Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight

[Fronzel Neekburm]

Ahhhh, Jedi Knight!

The game that has taught me the joy of virtual murder! I fondly remember the demo level, Fuel Station Launch, which I played over and over.

I only recently played Jedi Knight in its entirety for the first time and it was such a nice throwback to a time when you could unironically enjoy Star Wars because it hadn't been thoroughly pozzed yet by the horrid prequels and the endless stream of soulless JJ Abrams/Disney cash-grabs. Once you get past the graphics, it has aged remarkably well.

Most of the levels made me go "whoa" and even though the graphics are more dated than most other shooters of the era

These two aspects go hand in hand. You may have noticed that the graphics in JK have this weird effect, where areas that are further away are rendered with significantly less detail and then "pop" into more detailed versions as you get closer. The levels in Jedi Knight are HUGE and one of the groundbreaking nextgen feature that enabled yesteryear's hardware to run these levels is also the reason it looks worse than many other games from the era.

 

[Nito]

one of the groundbreaking nextgen feature that enabled yesteryear's hardware to run these levels is also the reason it looks worse than many other games from the era.

If you're talking about LOD models, this only if you're running it in hardware accelerated mode. It's far less noticeable (and the game actually looks a lot better) running in software mode; which is how a lot of people ran it then. It looks a lot more dated now when people return to it and get it running in hardware mode (because that's "better"!).

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

I'm sure the audience for any kind of Star Wars sports game wouldn't be enough to justify the massive amount of dosh EA would put in it.

Hah, don't say that, I would love to play a Star Wars themed football or handegg game, something like Blood Bowl but more casual. Although that might just be me. You'd think that would be an easy sell to the top though, "Tonnes of people buy our football games, tonnes of people buy our Star Wars games on brand recognition alone, what if we combined those two audiences and got the Star Wars geeks hooked on sports games and the sports nerds hooked on Star Wars?", it sounds just like the kind of stupid thing they'd go along with.

Yeah, they did something like that. Harry Potter Quiddich or whatever the sport was called. Didn't seem like a flop, but it didn't get a sequel. I'm sure someone pulled out the sales data for that and said that Harry Potter is bigger, ergo this won't sell.

 

[DeepOcean]

Disney is the main reason I fully commited with the libertarian point of view that IP laws shouldnt exist at all, what good you are doing to society to release those trash Star Wars movies Disney did? when I get the news Disney bought a new IP my reaction is like when Obiwan had when a billion souls died, just search project Astartes on youtube, I kid you not, a random guy on youtube know more about putting together a movie than those hacks at Hollywood that are only able to shit on everything because of IP laws, remove that shit from them, and they shrivel like old mummies.

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

Disney is the main reason I fully commited with the libertarian point of view that IP laws shouldnt exist at all

The commie-libertarian horseshoe is real! Imagine thinking it would be okay for someone to steal your creations just because Disney can't properly manage their intellectual properties. Don't you see who that would harm most? It would mean megacorps like Disney could just grab anything fresh that popped up without giving the creator a dime. Like I bet they would make a killing on ripping off Bone (the comic) for example.

I'm sure the audience for any kind of Star Wars sports game wouldn't be enough to justify the massive amount of dosh EA would put in it.

Hah, don't say that, I would love to play a Star Wars themed football or handegg game, something like Blood Bowl but more casual. Although that might just be me. You'd think that would be an easy sell to the top though, "Tonnes of people buy our football games, tonnes of people buy our Star Wars games on brand recognition alone, what if we combined those two audiences and got the Star Wars geeks hooked on sports games and the sports nerds hooked on Star Wars?", it sounds just like the kind of stupid thing they'd go along with.

Yeah, they did something like that. Harry Potter Quiddich or whatever the sport was called. Didn't seem like a flop, but it didn't get a sequel. I'm sure someone pulled out the sales data for that and said that Harry Potter is bigger, ergo this won't sell.

