safe, but it does mean that it would be worth contemplating how John Bull would react when dealing with this entity who calls itself John Bull.

The reason I mention all of this is because the character of John Bull is committed enough to decent behavior, but if you pick a fight with him, he will fuck us up.

 

[Kz3r0]

Guys, it’s simple, if he has bad intentions strike hard, strike first, regardless of how effective it is, else we can always apologize afterwards.

 

[Absinthe]

Apologizing is not a strong suit of ours. Regardless, Baltika9 and Esquilax both seem committed to their vote, so any information to the contrary is recklessly dismissed. Evidently the fact that our visitor here identifies himself as "John Bull" is of no significance at all in their view.

 

[Nevill]

Less of a commitment, and more of "it quacks like a duck".

Cutting off a child screaming for help is not very jolly for the child, no matter how amusing it may be for the one doing it.

The guy is behaving in a way that is consistent with a creepy abductor. Wrinkles doesn't have to read up on fictional characters to react in a certain way.

And as for the names, well...

 

[Absinthe]

No one is saying to vote A here, thanks. No one is saying to "just trust John Bull." Look, the idea that we gotta try something may seem tempting to you, but this feels like the 2A vote stupidity all over again: an irrational bias for action overcoming the need to look at which decisions are actually feasible and productive in our circumstance. And C is unlikely to accomplish anything other than piss him off and we can't exactly take him on.

As for names, you are rushing to dismiss the possibility of him being called "John Bull" being significant, not long after we were told names matter and entities from stories can come to life in the tower.

 

[hello friend]

C>D

I wonder if this silver astra of his would allow him to travel above the 30th floor, or if he's lying, or if it has certain limitations/conditions.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

...the other problem is that the sling takes a bit to get going. Wouldn't it have been nice to have a revolver with us right about now?

It would if we knew how to use it. Pointing a gun at someone and not knowing how to disable the safety, for example, would be quite bad.

A slingshot doesn’t take that much longer to use and we’re quite practiced with one apparently. It’s probably already ready, since we were defending Sophie. treave, status of our slingshot? How long do we think it will take to shoot him?

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

No one is saying to vote A here, thanks. No one is saying to "just trust John Bull." Look, the idea that we gotta try something may seem tempting to you, but this feels like the 2A vote stupidity all over again: an irrational bias for action overcoming the need to look at which decisions are actually feasible and productive in our circumstance. And C is unlikely to accomplish anything other than piss him off and we can't exactly take him on.

As for names, you are rushing to dismiss the possibility of him being called "John Bull" being significant, not long after we were told names matter and entities from stories can come to life in the tower.

John Bull is the name of a fictitious character in British politics that matches his description. It could be a fake identity, it could be real. Regardless, he clearly means to abduct us. The mist that silenced us and alters our perception of reality, his offer of transportation, the fact he knows Tlalli’s name, but isn’t helping her.

What do you think a child should do in such a situation? Simply stand there and say “no” or throw something at him and run like hell?

 

[Baltika9]

Regardless, Baltika9 and Esquilax both seem committed to their vote, so any information to the contrary is recklessly dismissed. Evidently the fact that our visitor here identifies himself as "John Bull" is of no significance at all in their view.

I've considered this point earlier, but I ultimately decided that it's safer for us to react violently given the situation, even if it will simply give Sophie a window to run away:

I was half-kidding. Decking him with a rock is our way to hopefully distract him so that he drops the mist and get Tlalli to then suplex him and put him in a triangle choke. Like Lambchop said, simply refusing is probably futile. The only way I see it working is if he has some weird Dracula-esque code of honor that prevents him from taking the unwilling, which is a pretty thin hope. Else, he'll at least take one of us hostage, probably Sophie, since he went to the trouble of approaching us in the first place.

I think that the 'Home Alone' response is our best option.

As for names, you are rushing to dismiss the possibility of him being called "John Bull" being significant, not long after we were told names matter and entities from stories can come to life in the tower.

I hear you, but she didn't state plainly in what way names are relevant in the setting. It might feasibly be the case that this thing will indeed follow the personage of John Bull. If it does not, however, then there's nothing stopping the walking Stranger Danger from taking us by force, since we are cut off from our surroundings.

What I'm saying is that I'm more comfortable with relying on our sling-arm than on this caricature's willingness to stay in-character.

...the other problem is that the sling takes a bit to get going. Wouldn't it have been nice to have a revolver with us right about now?

It would if we knew how to use it. Pointing a gun at someone and not knowing how to disable the safety, for example, would be quite bad.

A slingshot doesn’t take that much longer to use and we’re quite practiced with one apparently. It’s probably already ready, since we were defending Sophie. treave, status of our slingshot? How long do we think it will take to shoot him?

I think you guys are confusing a slingshot with a sling.

This is a sling, a weapon that takes a bit to wind up:

Spoiler

This is a slingshot, a weapon that requires us to simply pull, aim and release:

Spoiler

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

If John Bull really is some kind of personification of the fictional character, then C just might be the dumbest move we could possibly do, since it's the only one that would antagonize him for real.

