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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

Xamenos

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Pathfinder: Wrath
(and I can't understand why, since it's a problem with a simple and straightforward solution).
I assume it was a casualty of the rushed, buggy release. I am less certain on why they didn't add it with a patch, but perhaps they didn't want to test every single spell for bugs. There is certainly no rational reason for it not to be implemented if possible. It will be inexcusable if Wrath doesn't have dismissable spells either.
 

Neroon

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I hope the rest of you don't mind, if I keep on posting my noob questions here, but something new came up:

I've recruited Octavia yesterday and have trouble with her getting sneak attacks. I've read several google results about sneak attacks and they all say something along the lines of:
"If the target is engaged in melee combat by two opponents, it's considered flanked and vulnerable to Sneak Attacks regardless of actual flanking positioning (don't need be positioned behind or to the flank)." Yet if she shots an arrow or an acid splash against an enemy engaged by two others sometimes sneak attack triggers and sometimes it doesn't with no difference I can discern.
I used to think that perhaps some of those have feats preventing flanking, then I finally read this:
"Ranged attacks can count as Sneak Attacks only if the target is within 30 feet and is either flanked by 2 or more allies of the sneak attacker or is flat-footed." Could that be the issue? If yes, is there a way to determine how far an enemy is away from you? I have the UI Extensions mod installed, but can't find anything there nor in the main game options to display a chars range to an enemy.

Also regarding enemy abilities: I sometimes see my chars passing lore checks after an enemy is killed and seemingly an enemy stat being noted, yet the in-game bestiary keeps on only having a short description about them with no stats or anything. Am I looking in the wrong place?
 

NJClaw

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I hope the rest of you don't mind, if I keep on posting my noob questions here, but something new came up:
Nah, we like answering questions.

Yet if she shots an arrow or an acid splash against an enemy engaged by two others sometimes sneak attack triggers and sometimes it doesn't with no difference I can discern.
A bunch of enemies are immune to sneak attack (stuff like elementals and ghosts), but they are in very small number. There are also some class features that prevent sneak attacks (Improved Uncanny Dodge), but they are extremely rare. Usually, if you aren't getting your Sneak Attack damage, it's because you don't meet the requirements: https://pathfinderkingmaker.fandom.com/wiki/Sneak_Attack

"Ranged attacks can count as Sneak Attacks only if the target is within 30 feet and is either flanked by 2 or more allies of the sneak attacker or is flat-footed." Could that be the issue? If yes, is there a way to determine how far an enemy is away from you? I have the UI Extensions mod installed, but can't find anything there nor in the main game options to display a chars range to an enemy.
I don't know if there's a better way to calculate distance between characters, but one thing you can do is begin casting a spell with an area radius you know (for example, Fireball should have a 20 feet radius, Grease a 10 feet radius and Haste a 30 feet radius) and use the highlighted area to assess the distance. You can also use other skills and abilities, like Dazzling Display and Channel Energy (both have a 30 feet radius).

Also regarding enemy abilities: I sometimes see my chars passing lore checks after an enemy is killed and seemingly an enemy stat being noted, yet the in-game bestiary keeps on only having a short description about them with no stats or anything. Am I looking in the wrong place?
When you encounter an enemy, you can use the Inspect function (by default, its shortcut should be Y, if I'm not wrong) and hover over an enemy to see its stats.
 

Daidre

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
3 years later I am still mystified.
xy2Doql.png
This letter is from Lander Lebeda. If you chose Lander as your Envoy, Maegar mentions in main campaign that his team was hired to catch the little shit after one of his great escapes from home and kid still holds the grudge.
 
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Xamenos

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I hope the rest of you don't mind, if I keep on posting my noob questions here
They are certainly far more interesting than discussing bad builds or companions vs mercenaries for the umpteenth time.

"If the target is engaged in melee combat by two opponents, it's considered flanked and vulnerable to Sneak Attacks regardless of actual flanking positioning (don't need be positioned behind or to the flank)." Yet if she shots an arrow or an acid splash against an enemy engaged by two others sometimes sneak attack triggers and sometimes it doesn't with no difference I can discern.
Just in case, "Engaged" means "actually attacking the same guy". It's not enough to be standing next to him, the initial initiative delay has to have passed for both of your guys, and they have to not be, for instance, paralyzed or prone.

"Ranged attacks can count as Sneak Attacks only if the target is within 30 feet and is either flanked by 2 or more allies of the sneak attacker or is flat-footed." Could that be the issue? If yes, is there a way to determine how far an enemy is away from you? I have the UI Extensions mod installed, but can't find anything there nor in the main game options to display a chars range to an enemy.
In tabletop Pathfinder, spell ranges increase with caster level. Owlcat did not implement this however. I don't think it's possible to even cast Acid Splash from beyond 30 feet without metamagic.
 

