Value of visuals

[Vibalist]

Or can it

Yeah, looks cool. But still not even close to the artstyle of the original. Just look at the original MI2 screens and compare them to this mod. The original graphics have a lot more "soul", for lack of a better word.

I thought it looked amazing and actually captured the soul of Monkey Island. Or maybe it was just the music that made me feel so.

 

[St. Toxic]

A 2D flightsim would inevitably have to be far more simplistic than a 3D one.

Ironically, flight-sims still use alot of 2d texture-planes in fleshing out their enormous enviroments.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

crysis

morrowind

Crysis may be prettier, but I instantly recognize morrowind (because it looks like shit lolo), and I wouldn't recognize crysis. Morrowind has more "soul", alright

Yeah, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact you played the shit out of Morrowind and you couldn't even run Crysis.

Incidentally, I played the shit out of Crysis and I recognized it instantly, while Morrowind looks like... well here are some medieval houses, and a medieval castle, and what looks like a guard.

Yeah, I can see why you think it's unique fucking art design with "soul" allright

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Yeah, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact you played the shit out of Morrowind

This is the key part. Morrowind and Crysis both have their memorable visual moments, but both of those screenshots were particularly dull and generic. Better example would be comparing Morrowind mushroom town against Crysis multi-headed flying dicks in a space ship.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

Yeah, but for, say, graphic adventures and RPGs like Neverwinter Nights 2 or Drakensang, games where the third dimension is never really used gameplay-wise, 2D is a much better choice.

That probably has more to do with developers being worried about getting their heads stuck tight in the arse of convention right from the start. There's more than mechanics though, I mean, this being a thread about presentation, that should be obvious. But apparently, it isn't. Using a camera as a storytelling device is likely a pretty challenging thing to do in 2D, and a pretty expensive one at that. Bioware are hardly still pulling the same isometric stick-figure tricks they used to perform some odd ten years ago. And likewise, Telltale games are one of the few adventure game developers to delve into the realms of fluid cinematography at all, this being in a genre that's touted to be rooted in storytelling no less.

Not going into this old 2d vs debate again, it's tiring. It's tiring because the answer is simple: Everything has a strength. And a weakness. It all depends entirelly what one's trying to do with a game.

A perfect example of how to combine 2D with 3D in order to get the best out of both worlds.

Meh, this has nothing on Tiller art except for pixel perfection, which is useless. Reminds me a bit of all the other 3Ds max 2.5D games out there - at least around the edgier spots it has a bit of that generic "rendering" look touting to be splendid art direction. There are realtime environments that look spicier than all of this. Mind, it's a good looking game! And it's super impressive considering what small a team is behind the game. I never got why its visuals are praised to heavens and back though, except that you can make out every single crack in every single cobblestone.

As a further ado, it's a bit of an irony in general that people are defending the merits of 2D art in times when most 2d games look as generic as they often do. The best artists of this industry are working on 3d games, naturally.

I thought it looked amazing and actually captured the soul of Monkey Island.

The look of Dread's ship and the interiors of the voodoo shack are absolutely nailed by this demonstration. But then all the texture work is more or less taken straight out of MI2 if I'm not mistaken. It's another example that goes to show that it's not 3d being at fault if your game looks samey. It's never the tool. It's the artist.

so, FPS's, of course. But once you've seen Doom, you've more or less seen FPS itself, so there's not much variation in pure FPS regarding gameplay.

I'm not living in 1995. In my 2009 World, once people stopped cloning Doom again and again and again, snapped out of it, took the basic format and ran with, it was only a matter of time since narrative experiences a la Half Life, deadly realistic infantry simulators like Flashpoint or multiplayer battlefields like the Battlefield series emerged. That's quite a healthy bunch of different games, concepts and experiences, all sharing the same core mechanics if you ask me. And seeing the odd retro throwbacks like Painkiller, they're far from everything there is.

 

[St. Toxic]

Yeah, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact you played the shit out of Morrowind and you couldn't even run Crysis.

Incidentally, I played the shit out of Crysis and I recognized it instantly, while Morrowind looks like... well here are some medieval houses, and a medieval castle, and what looks like a guard.

To be fair, I ran Crysis with all the bells and dongs enabled and it never once "wowed" me with its visuals, the way many less technologically advanced titles have done over the years. Though I played it for a longer period of time than I was willing to throw on Morrowind and despite the fact that I personally think Morrowind looks butt ugly, now as it did the day it was released, I'm willing to admit that Morrowind seems to have its ass on the ball moreso than Crysis when it comes to art direction.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Art direction does not equal how good the graphics are.

Again, just because your favorite games happen to be 2D does not mean 2D is better.

 

[ghostdog]

I never said that you can't make 3D games artsy, though. It is possible to get a unique look in 3D. It's possible to make it good and awe-inspiring. Morrowind, despite its technologically very outdated and, partly, plain ugly graphics, it has amazing art design that makes the world feel alive and real. Most modern games, despite their great technolgy, don't manage to do this because the art design lacks a certain "soul".