Isn't Star Wars much bigger than Harry Potter tho? They're also very different audiences. I'm thinking that they're just not down with it since it hasn't truly been tried before and unknown risks are scary. They know roughly how well a Battlefront game or a Soulsborne will do on the market. Star Wars sports games? That's a mystery, and the board doesn't like mysteries.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Jedi Knight was amazing. The presentation was kinda crappy which i think is why the game didn't make much of an impact, not the least also that inferior visuals + licence = bad game as far as most people were concerned. I myself only discovered how great it was by accident. Back in the day the only way for me to try new game was to play demos offered on CD in a gaming magazine popular in Italy (TGM). I had no internet then and no money to buy new games all the time so i played a ton of demos and the Jedi Knight demo was the same. It looked crappy at first but i stuck with it because i had nothing else to play and discovered how great it was just by the first level alone.

The Raven sequels were decent but they had nothing over Jedi Knight except maybe for the multiplayer which was fun as long as it lasted.

 

[U-8D8]

Likewise for me. One of my older brothers had played Dark Forces and left it when he moved out, making it baby's first fps. When my dad saw a Rogue Squadron/Jedi Knight demo disk in a thrift store he brought it home and I basically devoured the thing. My username on here is actually a (sorta) reference to it.

It's hardly a controversial opinion, but I'd say Dark Forces had the best guns, Jedi Knight the best levels, and Outcast the best saber combat. However when it comes to ranking the series -aside from Mysteries and Academy falling on the low end- they're all fantastic uses of the license and good games besides that. When people ask why I was still invested in a franchise that had two good films, a mediocre one, and nearly all shit from then on, those games are my first answer.

There's still a small community based around Academy with two or three servers reasonably populated day round. I check in time to time but my skills have since rusted away I'm afraid.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

Isn't Star Wars much bigger than Harry Potter tho? They're also very different audiences. I'm thinking that they're just not down with it since it hasn't truly been tried before and unknown risks are scary. They know roughly how well a Battlefront game or a Soulsborne will do on the market. Star Wars sports games? That's a mystery, and the board doesn't like mysteries.

I guess? Slightly? Using the amount the films have made (wise choice, I know) Harry Potter has 7b total and 1.3b for an individual film, while Star Wars has 10b (without taking into account inflation) and 2b for an individual film. I merely assume that whatever practical difference there is between the franchises in terms of dosh made, someone in EA is probably trodding out that old thing, assuming anyone there brought it up at all. But I could be very wrong, I can't pretend to understand how the suits there think beyond "make money".

 

[deuxhero]

Lucas openly bragged about making more from the toys than the films.

 

[Matador]

I had this on a CD with pirated games that included Quake 2. Played much more than it, in fact maybe I played it more than Half Life. Very cool game that introduced new things and surprises all along the way. I remember the wonder getting the light saber, and later the Jedi Powers and fighting a Sith boss fight. Cool, big and varied levels with verticality.

Underrated gem. Haven't played it since that era, but my memories are great about it.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Imagine my surprise when I replayed Jedi Knight recently for the first time in some 15 years and discovered that generic enemies like grans and stormtroopers could jump over small gaps and obstacles.

 

[Mikeal]

Joke on all of you. Force Throw is best Dark Force power in game.

 

[AW8]

Imagine my surprise when I replayed Jedi Knight recently for the first time in some 15 years and discovered that generic enemies like grans and stormtroopers could jump over small gaps and obstacles.

This stood out for me as well. If you jump on top of a box to cheese a Gran brawler with your pistol, he'll actually jump on top of it as well to continue your beating. Sadly, this ancient technology of making enemies jump seems to have been pretty much lost to time.

 

[ValeVelKal]

Dark Force I and Dark Force II had incredible level design. I would say that Dark Force predated all other FPS in having level design that represented something, rather than just "room-monster".