Daidre

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What? Lander? How did you come to that conclusion, Smilodon?
Because Maegar actually tells that Lander was sending him nasty letters after he brought him home after failed escape attempt.

EDIT: I've tried tried to load the save where Lander is envoy and this dialogue node is present but I was running some very specific versions of CotW and EA so it fails with error on every combination I've tried(
 
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Haplo

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But she is extremely strong even if you completely ignore her Rogue side and just level her up as a Wizard. Even if you want to build her as an Arcane Trickster, you don't need to take any more Rogue levels than she already has.

I guess I was thinking along the lines of "she'll always be weaker as a straight wizard than a PC that never took a rogue level" but I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean you can't do it, so fair enough.

Eh, that again. Loss of a single caster level is more then made up by the insane utility AND damage output she brings to the table as a Trickster. IMO a Trickster is a straight upgrade to the wizard kit.
 

DalekFlay

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Eh, that again. Loss of a single caster level is more then made up by the insane utility AND damage output she brings to the table as a Trickster. IMO a Trickster is a straight upgrade to the wizard kit.

What? We were talking about if you don't make her a trickster.
 

DalekFlay

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Why in the nine hells wouldn't you?

Since you don't seem capable of reading the exchange due to some kind of disability, I'll summarize. People were discussing not multi-classing anyone during the entire game and I said you pretty much have to muilti-class Octavia or ignore her. Then someone said she's still good as a straight Wizard, even with losing a level to rogue. Then I said I just thought she'd always be behind a wizard PC, but I guess you could still do it, so fair enough. Then you charged in a couple pages later saying BUT ARKANE TRICKSTER like a dipshit.
 
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Yeah. I wouldn't recommend using cantrips. Unless you're packing some sneak attack die, your cantrips are going to do fuck all for damage.
Low-level casters will do fuck all for damage at-will regardless though.
>Low-level casters will do fuck all for damage
No. I don't agree. Get STR to 16, supplement with power attack. Specialize into a reach based weapon, and you'll do decent damage.

You'd have to hit them first. Good luck with that. True Strike is not a solution.
 

Pink Eye

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>What is color spray
>What is sleep
>What is any spell that can debilitate an enemy
>What is flanking
>What is Outflank
>What is buffs
>What is Freebooter, Bard and Cleric

It's actually surprisingly easy to hit stuff on the lower difficulties. And that is before we factor multi class shenanigans.
 

Sykar

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But she is extremely strong even if you completely ignore her Rogue side and just level her up as a Wizard. Even if you want to build her as an Arcane Trickster, you don't need to take any more Rogue levels than she already has.

I guess I was thinking along the lines of "she'll always be weaker as a straight wizard than a PC that never took a rogue level" but I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean you can't do it, so fair enough.

Eh, that again. Loss of a single caster level is more then made up by the insane utility AND damage output she brings to the table as a Trickster. IMO a Trickster is a straight upgrade to the wizard kit.

It is an upgrade in terms of damage potential and rogue utilities at the expense of extra feats, stronger wizard abilities and reaching important spell levels a level earlier.
 

Desiderius

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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Am I looking in the wrong place?

There's an eye button on the bottom left for inspect. Just leave it on. Now when you mouse over mods you'll see their stats.

To stay in Sneak Attack range easily on Octavia, use a Javelin:

Octavia accuracy.jpg


It has a range of 30ft.

Or you could just use that Weapon Finesse:

OctaviaDuelistCharge.jpg
 

Haplo

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But she is extremely strong even if you completely ignore her Rogue side and just level her up as a Wizard. Even if you want to build her as an Arcane Trickster, you don't need to take any more Rogue levels than she already has.

I guess I was thinking along the lines of "she'll always be weaker as a straight wizard than a PC that never took a rogue level" but I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean you can't do it, so fair enough.

Eh, that again. Loss of a single caster level is more then made up by the insane utility AND damage output she brings to the table as a Trickster. IMO a Trickster is a straight upgrade to the wizard kit.

It is an upgrade in terms of damage potential and rogue utilities at the expense of extra feats, stronger wizard abilities and reaching important spell levels a level earlier.

What stronger Wizard abilities? Specialization bonuses? That is like the only thing you're missing. And only noticeable drawback is that 1 level slower spell progression (same as sorc). Loss of caster level is more than made up by hugely increased damage dice - so it ends up a huge profit, not a loss.
 