He’s already aiming to abduct us. What do you think antagonizing him is going to do? Make him abduct us more??

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I think you guys are confusing a slingshot with a sling.

True. But you’re still taking about a second, not minutes.

again, treave, can you confirm how much time we think it will take?

 

[baud]

C>D

I wonder if this silver astra of his would allow him to travel above the 30th floor, or if he's lying, or if it has certain limitations/conditions.

He might be limited to places he's already visited.

 

[Kipeci]

So we’re opting to twist the lion’s tail?

It’s an admirable show of the spirit of ‘76, I can get behind that! I think it’ll be a rough job, but perhaps he’ll become as Goliath before our stone.

 

[Absinthe]

John Bull is the name of a fictitious character in British politics that matches his description. It could be a fake identity, it could be real. Regardless, he clearly means to abduct us. The mist that silenced us and alters our perception of reality, his offer of transportation, the fact he knows Tlalli’s name, but isn’t helping her.

I honestly expect A to bring us all home. We just don't know at what price. The fact that he is using the mist does suggest that Tlalli would interfere with his offer, which is a good reason for us to not take it.

What do you think a child should do in such a situation? Simply stand there and say “no” or throw something at him and run like hell?

I think there's a real possibility that he will accept "no" in keeping with his gentlemanly persona but will lash out if we attack him. You're also treating this like a RL abduction attempt when fairy tale logic could easily apply here. And in those sorts of stories, it's generally far more dangerous to attack a monster than to politely decline their offers.

The thing worth noting about him is that while something feels wrong about him and his offer is obviously dodgy, he isn't hostile to us. And we don't want him to become hostile to us. That would be fucking dangerous.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

I think there's a real possibility that he will accept "no" in keeping with his gentlemanly persona but will lash out if we attack him. You're also treating this like a RL abduction attempt when fairy tale logic could easily apply here. And in those sorts of stories, it's generally far more dangerous to attack a monster than to politely decline their offers.

The thing worth noting about him is that while something feels wrong about him and his offer is obviously dodgy, he isn't hostile to us. And we don't want him to become hostile to us. That would be fucking dangerous.

When an abdctor, be it in a fairy tale or in real life, wants to abduct you and has already taken measures that silence your screams, the only reason they would not use force and be "openly hostile", as you're so afraid of, is to see if deception will work at first.

Whether it's the wolf lying to Little Red Riding Hood or the witch in Hansel and Gretel, the first option is often to use deception because it's easier and makes your prey less likely to run or fight back. That's the usually moral of the story.

Even by your own standards, trusting this man is incredibly foolish. As is, in my opinion, simply refusing as force will be his next option.

In fact, we already feel the mist affecting us. So even delaying may be dangerous. We may find ourselves drugged and agreeing whether we like it or not in D, for example.

An immediate strike followed by running is our best chance of escape.

 

[Absinthe]

Actually, you missed a lot of stories about fairies where it's more about making just the right deal or declining properly unless you want disaster on your hands. You also never want to rush to monsters saying "Now you've made me angry!" Even in Hansel and Gretel if they attacked the witch on sight they would've been dead. They had to trick her. In Little Red Riding Hood the moral was for children not to speak with strangers in the woods, but that ship has sailed for us. It's clear enough that whatever John Bull wants, he is pushing for our consent to it. So giving him our refusal should be enough. He might loop back for a second attempt later but by that time we'd have Tlalli's advice.

Also, we really don't have the means to take on John Bull. This guy felt comfortable enough to pay Tlalli a visit in the middle of a hunt, so I'm going to make a wild hunch and guess that we are horribly outclassed here.

I'd also like to repeat that John Bull isn't hostile to us yet, and we shouldn't make him hostile either. Seriously, it's not within our means to handle whatever he'd do. Picking C here is going all Andrew on the problem.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Actually, you missed a lot of stories about fairies where it's more about making just the right deal or declining properly unless you want disaster on your hands. You also never want to rush to monsters saying "Now you've made me angry!" Even in Hansel and Gretel if they attacked the witch on sight they would've been dead. They had to trick her. In Little Red Riding Hood the moral was for children not to speak with strangers in the woods, but that ship has sailed for us. It's clear enough that whatever John Bull wants, he is pushing for our consent to it. So giving him our refusal should be enough. He might loop back for a second attempt later but by that time we'd have Tlalli's advice.

Also, we really don't have the means to take on John Bull. This guy felt comfortable enough to pay Tlalli a visit in the middle of a hunt, so I'm going to make a wild hunch and guess that we are horribly outclassed here.

I'd also like to repeat that John Bull isn't hostile to us yet, and we shouldn't make him hostile either. Seriously, it's not within our means to handle whatever he'd do. Picking C here is going all Andrew on the problem.

You make some good points, but just because there is magic involved doesn't mean we are dealing with a fairy or that we are in a fairy tale.