 

[Citizen]

FUCK THE NAR-SHADDA LEVEL IN JEDI OUTCAST
NO SERIOUSLY THE BLUE FACED SHRIMPS CAMPING ME WITH SNIPER RIFLES IN THE DARK CAN GO FUCK THEMSELVES

IF I EVER SEE ONE OF THOSE LIMP-DICKED CAMPER FAGS AGAIN I SWEAR TO GOD I~

 

[Darth Roxor]

the one whose pic you posted is a blaster rodian tho

 

[Citizen]

the one whose pic you posted is a blaster rodian tho

Whole species deserves death for what their sniper brethen did to me there

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

The only saving grace of Outcast was the lightsaber stuff and the force, the other weapons were pretty bad and the level design was not nearly as good as in previous games. The worst thing being how counter-intuitive some of the paths you were supposed to take were, I remember being totally lost more than a couple of times. If it wasn't super fun in multiplayer and if it didn't have those duels I'd consider it trash.

 

[Citizen]

the other weapons were pretty bad

There's a good feel to some weapons, esp. the full-auto lazer gun you get in the beginning, but the game has terrible problem with aiming. Your bullets/lazors/whatever dont travel perpendicular to the screen, they are flying at the angle. That's why the crosshair snaps to objects instead of staying in place, it indicates the direction where the projectile will actually go at this distance. And it's FUCKING TERRIBLE. Especially when you're doing the classic point-blank spray'n'pray - your lazzors go so much to the left it's almost impossible to hit anyone at that range. It's not that bad in middle-high range shootouts tho

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

the other weapons were pretty bad

There's a good feel to some weapons, esp. the full-auto lazer gun you get in the beginning, but the game has terrible problem with aiming. Your bullets/lazors/whatever dont travel perpendicular to the screen, they are flying at the angle. That's why the crosshair snaps to objects instead of staying in place, it indicates the direction where the projectile will actually go at this distance. And it's FUCKING TERRIBLE. Especially when you're doing the classic point-blank spray'n'pray - your lazzors go so much to the left it's almost impossible to hit anyone at that range. It's not that bad in middle-high range shootouts tho

I know! They should have kept the static aim thingy. But even if they had done so I still think most of the weapons were super lame, especially when compared to those of the previous game.

• Stun Baton - Pure crap, used exactly once just to try it.
  
• Lightsaber - Default 99% of the time, the cheat option in the game of rock-paper-scissors enemies play.
  
• Bryar Blaster - Huge step down from the one from Dark Forces II.
• E-11 Blaster - It's alright, a workhorse before you get the saber.
  
• Tenloss Disruptor - Okay, it's a sniper rifle with a charge up time, not a fan. Super weak if you don't charge it up.
  
• Bowcaster - This one is still alright, but I still preferred the one in Dark Forces II, couldn't quite tell you why
• Heavy Repeater - It kind of goes everywhere and I don't like the secondary fire mode.
• Electro-Magnetic Pulse Gun - Total crap.
• FC-1 - Tries to be the flack cannon from Unreal, fails at it.
• Portable Missile System - These rockets are weak and wimpy.
• And then you have the throwables which I barely used, throws felt off and since you're so often facing off against sith or weak enemies so you'll never have to set up traps or anything.

Compare those to the excellent arsenal you got in Dark Forces II:

• Fists - Kyle doesn't need a stun baton, he can punch hard enough. Not very useful, but pretty cool.
• Bryar Pistol - It's great, stays useful to snipe enemies with even when you got other weapons, super precise.
• Stormtrooper Rifle - Again, it's a workhorse, fires quickly.
• Bowcaster - Precise and carries a lot of omph, love it!
• Imperial Repeater - Again, precise, and super high firing rate, alt fire fires three shots at once. You only have to worry about your ammo.
• Rail Detonator - Ka-pow! Dangerous and highly explosive shots which you can stick to enemies and walls. Night and day compared to the PMS (lol) from Outcast.
• Concussion Rifle - Again, KA-POW! This is my jam! Extremely dangerous, quick and lethal. I want to marry this gun. You can snipe an entire squad of enemies from a distance! Lightsabers are for nerds.
• Lightsaber - It's alright, mostly used against stormtroopers and lesser enemies, as a bonus it can deflect shots and deals with bosses. More of a tool than an ultimate weapon, flashlight in emergencies.
  