Haplo

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Why in the nine hells wouldn't you?

Since you don't seem capable of reading the exchange due to some kind of disability, I'll summarize. People were discussing not multi-classing anyone during the entire game and I said you pretty much have to muilti-class Octavia or ignore her. Then someone said she's still good as a straight Wizard, even with losing a level to rogue. Then I said I just thought she'd always be behind a wizard PC, but I guess you could still do it, so fair enough. Then you charged in a couple pages later saying BUT ARKANE TRICKSTER like a dipshit.

Because I absolutely detest mentions that Octavia is in any way worse then a pure wizard, when in fact she's a straight upgrade.
 

Sykar

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Why in the nine hells wouldn't you?

Since you don't seem capable of reading the exchange due to some kind of disability, I'll summarize. People were discussing not multi-classing anyone during the entire game and I said you pretty much have to muilti-class Octavia or ignore her. Then someone said she's still good as a straight Wizard, even with losing a level to rogue. Then I said I just thought she'd always be behind a wizard PC, but I guess you could still do it, so fair enough. Then you charged in a couple pages later saying BUT ARKANE TRICKSTER like a dipshit.

Because I absolutely detest mentions that Octavia is in any way worse then a pure wizard, when in fact she's a straight upgrade.

Her specialization bonus become irrelevant though which at 20 would be +5 to two attributes of her choosing. She loses effectively 5 feats. 3 bonus feats from wizard progression and the need to go for PBS and Precise Shot since AT wants and needs ranged touch attacks. You probably want weapon focus for rays as well. That does not leave much for good feats like Toughness, II, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus and spell penetration.
 

NJClaw

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Why in the nine hells wouldn't you?

Since you don't seem capable of reading the exchange due to some kind of disability, I'll summarize. People were discussing not multi-classing anyone during the entire game and I said you pretty much have to muilti-class Octavia or ignore her. Then someone said she's still good as a straight Wizard, even with losing a level to rogue. Then I said I just thought she'd always be behind a wizard PC, but I guess you could still do it, so fair enough. Then you charged in a couple pages later saying BUT ARKANE TRICKSTER like a dipshit.

Because I absolutely detest mentions that Octavia is in any way worse then a pure wizard, when in fact she's a straight upgrade.

Her specialization bonus become irrelevant though which at 20 would be +5 to two attributes of her choosing. She loses effectively 5 feats. 3 bonus feats from wizard progression and the need to go for PBS and Precise Shot since AT wants and needs ranged touch attacks. You probably want weapon focus for rays as well. That does not leave much for good feats like Toughness, II, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus and spell penetration.
Isn't her specialization bonus irrelevant by default? It's a very small enhancement bonus, so it's always going to get trumped by magic items: +2 at level 5 can be useful to use your items for other characters, but by level 10 a +3 is laughable, since you are swimming in +4 items (or more). A +4 by level 15 is a joke (and not even a funny one).

I wouldn't say that Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot are "wasted" feats. I take them on almost all my ranged arcane spellcaster and usually I have enough room to take all the Spell Focus I want.
 

Sykar

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Why in the nine hells wouldn't you?

Since you don't seem capable of reading the exchange due to some kind of disability, I'll summarize. People were discussing not multi-classing anyone during the entire game and I said you pretty much have to muilti-class Octavia or ignore her. Then someone said she's still good as a straight Wizard, even with losing a level to rogue. Then I said I just thought she'd always be behind a wizard PC, but I guess you could still do it, so fair enough. Then you charged in a couple pages later saying BUT ARKANE TRICKSTER like a dipshit.

Because I absolutely detest mentions that Octavia is in any way worse then a pure wizard, when in fact she's a straight upgrade.

Her specialization bonus become irrelevant though which at 20 would be +5 to two attributes of her choosing. She loses effectively 5 feats. 3 bonus feats from wizard progression and the need to go for PBS and Precise Shot since AT wants and needs ranged touch attacks. You probably want weapon focus for rays as well. That does not leave much for good feats like Toughness, II, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus and spell penetration.
Isn't her specialization bonus irrelevant by default? It's a very small enhancement bonus, so it's always going to get trumped by magic items: +2 at level 5 can be useful to use your items for other characters, but by level 10 a +3 is laughable, since you are swimming in +4 items (or more). A +4 by level 15 is a joke (and not even a funny one).

I wouldn't say that Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot are "wasted" feats. I take them on almost all my ranged arcane spellcaster and usually I have enough room to take all the Spell Focus I want.