Also, we really don't have the means to take on John Bull. This guy felt comfortable enough to pay Tlalli a visit in the middle of a hunt, so I'm going to make a wild hunch and guess that we are horribly outclassed here.

You forget that he's using the mist so that she won't interfere. He isn't dropping in on her at all, only us.

In fact, I think the entire reason he plans to kidnap us is to use us a leverage in dealing with her because he fears a direct confrontation with her.

Besides that, we aren't planning on fighting him. It's a sling, while it might kill him, it's more likely it hurt him or knock him out.

 

[Absinthe]

I think if this dude is used to dealing with monsters and people like Tlalli the odds of our sling doing something productive are pretty low. Whereas the odds of it putting us in a bad situation (as opposed to rescuing us from one) are pretty high. You're also over-committed to the notion that he is necessarily attempting to abduct us. My perspective is that what is going on isn't an abduction effort. He's trying to get us to foolishly agree to a deal we'll regret. If we decline the deal, then that's that for this attempt. He might try to make another attempt later but for now he'd let us go.

 

[CappenVarra]

this guy gives us similar vibes as Rasputin - and do you think shooting him with a sling pebble would have helped?

for better or worse, we're marked and arcanists of the Tower show an interest in us - and they all seem refreshingly Neutral and centered on their own goals, unconcerned with mortal prattle - perhaps they all seek apprentices, but are forbidden (by what dreadful Authority?) from taking one without consent?

if we need to fight this dude and die in the swamp (as we did back in 'nam), that's fine - but how about we stick to our steady character and not lash out at the first conjured provocation? that is the low CHA option if you want to force that angle though

 

[Azira]

People who are voting for using the sling against John Bull better be the same people who wanted to attack Raspy. Consistency!

If Raspy was too big of a mouthful to chew, then John Bull is too. Better to either decline, or try to engage him in conversation.

 

[Baltika9]

Gentlemen, the idea with C isn't that we defeat John Bull, but that we distract him enough that he either drops the mist, or that Tlalli realizes that something is amiss and finds us. I get the sense that she's the only one who's a match for him here, and that this situation with the surprise shifter is, in fact, an trap designed by Mr. Bull to kill our gram-gram.

People who are voting for using the sling against John Bull better be the same people who wanted to attack Raspy.

Consistency!

If Raspy was too big of a mouthful to chew, then John Bull is too. Better to either decline, or try to engage him in conversation.

Bro, I was all down for becoming Father Grigory's apprentice, but that was before we met Grandma Tlalli. She's perfect for us, it's not even a contest. Not to mention that she's rad as hell and a total badass. It sounds like she's past fifty, and yet she's still throwing monsters in headlocks and doesn't afraid of anything. I'm confident that she is a direct spiritual descendant of the Great Fist God, Our Lord Zhang Jue.

Grandma Tlalli all the way, till the day I die.




Also, Mr. Bull doesn't have the trustworthy facial hair that Father Grigory had. Handlebars are dubious at best, refer to this handy infographic:

Spoiler

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

do you think shooting him with a sling pebble would have helped?

A sling is a lethal weapon, dude.

Besides, again, we aren't planning to fight, we're planning to attack and run, if possible.

Also, there's a difference between acknowledging a serious threat and assuming that we have no chance of escape. You are doing the latter. If attacking won't help, then logically refusing won't either.

for better or worse, we're marked and arcanists of the Tower show an interest in us - and they all seem refreshingly Neutral and centered on their own goals, unconcerned with mortal prattle - perhaps they all seek apprentices, but are forbidden (by what dreadful Authority?) from taking one without consent?

This is a lot of assumption on your part.

The mark we bear is some sort of wound from our battle with the beast. Maybe it gives us special powers or maybe it just makes us "smell" like they do and attracts nasties like this guy. Who knows? (Not us, for the moment.)

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

People who are voting for using the sling against John Bull better be the same people who wanted to attack Raspy. Consistency!

The situation is completely different.

Using the mist on us is a hostile act. We didn't know that Rasputin or the knights were going to be so hostile when we encountered them.

He also clearly sees us and is directly interested in abducting us, not in seeing the gate on the 30th floor the way Rasputin was.

We also don't have the option of hiding and any delay could cause the mist to affect us further. Again, attempting to delay could cause us to be drugged or otherwise have our senses altered so that we agree whether we like it or not.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Also, I think you are all forgetting an important meta hint:

treave said that I would have had "I told you so ammo" had we chosen another option.

It's pretty clear that this guy would have tried to abduct Sophie if we weren't here. And with Sophie's naive attitude and desperation to get home, she might have agreed.

For anyone doubting that he wants to abduct us, this should be an obvious proof that he most certainly does.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Indeed, I had thought better of the Grand Old Lady than to bring such delectably young, upstanding youths into the jaws of danger, tsk tsk. What would I be if I did not offer my assistance to you then? A monster, hmm?

I MEAN FOR FUCK'S SAKE

The guy could be the real shapeshifter Tlalli has been hunting all along!