• Throwables - thermal detonators are great, more satisfying booms, sequencer charges are easier to get use of.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

There’s nothing wrong with the graphics or the presentation. The game is near perfect. I’d like to know a better looking game at the time it was released. But who the fuck cares about graphics? The more inclined posts in this thread talk about how great the gameplay was, and that was the best thing about JK.

A shame that it is such a pain to get working on modern systems though, even with the GOG version.

 

[Darth Roxor]

The only saving grace of Outcast was the lightsaber stuff and the force, the other weapons were pretty bad and the level design was not nearly as good as in previous games. The worst thing being how counter-intuitive some of the paths you were supposed to take were, I remember being totally lost more than a couple of times. If it wasn't super fun in multiplayer and if it didn't have those duels I'd consider it trash.

I know! They should have kept the static aim thingy. But even if they had done so I still think most of the weapons were super lame, especially when compared to those of the previous game.

• Stun Baton - Pure crap, used exactly once just to try it.
  
• Lightsaber - Default 99% of the time, the cheat option in the game of rock-paper-scissors enemies play.
  
• Bryar Blaster - Huge step down from the one from Dark Forces II.
• E-11 Blaster - It's alright, a workhorse before you get the saber.
  
• Tenloss Disruptor - Okay, it's a sniper rifle with a charge up time, not a fan. Super weak if you don't charge it up.
  
• Bowcaster - This one is still alright, but I still preferred the one in Dark Forces II, couldn't quite tell you why
• Heavy Repeater - It kind of goes everywhere and I don't like the secondary fire mode.
• Electro-Magnetic Pulse Gun - Total crap.
• FC-1 - Tries to be the flack cannon from Unreal, fails at it.
• Portable Missile System - These rockets are weak and wimpy.
• And then you have the throwables which I barely used, throws felt off and since you're so often facing off against sith or weak enemies so you'll never have to set up traps or anything.

Compare those to the excellent arsenal you got in Dark Forces II:

• Fists - Kyle doesn't need a stun baton, he can punch hard enough. Not very useful, but pretty cool.
• Bryar Pistol - It's great, stays useful to snipe enemies with even when you got other weapons, super precise.
• Stormtrooper Rifle - Again, it's a workhorse, fires quickly.
• Bowcaster - Precise and carries a lot of omph, love it!
• Imperial Repeater - Again, precise, and super high firing rate, alt fire fires three shots at once. You only have to worry about your ammo.
• Rail Detonator - Ka-pow! Dangerous and highly explosive shots which you can stick to enemies and walls. Night and day compared to the PMS (lol) from Outcast.
• Concussion Rifle - Again, KA-POW! This is my jam! Extremely dangerous, quick and lethal. I want to marry this gun. You can snipe an entire squad of enemies from a distance! Lightsabers are for nerds.
• Lightsaber - It's alright, mostly used against stormtroopers and lesser enemies, as a bonus it can deflect shots and deals with bosses. More of a tool than an ultimate weapon, flashlight in emergencies.
  
• Throwables - thermal detonators are great, more satisfying booms, sequencer charges are easier to get use of.

Look at all this tryhard nonsense.

Zumg some of the paths are counter-intuitive, do I need to remind you of having to jump into some weirdo damaging vent to get lifted up towards a tiny fucking window that you have to fit into in Jedi Knight?

Also massive lol on those guns. EMP gun "total crap" yeah I'm sure you were cutting the cortosis bots with the lightsabre, retard. "Bryar blaster huge step down because I say so", nevermind that it's one of the best guns in the game that is, ahem, "great, stays useful to snipe enemies with even when you got other weapons, super precise."

Bowcaster is worser because i feel like it!!!

Flechette fails! Heavy repeater goes everywhere! Zomg!