The bonus puts her from 17 to 18 dex at start which makes a small but noticable difference in terms of to hit, initiative and skill usage. What falls off is TK fist but it is still a decent spell early on. AT ironically though keeps it relevant since it applies SA damage bonus to it which is why Transmuter is not as bad of specialization as people want to make it out to be. The only other school who has such a power where SA applies is Conjurer and Acid Dart. Evo missle has to wait until level 14 again. The level 8 ability is not very useful in general though.
Later you can put those +5 to for example charisma and willpower. In essence it allows you to gear for something different for that attribute.At worst you go +5 strength and +5 wisdom just for will save bonus and carry capacity. This is nothing to sneeze at. At 20 you can justify putting that last point into wisdom and get effectively +3 will saves and +3 to perception.
PBS and PS are wasted on a pure wizard. There are so many alternatives to touch spell attacks that you really do not have to bother. Furthermore you can use a wand of True Strike in case you really need to get one off on those rare occasions. AT essentially specializes in ranged touch attack spells since those are the only spells which apply SA until you get level 10 AT which does not happen until level 14. Ergo PBS and PS are vital on an AT and weapon focus ray is a solid though not necessarily needed option.
 
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NJClaw

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Why in the nine hells wouldn't you?

Since you don't seem capable of reading the exchange due to some kind of disability, I'll summarize. People were discussing not multi-classing anyone during the entire game and I said you pretty much have to muilti-class Octavia or ignore her. Then someone said she's still good as a straight Wizard, even with losing a level to rogue. Then I said I just thought she'd always be behind a wizard PC, but I guess you could still do it, so fair enough. Then you charged in a couple pages later saying BUT ARKANE TRICKSTER like a dipshit.

Because I absolutely detest mentions that Octavia is in any way worse then a pure wizard, when in fact she's a straight upgrade.

Her specialization bonus become irrelevant though which at 20 would be +5 to two attributes of her choosing. She loses effectively 5 feats. 3 bonus feats from wizard progression and the need to go for PBS and Precise Shot since AT wants and needs ranged touch attacks. You probably want weapon focus for rays as well. That does not leave much for good feats like Toughness, II, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus and spell penetration.
Isn't her specialization bonus irrelevant by default? It's a very small enhancement bonus, so it's always going to get trumped by magic items: +2 at level 5 can be useful to use your items for other characters, but by level 10 a +3 is laughable, since you are swimming in +4 items (or more). A +4 by level 15 is a joke (and not even a funny one).

I wouldn't say that Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot are "wasted" feats. I take them on almost all my ranged arcane spellcaster and usually I have enough room to take all the Spell Focus I want.

The bonus puts her from 17 to 18 dex at start which makes a small but noticable difference in terms of to hit, initiative and skill usage. What falls off is TK fist but it is still a decent spell early on.
Later you can put those +5 to for example charisma and willpower. In essence it allows you to gear for something different for that attribute.At worst you go +5 strength and +5 wisdom just for will save bonus and carry capacity. This is nothing to sneeze at. At 20 you can justify putting that last point into wisdom and get effectively +3 will saves and +3 to perception.
PBS and PS are wasted on a pure wizard. There are so many alternatives to touch spell attacks that you really do not have to bother. Furthermore you can use a wand of True Strike in case you really need to get one off on those rare occasions. AT essentially specializes in ranged touch attack spells since those are the only spells which apply SA until you get level 10 AT which does not happen until level 14. Ergo PBS and PS are vital on an AT and weapon focus ray is a solid though not necessarily needed option.
No, you can't. The bonus applies only to physical abilities. The game throws belts of physical flow/perfection at you, so the only real possible benefit of that class feature is to increase your carrying capacity... and that really isn't worth it, is it? I guess you can also sustain more Strength damage, but why would you put Octavia in melee range with mandragora swarms or ghosts?

You say that PBS and PS are wasted feats, but your suggestion of a good feat for Octavia is what? Toughness? I mean HP are nice, sure, but how many times in the entire game is your back line Wizard going to get targeted by the enemies? Three? Four? Also, I love taking Spell Focus, but it's a +1, nothing more. Are you really going to notice a +1 THAT much?

How is Weapon Focus a "solid" option? It's a +1 to hit, it's garbage. If I'm not planning on taking Dazzling Display, I'm not even considering taking Weapon Focus.
 
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Sykar

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Why in the nine hells wouldn't you?

Since you don't seem capable of reading the exchange due to some kind of disability, I'll summarize. People were discussing not multi-classing anyone during the entire game and I said you pretty much have to muilti-class Octavia or ignore her. Then someone said she's still good as a straight Wizard, even with losing a level to rogue. Then I said I just thought she'd always be behind a wizard PC, but I guess you could still do it, so fair enough. Then you charged in a couple pages later saying BUT ARKANE TRICKSTER like a dipshit.

