TOEE Rogue class/skills query (+ Bloodlines skill ?).

[Aothan]

right, so after many years of not finding my disc 2 for TOEE I have now acquired another 'copy', as it is the install disc from my original version is presently in the drive..why ? no good reason.

it took a while to sort out a few kinks with the Co8 mod, which I have never tried, but everything is in place and presently running in the background. My enthusiasm for games has diminished over the last year or so, .having just started playing Bloodlines recently and briefly resumed character creation in ToEE, I now know why. Read books, do art, whatever..games are proving to be a lost hope.

anyway, from my last play of ToEE (2 years or more prior) I do recall a few general guidelines. Mainly Clerics are perhaps a little too all-purpose, and a Rogue is of use to acquire treasure.

I will only roll/role one Cleric, but I am not sure what to do about the Rogue. I do not want a pure Rogue in the party, they have always been boring for me, I know weird, and in some ways kind of overpowered too. Anyway, having played NWN and NWN 2 over the last few years I think when multiclassing it is possible for a class skills to match character level max. So in other words, a level 4 Ranger/1 Rogue could have an Open Lock skill equivalent to a level 5 Rogue. Personally I think this is broken, but is it possible to do the same in accordance to the ToEE ruleset ?

either way, any basic completely devoid of spoiler advice to similar ends ? I might not even have a Wizard in this party, or a Fighter. Druids, Rangers and Paladins are my mainstays in d&d computer games, so I am aiming for a similar approach this time through..


Vampire Bloodlines is a good game, I won't add much more the chorus, I am playing through for my first time, so I would really stress that spoilers are completely undesirable.

is there any direct relation besides skill points between Vampire clan and skill levels ? I went through the character quiz at the start and was designated as Gangrel. Nothing wrong with their outlooks and dispositions but why do I look like I'm trying to impersonate the lead singer of Korn ? Nothing all that wrong with Korn either but it is not really what I have in mind. After attempting to make a character I came back to Gangrel anyway..

and finally to my essential query: does research/perception/inspection have much involvement in the game ? A very simple yea or nay would be sufficient, having emphasised these skills whilst also rounding out some basics I did not really get the impression much came from them in the starting area.

 

[Murk]

If I'm not mistaken, your rogue skills would be able to be raised to the full length of a level 1 rogue + a level 4 ranger. That is, open locks is not a ranger's class skill and so the level 4 ranger would only be able to raise it to a maximum of 5 (2 at startup, 1 per level) where-as the rogue could raise it to a max of 4 at startup and 1 per level, meaning 8 at level 5 before any dex/feat bonuses.

So, a ranger 4/rogue 1 should be able to raise their skill up to 4 (rogue starting max) + 4(2 ranger starting max +1 per level) but at the cost of only 8 skill points instead of 2x the cost for the ranger levels as you would raise the skill when you took a level of rogue.

at least, that's what SHOULD happen...

 

[Jinxed]

Yeah, you can pretty much compensate for the lack of rogue skill points just when you take the 1st level of rogue.

I remember once made a gnome rogue/ranger and at some point they were nearly an unkillable death bringing machine. With 2 weapon fighting, ridiculous amounts of dexterity, finesse and crippling strike and sometimes favored enemy. Added bonus of casting longstrider and extended improved invisibility before hand. It was funny to see a little person like that destroy everything.

s there any direct relation besides skill points between Vampire clan and skill levels ? I went through the character quiz at the start and was designated as Gangrel. Nothing wrong with their outlooks and dispositions but why do I look like I'm trying to impersonate the lead singer of Korn ? Nothing all that wrong with Korn either but it is not really what I have in mind. After attempting to make a character I came back to Gangrel anyway..

and finally to my essential query: does research/perception/inspection have much involvement in the game ? A very simple yea or nay would be sufficient, having emphasised these skills whilst also rounding out some basics I did not really get the impression much came from them in the starting area.

I don't think there are any relations between clans except dialog options that don't really lead anywhere. You will however get brownie points for being a tremere or ventrue with the prince, the latter will cause you to get a house earlier and bonus cash if you suck up to him.

When it comes to the skills I don't remember exactly, but none of these are that important. Well, you need perception to hack and shoot properly IIRC. Inspection is totally useless, it makes hard to see items glow in the dark, only remotely useful in your first playthrough. Research might effect hack as well, when you hover over these skills they should highlight what they effect on your character sheet, but as far as actual effect on dialog options or any other major things they are quite dead.

 

[Sodomy]

With Co8, you WILL need a nearly pure rogue. I'd take a level of fighter once you hit level 7 or so, and that's it. Elven rogue is an excellent combination, especially if you have 2 melee capable characters to get the flank so that the rogue can use his racial longbow proficiency on sneak attacks. Bringing a rogue into melee is, in most situations, suicide without spring attack.

Generally, my parties look something like:
Fighter/Barbarian/2-weapon Ranger
Cleric/Druid (I prefer a cleric for the greater melee ability)
Rogue
Bard
Sorceror/Wizard

The party I managed an ironman completion with was a Chaotic Good:
Half-Orc Barbarian
Dwarf Cleric
Elf Rogue
Human Sorceror
Elf Wizard

Certain midgame fighs will be very difficult without Fireball, so you need a Wizard or Sorceror (I personally favor Sorcerors). ToEE druids are a bad deal, as many Druid class skills aren't supported, and some of the Druid class feats don't work properly. A ToEE party with no melee skills is a recepie for repeated death. Paladins fall VERY easily in ToEE.

 

[Murk]

using Co8's level cap remover i was able to beat the game using 1 cleric with the war domain, i forget which god i took. i did use the "added spells" though, i was mostly stocking heals and some situational protections.

 

[Norfleet]

With Co8, you WILL need a nearly pure rogue. I'd take a level of fighter once you hit level 7 or so, and that's it. Elven rogue is an excellent combination, especially if you have 2 melee capable characters to get the flank so that the rogue can use his racial longbow proficiency on sneak attacks. Bringing a rogue into melee is, in most situations, suicide without spring attack.

Not true: You can use your stealth skills to position your party in strike position before combat even starts, then manually activate combat and arrange your party in Alpha Strike order. This way your entire party will perform a contiguous move before the opposing force does (and the moves will remain contiguous in a you-go-they-go order instead of total anarchy), and more importantly, all of you will strike first before a single enemy moves, so rogues will all get sneak attacks, and wizards can drop clean AOEs. With a party of mostly offensive casters and rogues, the entire core of the opposing force will be down before they ever get to even make a move, leaving you to mop up the few mooks that escaped the initial holocaust.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Research can be very useful, but I wouldn't focus on it on my first playthrough. You get way more mileage out of it if you know what skill books are in the game in advance.

 

[Ogg]

As for inspection and perception, they aren't of much use. Don't waste skill points with those.

 

[Jinxed]

Always keep your rogue invisible, preferably with extended improved invisibility, it can last about 30 rounds. fighting can get quite enjoyable with flanking, being invisible, and having a a better movement rate from a level of barbarian or longstrider allows you to choose your foe easily.