Here are some screenshots from a recently released adventure game that really gripped me and reminded me of the great adventures of the past. That game managed to combine 3D and 2D graphics to incredible effect:

A "recently released" adventure game ? WFT Jarl, I just went through the damn thread to find it's name. which game is this ?

 

[JarlFrank]

I never said that you can't make 3D games artsy, though. It is possible to get a unique look in 3D. It's possible to make it good and awe-inspiring. Morrowind, despite its technologically very outdated and, partly, plain ugly graphics, it has amazing art design that makes the world feel alive and real. Most modern games, despite their great technolgy, don't manage to do this because the art design lacks a certain "soul".

Here are some screenshots from a recently released adventure game that really gripped me and reminded me of the great adventures of the past. That game managed to combine 3D and 2D graphics to incredible effect:

A "recently released" adventure game ? WFT Jarl, I just went through the damn thread to find it's name. which game is this ?

The Book of Unwritten Tales. There's no English version yet, but they're working on one. If you speak German, get it now, it's really fucking awesome.

 

[Joe Krow]

The graphics should be realistic enough to create visual interest but abstracted enough to convey all the required game-play information. The problem is not the level of graphical detail, it is the inability to incorporate abstract game mechanics while maintaining that level of realism. For instance, I'd love to see a photo-realistic top down perspective, a kind of Civ 4/Ultima 4 hybrid, but I admit the screen shots wouldn't be as enticing for the casual set.

 

[piydek]

JarlFrank, I've heard about "The book of unwritten tales" from you in this topic - didn't know about its existence previously. So, I'm playing it now and i agree that it's so very charming indeed. I've just started actually but i can already see the sensibility behind the game. Very good. I hope it gets recognition it deserves. Somehow i feel games like these aren't really popular these days.

Oh yes, the graphics are kickass too . And my old GF6800gs runs it perfectly.

So, thanks!

 

[The Exar]

The Book of Unwritten Tales already has a fan-made English patch released. I haven't tested it yet, but: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=O7072KUD

 

[denizsi]

As a technofetishist, I appreciate how Crysis looks (not to mention that it has a matchingly good and consistent art direction and world design, so despite the shallow gameplay, I find that the game excels at what it aims to accomplish graphically), and I often find myself awed to a degree by latest shader tricks and whatnot in latest games. Yes, I certainly like stopping once in a while and looking at a wall or something. Whenever that happens, I feel like there's a sweet spot the game's rubbing in my brain. It really is idiotic in a way. I think I've developed the necessary empathic skills over time to understand masses of morons out there.

Also strange is that when I read Garret write graphics to be about as important as sound and interface, I felt like that sweet spot (rotting parts of my brain, perhaps) had strong objections. Hopefully, I'm not totally a lost case as I felt better reading the following posts about higher importance of sound.

 

[poocolator]

Incidentally, I played the shit out of Crysis and I recognized it instantly, while Morrowind looks like... well here are some medieval houses, and a medieval castle, and what looks like a guard.

Yeah, I can see why you think it's unique fucking art design with "soul" allright

herp derp
have you even played Morrowind or did it come out too long before you stopped wearing diapers?

 

[Armacalypse]

Crysis is beautiful without needing much art design, because it took something beautiful from the real world (nature) and tried to replicate it. Most art still doesn't beat a nice sunset on a tropical island, or a waterfall near a forest clearing. Art doesn't need to be abstract to look good.

Also, what 3D has over 2D from a pure visual perspective is movement, camera movement to be precise. I think most of the prerendered backgrounds in old games would look better if they were rendered real time on a good computer, because then they wouldn't be static anymore.

Why would 3D have gameplay benefits? It has as many gameplay losses if i'm concerned.

And look at this recent 2D environment. 3D just can't do that:

I'm going to ignore your retarded comments about 3D not having gameplay benefits and 3D having as many "gameplay losses" as it has benefits (which you said doesn't exist). Though I think that the scene in the picture is possible today or in the near future, and would only require someone with enough artistic talent, time and access to the game engines sadly today only available to developers who make sci-fi shooters. The extra time and skill invested compared to just making that scene in the screenshot would probably be worth it considering that the scene would be moving.

Those pictures of Morrowind look good. But so do these:

And because it is in 3D, it can be fully in motion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6qFOxdmYh8

The graphics can be tweaked in many ways by mods that change the lighting etc:
http://www.crymod.com/uploads/mediapool/naturalmod2.jpg
http://www.crymod.com/uploads/mediapool ... lmod2a.jpg
http://www.crymod.com/uploads/mediapool ... lmod2b.jpg
http://www.crymod.com/uploads/mediapool/naturalmod1.jpg
http://www.crymod.com/uploads/mediapool ... lmod1a.jpg
http://www.crymod.com/uploads/mediapool ... lmod1b.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z88/ ... WallSS.jpg
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x264 ... /00006.jpg
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x264 ... /00014.jpg
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x264 ... 05copy.jpg
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x264 ... /00012.jpg
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x264 ... 06copy.jpg

 

[poocolator]

Meh. Jungle simulators be damned; I prefer a blocky world full of personality.