Spoiler, the game can be played from start to finish without ever killing anyone with the lightsabre, and it's super-fun at that, and just about all the guns always remain useful and fit for different purposes, with flechette being one of the best killers around.

Git gud, scrublord.

 

[U-8D8]

There's a good feel to some weapons, esp. the full-auto lazer gun you get in the beginning, but the game has terrible problem with aiming. Your bullets/lazors/whatever dont travel perpendicular to the screen, they are flying at the angle. That's why the crosshair snaps to objects instead of staying in place, it indicates the direction where the projectile will actually go at this distance. And it's FUCKING TERRIBLE. Especially when you're doing the classic point-blank spray'n'pray - your lazzors go so much to the left it's almost impossible to hit anyone at that range. It's not that bad in middle-high range shootouts tho

Last time I played Outcast, I had a config file use a console command automatically on start up that made the crosshair immobile and in the center of the screen. Worked alright, except for feeling like the projectiles went a little bit to the left rather than where the crosshair was pointing. Off the top of my head I can't remember exactly what it was, but searching just now brought up a steam thread about it.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/6020/discussions/0/496880503058509485/

Hope it helps.

 

[Citizen]

There's a good feel to some weapons, esp. the full-auto lazer gun you get in the beginning, but the game has terrible problem with aiming. Your bullets/lazors/whatever dont travel perpendicular to the screen, they are flying at the angle. That's why the crosshair snaps to objects instead of staying in place, it indicates the direction where the projectile will actually go at this distance. And it's FUCKING TERRIBLE. Especially when you're doing the classic point-blank spray'n'pray - your lazzors go so much to the left it's almost impossible to hit anyone at that range. It's not that bad in middle-high range shootouts tho

Last time I played Outcast, I had a config file use a console command automatically on start up that made the crosshair immobile and in the center of the screen. Worked alright, except for feeling like the projectiles went a little bit to the left rather than where the crosshair was pointing. Off the top of my head I can't remember exactly what it was, but searching just now brought up a steam thread about it.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/6020/discussions/0/496880503058509485/

Hope it helps.

Thanks. I tried that, but it felt worse. Snappy crosshair atleast works alright on longer ranges, but when it's static there's a constant error in your shooting

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

Look at all this tryhard nonsense.

I'm not trying anything! Just giving my (very important) opinion on how the guns felt. I played both games back to back a while ago and it was something I noticed. You're the one that's a tryhard, like come on, that post is like straight from 4chan.

Zumg some of the paths are counter-intuitive, do I need to remind you of having to jump into some weirdo damaging vent to get lifted up towards a tiny fucking window that you have to fit into in Jedi Knight?

Never wondered where I had to go next in Dark Forces II, maybe YOU should git gud!

Also massive lol on those guns. EMP gun "total crap" yeah I'm sure you were cutting the cortosis bots with the lightsabre, retard. "Bryar blaster huge step down because I say so", nevermind that it's one of the best guns in the game that is, ahem, "great, stays useful to snipe enemies with even when you got other weapons, super precise."

EMP works as a tool but it's not a good weapon. Notice how there are no gimmicky weapons in the previous game, they are all always useful, even if some are better against certain enemies and in certain situations. The pistol was just worse, doesn't mean it isn't useful.

Bowcaster is worser because i feel like it!!!

Yes, it's not the same. Maybe it's the speed of that thing or the other, the sounds, the damage, I don't know. It felt worse, sue me.

Flechette fails! Heavy repeater goes everywhere! Zomg!

Not an argument, because you know I'm right.

Spoiler, the game can be played from start to finish without ever killing anyone with the lightsabre, and it's super-fun at that, and just about all the guns always remain useful and fit for different purposes, with flechette being one of the best killers around.

Sorry, but your taste is bad. I'm not arguing they're the worst weapons ever, but that 1.) The lightsaber is almost always the better option and 2.) in comparison to the previous game they aren't nearly as great.

Git gud, scrublord.

Take a shower, nerd.