Because I absolutely detest mentions that Octavia is in any way worse then a pure wizard, when in fact she's a straight upgrade.

Her specialization bonus become irrelevant though which at 20 would be +5 to two attributes of her choosing. She loses effectively 5 feats. 3 bonus feats from wizard progression and the need to go for PBS and Precise Shot since AT wants and needs ranged touch attacks. You probably want weapon focus for rays as well. That does not leave much for good feats like Toughness, II, Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus and spell penetration.
Isn't her specialization bonus irrelevant by default? It's a very small enhancement bonus, so it's always going to get trumped by magic items: +2 at level 5 can be useful to use your items for other characters, but by level 10 a +3 is laughable, since you are swimming in +4 items (or more). A +4 by level 15 is a joke (and not even a funny one).

I wouldn't say that Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot are "wasted" feats. I take them on almost all my ranged arcane spellcaster and usually I have enough room to take all the Spell Focus I want.

The bonus puts her from 17 to 18 dex at start which makes a small but noticable difference in terms of to hit, initiative and skill usage. What falls off is TK fist but it is still a decent spell early on.
Later you can put those +5 to for example charisma and willpower. In essence it allows you to gear for something different for that attribute.At worst you go +5 strength and +5 wisdom just for will save bonus and carry capacity. This is nothing to sneeze at. At 20 you can justify putting that last point into wisdom and get effectively +3 will saves and +3 to perception.
PBS and PS are wasted on a pure wizard. There are so many alternatives to touch spell attacks that you really do not have to bother. Furthermore you can use a wand of True Strike in case you really need to get one off on those rare occasions. AT essentially specializes in ranged touch attack spells since those are the only spells which apply SA until you get level 10 AT which does not happen until level 14. Ergo PBS and PS are vital on an AT and weapon focus ray is a solid though not necessarily needed option.
No, you can't. The bonus applies only to physical abilities. The game throws belts of physical flow/perfection at you, so the only real possible benefit of that class feature is to increase your carrying capacity... and that really isn't worth it, is it? I guess you can also sustain more Strength damage, but why would you put Octavia in melee range with mandragora swarms or ghosts?

You say that PBS and PS are wasted feats, but your suggestion of a good feat for Octavia is what? Toughness? I mean HP are nice, sure, but how many times in the entire game is your back line Wizard going to get targeted by the enemies? Three? Four? Also, I love taking Spell Focus, but it's a +1, nothing more. Are you really going to notice a +1 THAT much?

How is Weapon Focus a "solid" option? It's a +1 to hit, it's garbage. If I'm not planning on taking Dazzling Display, I'm not even considering taking Weapon Focus.

Ah right, forgot about it only applying to physical attributes. Still not like those belts are thrown at you all game long and you have a lot of companions who all profit from this belt, not just Octavia. Also plenty of other options besides stat increase are available.
Good feats for a general wizard, not AT. For a general wizard, spell focus line gives you +2 DC which you need badly at anything above normal. +2 spell penetration is important unless you go elf. Toughness and II are good selections for anyone whose constituion is 10 or less.
It is +1 to hit on the lowest BAB class. It is not that great on a full BAB class but considering that the best you can achieve is +10 at level 20 that +1 is actually quite decent on such a low BAB class. Other good feats are Agument/Superior Summoning and Spell Specialization. If you use item crafting mods, Create Wondrous item gives you a truck ton of options and less dependency on luck/artisans. Metamagic like Heighten Spell is also worth consideration.
 

NJClaw

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Ah right, forgot about it only applying to physical attributes. Still not like those belts are thrown at you all game long and you have a lot of companions who all profit from this belt, not just Octavia. Also plenty of other options besides stat increase are available.
Maybe we played different games, because I found an inconceivable number of stat increasing belts. You are belt-starved for the first two chapters, then you get enough of them to dress your entire kingdom. I don't remember other belts (I'm sure there are at least a couple of good ones), but are they really worth gimping your character's abilities? If you rely on your transmutation Physical Enhancement bonus, you have +1 to a single ability during levels 1-4, +2 during levels 5-9, +3 during levels 10-14, +4 during levels 15-19 and +5 to two abilities at level 20. Meanwhile, the bonuses you get from magic items are always a couple of points higher (and possibly apply both to Dexterity and Constitution).

Regarding the discussion about feats, yes, there are a lot of good ones, but it's not like the Arcane Trickster doesn't get anything to compensate for those 2 feats that he is going to miss on from not leveling up as a pure Wizard.
 

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